Let's talk about magic.

[Aetrion]

Lately I've sort of increasingly felt that roleplaying games are just getting lazy with the way they do magic, and the inclusion of magic for classes or plot devices really just boils down to handwaving all logic and plotholes by saying "A wizard did it".

It's basically just become standard to include a magic class in every single game because it's a convenient explanation for why someone can put health points back as fast as you can chop them off, or why being really smart somehow translates into incredible combat prowess.

One of the biggest things that just annoys the hell out of me in roleplaying games is that magic simply gets tied to intelligence, but they never explain why intelligence is what allows you to hurl fireballs. I mean sure, they give you lines like "oh, it's years of studies of complex formulae" bla bla. There is never any kind of system in place that makes using magic actually feel like a task that requires a powerful intellect or great knowledge, or strong willpower. Ultimately you always just end up hitting a button to make all sorts of miracles spring from your hands without ever feeling like you actually had to study up on ancient lore or do any kind of abstract thinking to get to that place. Neither the player nor the character get to actually be overly clever, they are just given an attack that mechanically links back to your clever points.

Magic is just letting me down in games lately. I used to really love playing as a spellcaster, because I like playing as an intellectual character, but there are very few games that actually give you the chance to feel like you're solving your problems with brains. All they do is give you some sparkly magic effects that make a questionable link between being smart and still just destroying everything in your way.


Anyone know any games that do this better? I want to play a game where if you choose to go down the path of magic you have to really learn about mystical phenomena and the lore of the world, rather than just investing points in being smart and then hit the fireball button instead of the smash button.

Anyone have thoughts on systems that could make this distinction more interesting in games? I like how for example in Mount and Blade there isn't any magic, but playing a smart character still feels like it has distinct advantages.

 

[DoPo]

Anyone know any games that do this better? I want to play a game where if you choose to go down the path of magic you have to really learn about mystical phenomena and the lore of the world, rather than just investing points in being smart and then hit the fireball button instead of the smash button.

To an extent, here are some suggestions:

Magicka - one of the best magic systems I've used. You can mix and match magical elements (water, air, life, etc), each providing different mechanics to the mix - Fire leaves a DOT, while Earth throws a big projectile - combining the two gives you something that could described as a fireball. Even then, the blast/DOT versus raw impact force will depend on how you balance the Fire/Earth portion of the spell, respectively. And you combine spells on the fly, too.

It doesn't really go in deep into what magic is, really, and it's quite action focused (with a lot of hilarity to be had from mishandled spells) and overall it's quite light hearted but it's a really good system. The magic feels powerful as you can cause your enemies to explode in variety of was. You're not really shielded from that as well. It's pretty much a take on "what would happen if the rampant magic is let loose in a bunch of clueless mages" - and the results are spectacular - it's dangerous enough to sling spells by yourself but any time more than one mage is in the same place, havoc ensues. That also includes you playing with friends, mind you.

Lichdom: Batllemage - this game I really like, too - the concept behind the game is a bit similar to Magicka, where it allows you to build spells by yourself and it also gives you big freedom in casting them. But the two games differ in execution - Lichdom is more grounded with it both allowing you to cast some really impressive effects but it's also not as wild as Magicka. Lichdom actually plays a bit like first person Diablo game - the spellcrafting portion lets you essentially create your equipment - sigils power your abilities and patterns shape them into attacks or defence. Killing enemies rewards you with more of these spell components, similar to how in an ARPG game you'll get loot.

The game is a bit liner in nature and the spellcrafting I found to be slightly more tedious than it needed to be but overall, I relly liked it. The magic system may take a bit of mastering and it is a bit formulaic but really punchy and gives you that feeling of being a powerful mage without limits. Unfortunately, this game also doesn't delve much into how magic works. Well, not as much as it could, at least.

Arx Fatalis this one is older but I really think this game does magic the best. It should, in fact, satisfy all your criteria.
- First of all, the way you cast magic is by literally drawing runes on your screen - different combinations of runes give different results. It's not really "mix and match" the way, say, Magicka does it, since the spells do have preset "formulas" - for example, Fireball is using the runes Aam, Yok, and Taar, drawn in that order. What's more, you don't just pause time to do it at your leisure - you have to do it in real time. Easy if you want to do it out of combat, a tad hectic to do it during, however. What I find really awesome that enemy mages also do it - when I first found a Lich, I was quite impressed to see it drawing the runes in front of my eyes before I was blasted to bits.
- On the other hand, we get to the second thing about the magic system - even though the list of spells is fixed, you do need to find what the "recipes" are, still the cool thing is that the recipes make sense - the three runes for Fireball each have a meaning - they are, respectively, "create", "fire" and "projectile". If you were to cast Aam, Taar (create projectile) that creates a basic magic missle spell, while Aam, Yok (create fire) lights all flammable stuff (it's torches and bonfires - not enemies), and as a final example, Aam, Yok, Spacium (create fire space) lights up a firewall in front of you.
- Intelligence is, as per usual, the "magic stat", however, it does make sense again - higher intelligence, allows you to know more runes and it also allows you to cast higher level spells, by the simple way of allowing higher number of runes combination (so, if you can only combine two runes, you can't cast Fireball, or Firewall, for example). It also helps with another thing - remembering spells. You could, actually, pre-cast some spells and leave hanging until you release them - say, you could pre-cast 3 fireballs and use them up in battle. Or you could hold 3 different spells just in case you need them. You can't hold a lot of pre-cast spells, but Intelligence helps increase the number at least. You're not going to turn into a wizard from D&D, however - you can hold something like 5 spells at most, if I recall - you can, and probably would, still run out in a fight, but at least you'll have an edge.

Arx Fatalis if one of my most loved games. It's, sadly, a bit of a rough gem but I think it's a really, really ambitious game. Shame it never got a sequel. It is made by the studio that gave us Dishonored - it was their first game.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I can only share your disappointment. I don't remember the last game where the first spell my mage learned wasn't a fireball.

 

[The Madman]

Arx Fatalis if one of my most loved games. It's, sadly, a bit of a rough gem but I think it's a really, really ambitious game. Shame it never got a sequel. It is made by the studio that gave us Dishonored - it was their first game.

If you've never tried it play Dark Messiah of Might & Magic, also by Arkane and shares a lot of similarities to between Arx Fatalis and Dishonored.

Arkane Studios is one of those smaller developers I don't think get nearly the praise they deserve. Dishonored was their first big break, but all three of the games they've made so far have been consistently entertaining and unique in one way or another.

 

[Hairless Mammoth]

Edit: fixed some funny typos

I've always hated the "intelligence" stat being connected solely to magic use. From a story perspective, there has been plenty of games where the characters with lower INT are nearly indistinguishable in intellect (or actually smarter) from the characters with a much high INT stat. Intelligence, if it is used as a quantifiable stat, should be used for every skill, magic or not, since the definition of intelligence is "the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills." A master swordsman should be just as well learned in his art and its tactics as the black mage is with her spells and their strategic value. When the player has almost complete control over a character's/party's strategies and the game follows the definition closely, it would be useless as a combat stat, anyways. Really, "willpower" or "knowledge" work better in its place.

I would also like to see more games where a magic user's abilities reflected their apparently high intellect (or the story just paints them as people with a wide range of brainpower, from doofuses to geniuses, but with a natural talent for magic). It never jived with me how the Elder Scrolls magic made you go to an altar to make new spells, when you should just be able to say "let's put more oomph into the fireball spell from now on." If your character (or rather you) overestimates their current magic limits and runs out of magic power too fast, that's a mistake to learn from. Extra effects and more power than you can handle are what you shouldn't be able to pull out of thin air.

 

[Evil Smurf]

And here was me all excited for a thread about Magic: the Gathering. Thanks OP.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke. I'd like a game based on tech so advanced it's like magic.

 

[DoPo]

Arx Fatalis if one of my most loved games. It's, sadly, a bit of a rough gem but I think it's a really, really ambitious game. Shame it never got a sequel. It is made by the studio that gave us Dishonored - it was their first game.

If you've never tried it play Dark Messiah of Might & Magic, also by Arkane and shares a lot of similarities to between Arx Fatalis and Dishonored.

Arkane Studios is one of those smaller developers I don't think get nearly the praise they deserve. Dishonored was their first big break, but all three of the games they've made so far have been consistently entertaining and unique in one way or another.

Well, going offtopic but still:
Yes, I've played it. And yes, I agree with you - while Dark Messiah was probably their weakest game and even then, I wouldn't give it that high of a mark overall, I'd still say it's worth playing just because it managed to do stuff no other game had done thus far.

Actually, Lichdom struck me as surprisingly similar to Dark Messiah - it was first person again, sort of similarly linear to a point, and the overall visual style was reminiscent. I don't think it was really intended - most likely coincedental but it's just something I took a note of.

Anyway /offtopic.

 

[Aetrion]

Arx Fatalis is definitely a game that at least tried to make magic a little more involved than just point and click, and by the end of that game I did feel like I had memorized all the essential formulae and even got quick enough to cast some of them mid combat from scratch. Arx Fatalis was supposed to be a spiritual successor to Ultima Underworld, which also does a good job of making you assemble spells from runes and thereby requires some learning and knowledge.

Magicka and Lichdom may be good implementations of being a mage, but those are games that are exclusively about magic. While that's cool it really doesn't have the same weight as good magic implementations in games where you can also be something entirely different.

Dark Messiah is one of my favourite combat systems of all times. The whole physics based combat is a barrel of laughs, and makes you think about the battlefield whether or not you're using magic. The problem with DM is that toward the end of the game most enemies are really only easily defeatable by throwing them into wall spikes and other instant kill environment hazards. Once you hit that point where killing them the basic way isn't really efficient anymore because they just block so well and have so much HP and never stay on the ground long enough for an execute, using the various environment hazards to dispatch them just doesn't feel clever anymore, but just becomes mandatory. Also unfortunately a very short and linear game. In terms of first person combat systems I think Dark Messiah is still better than Skyrim, let alone because the character in it knows how to push someone without having to first inherit a magical legacy passed down by dragons.

 

[DoPo]

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke. I'd like a game based on tech so advanced it's like magic.

Deus Ex is probably the closest I can think of. That, and some heroes like Tinker from Warcraft 3/DotA - just for a quick explanation - Tinker's abilities (for both heroes) are actually just technological stuff - shooting rockets or constructing robotic servants, however, they still use mana to be powered. There are several similar heroes across the genre.

It never jived with me how the Elder Scrolls magic made you go to an altar to make new spells, when you should just be able to say "let's put more oomph into the fireball spell from now on." If your character (or rather you) overestimates their current magic limits and runs out of magic power too fast, that's a mistake to learn from.

Eh, I'd say that this specific scenario may not be a mistake, after all - I could create a spell that just does a big effect at the cost of all or nearly all my magicka and that could be a legitimate thing I want to use, because it's situationally useful.Or I could just create the spell with the intention to use it later on when my magicka pool can handle it. Also, there is potions.

Just as an example - I've created spells that essentially did "freeze this target FOREVER" and they would make sense to cost a bit and be thrown just once - they are just really powerful - "Damage Strength, 10pts over 10 seconds, on Touch/Target" is not usually that costly, but if you tune the ratio to make it faster (all the way to 100pts over 1 second) it does start to cost quite lot. But if you just make the spell cost your total magicka, you should still be fine - it's the only spell you need to cast, really.

 

[infohippie]

Maybe you should try Ars Magica. It's a tabletop RPG focused primarily on mages and has a much more extensive magic system than most. Magic is based around Forms and Techniques, you can think of them as like nouns and verbs. You combine a technique with a form to create a magical effect, and I think you might be able to combine multiple ones together in a chain. It has been a long time since I played it, and it's apparently had two new editions since then, but it is worth looking into and might help satisfy your wish for a more complex magic system to play with.

 

[DoPo]

Arx Fatalis was supposed to be a spiritual successor to Ultima Underworld, which also does a good job of making you assemble spells from runes and thereby requires some learning and knowledge.

I've never played that, so I can't compare, unfortunately.

Magicka and Lichdom may be good implementations of being a mage, but those are games that are exclusively about magic. While that's cool it really doesn't have the same weight as good magic implementations in games where you can also be something entirely different.

True, but I'd still give them points for effort. The other games don't really try as much.

The problem with DM

There are a few problems with DM - none of them insurmountable by themselves, or even together, but still, overall they do have an impact. Playing a mage in particular turned out to be really boring. You don't get much XP in the beginning, so you can't really get many new spells - even if you do, you don't have the mana pool for them, so I spent about half the game throwing those puny flame bolts while investing all my XP into the increased mana. I was then able to at least use them consistently in a fight...well, -ish - there was still a fair amount of running around to let my mana recharge, while I was still working on getting the mana. But still, that's probably the most boring mage play I've seen - using one spell for half the game because you can't otherwise cast the rest. When I was finally able to cast the rest of the spells without that forcing me to run away and wait to recharge my batteries at least the fights did pick up in terms of enjoyment.

 

[DoPo]

Maybe you should try Ars Magica.

Well, if talking PnP RPGs, then there is also Mage - both old (Mage: the Ascension) and new (Mage: the Awakening), both from the people behind Ars Magica. I do like both their approaches to magic

Here is something I wrote a while ago that serves as sort of introduction to them for

Spoiler: spoilered for size

Right, a brief introduction for those unaware - Mage is a gameline set in the World of Darkness setting. You might know of WoD through the PC game Vampire the Masquerade - Bloodlines (and Redemption) - VtM is another gameline set in the WoD. It's...about vampires. Duh. Anyway, the WoD looks and feels like the real world - it's set in modern times and all but it has the supernatural in it, including mages, vampires and other critters. The setting (and all gamelines) were rebooted several years back and they got different subtitles (Vampire: the Requiem is the successor of Masquerade, for example) and somewhat shifted focus but at their core they stayed pretty much the same - supernatural critters do stuff.

So, there are two gamelines here - Mage: the Ascension (from the old WoD) and Mage: the Awakening (from the new WoD) both are good and I like both a lot. I feel they do magic really well for PnP games - the system is flexible, powerful and fun. What I'll be saying mostly applies to both gamelines with very small variations here and there. Using the rules you can create any and all magical effect you can imagine - fireballs, lightning bolts, levitation - those are easy. But anything you can imagine - it can happen - it doesn't need to be a boring video game-like simple effect, mages can control the weather, the thoughts, dive into a person's dreams, scry, melt stone like butter, fix a car with a wave of a hand, stop motion, or indeed, turn kinetic energy into heat and so on and so forth. Mages literally twist reality with their power until their will is done. Every time they do magic.

However, they don't rule the world even though they possess these amazing abilities and here is why - the reality doesn't really like being twisted. Due to...different factors for both gamelines (quite interesting in both cases), magic is dangerous - it bites. It's called Paradox - it's when magic goes wrong Paradox manifestations range from may just twist the spell the mage is casting (affects them instead of an enemy or the like) or make it fizzle out, to larger - the mage may be struck blind for a while or maybe they'll experience the world in fast forward, or their hair could turn white. Really bad Paradox manifestations are...really bad - normally, it's hard to hide them being anything other than supernatural - the mage's skin peeling off, them randomly mutating, or turning magnetic and so on. Larger backlashes even risk something coming to visit the mage - Ascension has Paradox spirits who are in charge of making the mage's existence nightmarish as punishment for violating the universe, while Awakening has malevolent Lovecraftian entities just itching to visit the real world.

Well, there are, in general principle, two types of magic one can employ - vulgar magic, that blatantly disregards and breaks the laws of the universe. Vulgar magic is showy and just says to the physics (and other science fields) "Fuck off for a while, Imma do some shit now" - examples include throwing fireballs, manipulating gravity, conjuring a giant hammer from behind one's back, etc. Very dangerous, and very Paradox prone, especially if ordinary mortals see it (same thing as before - different reasons but quite interesting in each case). As such, vulgar magic is not deployed often. The second type is coincidental - it's more covert and believable - while still supernatural in origin, it's "masked" to appear as if it follows the rules of the universe - instead of throwing a fireball, the mage can make a gas pipe explode, instead of blatantly breaking gravity, the mage can bend it ever so slightly, so it's just a bit harder something to randomly hit him, instead of pulling a hammer from, seemingly, hammer space, the mage can pull a small knife that could conceivably have been in their pocket. Coincidental magic is less error prone but also, more limited in what one can do.

And now, why and how does magic work? I'll go with a short explanation - there is more but it's too much:
- Ascension - the universe doesn't seem to have preset properties. Or didn't, at least - everything was possible and reality was like a taffy in the hands of people, due to the people's Avatars. An Avatar is what allows a mage to reform reality at whim. More training allows them better and stronger control. Still, at some point, due to reasons I won't go into, humanity was slowly convinced to let go of the old superstitions and take a more structured view of the universe. While mages were powerful, the collective subconsciousness of the mundane people solidified reality into the world we see today - the laws of physics were codified, as well as biology and so on. Eventually, people were made to forget magic ever existing. Still, their latent powers reshaped reality itself into rejecting blatant magic. If a mage uses a vulgar spell in front of a normal person, their instinctive subconscious reaction makes reality lash out immediately and even more harshly than it would otherwise. And this is why Paradox is - reality's unnatural wrinkles trying to smooth out themselves.

- Awalening - this one is a bit easier and shorter to explain, especially if you've played Dragon Age: Origins, since the idea is similar. In the days of old, mages were very powerful but also grew very proud as a result. They even decided to build a tower to the heavens and take them for their own. That's sort of how DA:O and MtAw both go but they diverge slightly - in DA:O God bitchlsapped the tower and the mages, the tower exploded and the mages mutated into the darkspawn, also corrupting much of the world. In MtAw, there wasn't a God...or at least he/she/it didn't do anything as drastic. Also, the mages were in Atlantis and magic itself came from the supernal realms, so they were going to become gods if they climbed up there. What happened was the mages squabbled among themselves few won and decided to take everything for themselves - these became known as the Exarchs. However, some other mages weren't really OK with that, so they went up there to kick the Exarchs' asses. However, when they fought, the tower shattered, taking out Atlantis and most magic with it. Also, separated the world from the source of magic. The Exarchs also encased the whole world into a false reality to prevent other mages from trying to bring them down. Think the Matrix, in a way, only the people aren't in pods. The mages who did oppose the Exarchs became known as the Oracles and went on to try and keep people from being swallowed from the false reality, they set up...let's call them "beacons" that act as the red pill for some people. Occasionally a mortal would be drawn to the beacon and given the option to look through the lie and catch glimpses of the real world. These become mages. However, since they still operate in a false reality, the magic is...glitchy - what would have worked in the past is now banned. Essentially, the mages are running hacks and the universe is not recognising them as legit playing. I hope the video game references made it clearer.

So yeah, that's briefly how Mage goes. But there is so much more. For example, both gamelines feature lesser mortal magic that works in a different way and doesn't risk Paradox. It's the mechanical sorcery from this very article - some limited effect that are well codified and can be enacted to get predictable results, albeit some skill is required.

So why do I like Mage? Well, easy - rich lore, very well thought out magic system, that also incorporates real life beliefs and stuff in it, as well as big diversity. Rarely do mages do stuff exactly the same way - there are a variety of paths that end the same. For example, one mage could chant in obscure language while another could draw runes, a third could wave their hands in magical gestures and they could all get the same result. And each would be right for their own. Furthermore, there are those mages that channel their power through technology - there are magical hackers and mad scientists that make death rays or anti gravity boots that wouldn't otherwise work. Those are fun as well. There is such a huge range of stuff in Mage. I love it.

 

[Aetrion]

Yea, the mage experience in Dark Messiah wasn't stellar, you definitely didn't really start feeling like a mage until you were already half way through the game and able to buy mana regeneration as a skill. I thought throwing fireballs at people did feel quite awesome in that game though, watching them get blown around and smacked into things from the blast wave. My favourite spell in it though was the ice spell, because casting it on the floor would make slippery patches that you could use to make enemies slip and fall. Like there is this one point in the game where you go up this huge spiral staircase, and there are a bunch of orcs up top, so you get to the top, 3 orcs charge at you, you ice the first step and run back down the staircase and then watch all your pursuers tumble down the middle and break their necks. That kind of thing is pretty amazing.


And yea, as Whitewolf games go Mage is my favourite, but it's so reliant on a DM to adjudicate magic that you really wouldn't be able to get a good implementation as a video game. The idea of backlash to magic that doesn't trick reality into thinking it could have naturally happened is something I really like. Any system that encourages you to find a solution with minimal effort rather than just throwing all your power at the problem makes you feel like you're using magic intelligently.

 

[sXeth]

The main problem is probably that real-time is the dominant pace nowadays. Its hard to do much complexity in that vein.

You could look at the magic system in the old Ultima games, where you, the player, had to memorize all the individual words of power for various effects, and the combinations to use them in, as well as the reagents you needed on hand (and there were always a few scattered secret spells that weren't in the manuals, which were tomes in their own right).

There's been a few newer games that kind of delve into it. Legend of Grimrock and Magicka both have "dial a spell" systems, that require study and memorization to use with much adept skill.

The other route of course, is to make magic less "I can shoot lasers from my hands" and focus more heavily on effects that use tactics and interactivity to work to full efficiency. Forcing the mage player to apply a more strategic thought, rather then swapping out guns/bows for shooting bolts off your fingers.

 

[Aetrion]

Yea, I generally prefer games where magic isn't just another weapon. The Witcher generally does a pretty good job of this, even though you can only play as a Witcher, the game actually does a pretty decent job of representing the various fantasy archetypes in a way that would be interesting to play all by itself.

The two games I think do this really well are the Witcher and the Mass Effect series.

Especially in The Witcher 2 I think they pulled this off really well. Geralt doesn't have any spells that just do huge amounts of damage on their own. Even the straight up damage sign Igni isn't incredibly strong all by itself, and does damage over time mostly, so that setting enemies on fire with it doesn't immediately neutralize them. You never quite get around having a good sword by your side. The game also very specifically shows that the true magic that sorcerers throw around isn't really useful in a direct fight. Triss casts a spell to turn arrows into butterflies with no prep work and it damn near kills her. If you go with Roche you have to defend sorcerer Deathmold for several minutes for him to create his ghost-shield that takes you through the cursed battlefield. We never see Phillippa cast that spell, but I assume she didn't do it without preparation either, she just finished it before coming to your aid. So, the sorcerers in the Witcher games actually are really powerful, once they get their dome spell that just annihilates anyone trying to get in cranking they are damn near untouchable, but the game even directly mentions that Letho was able to obduct Triss because he knew how to fight a sorceress - knock her out before she ever has time to cast a spell.

The weird thing when I play The Witcher is that I always feel like the game has other character classes, you just can't play as them. Like, you get the big armored knights with a shield, who can hold their own pretty well against Geralt. Some of the named knights in the game that you fight are every bit Geralt's equal without being mutated or having magic, they are just that tough and well armored. You have your archers and crossbowmen, who are quite effective and deadly in the game. Geralt never gets to use any ranged weapons in Witcher 1 and 2 except throwing some knives and bombs. Iorveth is definitely no joke with a bow. Then you have your sorcerers and sorceresses, who also play their role. It feels like the witcher could damn near seemlessly transition into a full MMO type game with classes that can hold their own in a fight, even though you never get to play anything other than a witcher so far.


Mass Effect doesn't really do magic, but Biotics are basically space magic. These are also really well done I think, especially from Mass Effect 2 forward. They again have that implementation of not really doing a lot of damage, so you never quite get around needing to use your gun, they just give you a lot of control over the battlefield. In that sense being a biotic doesn't make you feel like it's simply a replacement for weapons, instead it supplements the basic rules of combat in the game.

 

[Hairless Mammoth]

Eh, I'd say that this specific scenario may not be a mistake, after all - I could create a spell that just does a big effect at the cost of all or nearly all my magicka and that could be a legitimate thing I want to use, because it's situationally useful.Or I could just create the spell with the intention to use it later on when my magicka pool can handle it. Also, there is potions.

Just as an example - I've created spells that essentially did "freeze this target FOREVER" and they would make sense to cost a bit and be thrown just once - they are just really powerful - "Damage Strength, 10pts over 10 seconds, on Touch/Target" is not usually that costly, but if you tune the ratio to make it faster (all the way to 100pts over 1 second) it does start to cost quite lot. But if you just make the spell cost your total magicka, you should still be fine - it's the only spell you need to cast, really.

Situational variety is what I want. By the 20 hour mark of an Elder Scrolls playthrough, I've already made and acquired so many spells that do practically the same thing just with different values (some of which are so weak that I stopped using them altogether). I'd rather be able to go into a menu of spell effects and set up spells such as "x fire damage for x seconds on touch" on hot keys and enter the values in as I set them up (with some sort of favorites system so I'm not doing it every time I rearrange the hot keys).

If I want to cast a super spell that completely depletes my magicka, it at least isn't taking up main menu slots with the other 4 spells with the same effect, the spell can be increased incrementally as desired, and I don't have to go make make a new spell every time it becomes under leveled.[footnote]And to anyone who says "Don't level up in Oblivion," well I do put off leveling and arrange my major skills so it's slower to level up, but I get tired of fighting the same mudcrabs and Dremora Churls with the same iron swords. I have to eventually level up a little to keep the vanilla game looking fresh.[/footnote] (Drain health was my choice, since it was cheap to cast and the target would a corpse by the time it wore off and my magicka would be partially filled since I spent that time laying into that target and the next victim with my sword. I also did the "Charm 100 for 2 sec" on merchants, because hey, it's apparently legal.)

Leveling the spells with you could help the problem,[footnote]Also, I haven't played much Skyrim and not in a long time, so I forget how bad its magic was compared to Oblivion's.[/footnote] but I like the versatility of my system. It gives me the feeling that my mage is gauging his/her attacks for the situation at hand, instead of just blindly following some scroll they read a few days ago. It's kinda like a cook or baker following a recipe and using a larger or smaller amount of each ingredient, because the group they're cooking for is larger/smaller than what the recipe calls for.

 

[Twintix]

(I just realized that you might not be talking about Tabletop RPGs. But if you, perchance, are...)

If it's avaliable in English, the Swedish role-playing game Eon had a pretty good depiction of magic from what I remember.

Basically, the magic you can learn is very specialized. It was in the round I played, anyway. I remember roleplaying as a magic student who started studying thermo magic. Not fire magic, but heat magic. Things like controlling the heat in a person's body and the like.

I didn't play for long enough to get that deep into the lore, and I don't remember the explanations of magic all that much. But I do remember that there was an explanation. So if you could get a hold of it in English, I'd suggest you at least check it out to see if it's what you seek.

 

[Smooth Operator]

So you expect games to have you study lore for 10 years so magic has proper context? Do you imagine anyone playing that game for 10 years then, would you?

Magic is handled about as crudely as fighting with guns, fists, axes, swords, spears, shields, bows, crossbows, flails, armours, monsters,... they make a sensible approximation to the extent the game requires. And that is all there is.
If you want a real world simulator try the real world, it's the closest thing on offer.

 

[BarryMcCociner]

Well, OP there's always going to be a disconnect between you and the on screen character. You move a stick, he twists his head. You press a button, he jumps 6 feet in the air.

You slap down on a hotkey, he draws on his lifetime of study and intimate knowledge of spells to shoot fire from his fingertips.

I'm not getting where you're coming from, to be honest.

Eh, While you can only play a swordsman in The Witcher you do cast a few spells to lift some curses, and those spells will require you to do some actual in-game study in order to not botch them beyond all hell.