Lionhead: "Piracy these days on PC is probably less problematic than second-hand sales on the Xbox"

[Delusibeta]

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you blatant flamebait by Fable 3's lead combat designer, Mike West.

"Piracy these days on PC is probably less problematic than second-hand sales on the Xbox," declared lead Fable III combat designer Mike West. "I've been working on PC games for many years and piracy is always a problem. There are a lot of honest people out there as well, and if they like your game they'll buy it.

"The pirates, whatever you do on whatever system, they will crack it. It might take no time... I think the longest it's taken to happen is two days. Someone will crack it somewhere and there's not much you can do about it.

"It's just a depressing situation we're in that people don't think it's worth spending money on computer games," said West. "What they're doing is making sure there are fewer games coming out in the future and more people out of work, which is a terrible thing.

"Unless you sit down and meet a pirate face to face and have a conversation about what it does, I don't think anything will stop them."

West said that any sales Lionhead make of Fable III on PC this Friday and beyond will be "a bonus".

"For us it's probably a no-lose even with piracy as it is," shrugged West. "But, as I say, second-hand sales cost us more in the long-run than piracy these days."

Most of today's key video game outlets - Game, HMV, Amazon - and even some supermarkets (Tesco) buy and then resell used games from customers. Game publishers have developed a number of initiatives to counter-attack this, the most popular being EA's Online Pass, which bundles a free code with new games that can be redeemed to enable multiplayer or receive downloadable content. Whoever buys the game second hand won't get a free code, which means they'll have to buy a replica online for around $10.

Why do game publishers and developers not like second-hand game sales? Because they don't get any money for the transaction - the shop reaps all the rewards.

Source [http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-05-17-lionhead-pre-owned-worse-than-pc-piracy].

So, here we go: the debate. Is buying used worse than pirating? Debate 1, let's rock...

[Edit for typo. Ahem. >.>]

 

[Ilke]

No, because the former isn't illegal.

It's not a question of legality: a purely legal factor can have more impact than a non-legal one in any domain...

...and not on this one. At least the second-hand copy has been legitimately bought before, and counted as a sale.

 

[Jake the Snake]

How is that even a question. Ok, yes, buying secondhand sucks because none of the money goes to the original publisher, but piracy is a legitimate crime. Piracy is bad kids. Don't be an ass. Buy the games you want.

 

[cookyy2k]

No, because the former isn't illegal.

And we all know if it ain't illegal it can't be harmfull...

Both cases end up with the publisher geting nothing in return.

 

[Cpt Corallis]

I plan on buying L.A. Noire and Brink at retail, because I would like to support the developers of those games. If I ever buy a used copy of a game it is because I cannot readily get a retail copy, and so am forced to buy second hand, this is the same principle I apply to PC games. If it is available from a location where the money will in some way end up with the developer, that is where I will buy it from.

Piracy takes that sale and funding away. So I do not pirate.

 

[juliett_lima]

mmmmm i dunno. I don't usually hear car manufacturers complaining that used car sales are putting them out of work, but that's an entirely different situation. There's no question about the legality of it (it's definitely currently Legal to sell on something you have bought) - unless game sales get reclassified as renting intellectual property or something. . . like the way the right to put on a show is granted by the author.

Speaking in terms of ethics and long-term planning though, I think yeah there's a problem with used game sales, but I don't think the ethical concerns are as bad as piracy. Personally I don't go for either.

 

[cookyy2k]

If it is available from a location where the money will in some way end up with the developer, that is where I will buy it from.

Piracy takes that sale and funding away. So I do not pirate.

Probl;em is these second hand sales rarely if atall actually pay anything to the publisher, the game outlet gets all the money.

 

[Pearwood]

It's nice these people think that illegal actions are better than completely legal ones. I guess for those of you wondering if there's a situation where piracy is justified this is as close as you'll get, the designers themselves are saying they'd prefer it to you buying the game for a reasonable price...

Not that I'm encouraging piracy, I'm just pointing out the obvious flaw in this ridiculous argument.

 

[Cpt Corallis]

If it is available from a location where the money will in some way end up with the developer, that is where I will buy it from.

Piracy takes that sale and funding away. So I do not pirate.

Probl;em is these second hand sales rarely if atall actually pay anything to the publisher, the game outlet gets all the money.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, sorry. When I said that what I meant was buying it maybe from an online store like amazon, buying an unopened copy, rather than a preowned copy, even if it costs more. This way the developer should end up with a registered sale and some profit.

 

[cookyy2k]

It's nice these people think that illegal actions are better than completely legal ones. I guess for those of you wondering if there's a situation where piracy is justified this is as close as you'll get, the designers themselves are saying they'd prefer it to you buying the game for a reasonable price...

Not that I'm encouraging piracy, I'm just pointing out the obvious flaw in this ridiculous argument.

I'd say each is as bad as the other as far as the publisher making money goes. difference is in piracy it's the person doing it that's wrong but in second hand retail it's the game shops, if every shop that sold second hand games gave 10% of the sale price to the publisher of that game it'd be a whole load better. I know that someone has already bought it and that it's theirs to sell and why should they pay anything so we're going to see a huge rise in things such as project $10.

 

[similar.squirrel]

I would prefer to outright steal than give to a corporation that's depriving developers of money.
Having said that, I don't pirate. I've downloaded a grand total of one album illegally, then promptly deleted it because it made me feel dirty somehow.

 

[MasterV]

Oh dear. Here we go again. Pirating is illegal. End of story. Second-hand purchases are not and no, they are not bad. If developers lose money from them then, tough luck, the market isn't gonna change because they ***** when their mediocre games are sold by the original buyers. Make better gamesand people are more likely to not sell them. Simple, really.

 

[RuralGamer]

Perhaps it financially is a problem, but obviously its legal and piracy isn't. I think one of the key issues with second hand sales is the sheer speed at which a game can pass through several owners who buy it, play it then sell it to a retailer who restarts the process; simply put; there were second hand copies of Mass Effect 2 and Call of Duty: Black Ops in my local Gamestation less than two day after they came out.
Say a game gets resold five times and originally was sold to the shop for £20 before the fifth owner decides they like it so much and keep it; that's potentially £80 they've lost because they won't receive further orders for it till someone buys and keeps it.
Of course piracy is a much worse problem on the PC as one person cracking it means that an almost infinite number of people can have it until they find a way to stop it being pirated. Indeed it is at least slightly harder to pirate console games and get away with it, but I can imagine that this second-hand sales market that has sprung up in the last few years is hurting their pockets.
Perhaps if more games had better replay value, then this wouldn't be as much of a problem.

 

[Ranorak]

Well, then make your game so that I don't want to give it up.
Give it a proper reply value.
Some nice multiplayer?
Lots of endings achieved by different game paths.
Instead of that boring good play through/bad play through that is exactly the same only the bandits are now shaped like cops.

Not to mention, If I sold a video game, chances are pretty big I'd buy a new one with that money.

 

[Joccaren]

If developers supported us down here in Aus more, maybe I'd buy more of their games closer to release date and not six months down the track when they're one fifth of the price.

In all reality, whatever is losing more money for the business is worse for the business, whichever is costing more money for the consumer is worse for the consumer. In this case, apparently second hand sales are worse than piracy for both the developer and the consumer (seeing as the consumer still has to pay money over torrenting or w/e). However, were more people to torrent, that would become a bigger problem for game developers (as contrary to what this guy might believe, a large number of people buy the PC version of the game instead of torrenting to support the game)

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

we're going to see a huge rise in things such as project $10.

That and 'online passports' for multiplayer focused games.

Basically they'll continue experimenting with ways to make 2nd hand purchases unattractive and/or ways to recoup some cash off said sales.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Not to mention, If I sold a video game, chances are pretty big I'd buy a new one with that money.

This is something the game industry tends to forget when they ***** and moan about 2nd hand sales - a lot of games are sold to partially fund new purchases. If they start slapping 2nd hand sales on the head too hard they might get something of an unwanted follow on from it.

 

[Kaymish]

i think what west is getting at is that while the sale of game disks second hand is not "wrong" it is more prevelant than piracy no i have no data on that but thats what i understand from the article he is not going on about the "wrongness" or "rightness" of piracy vs sale of used games but the financial impact to the company it maybe that the impact of piracy is less than that of used sales

and now i feel like i said the same thing 3 times to get the point across hopfully it will have a benifit i need to sleep now