Magnetic Engine, and how the universe is a jerk

[Fbuh]

About 2 years ago, I came up with this awesome idea: an electric generator powered by magnets. A ring of magnets surrounds a central magnet on a pivot, causing it to spin endlessly. Then it is just a matter of connecting it to a turbine. Simple, efficient, and earth friendly.

I thought I was a genius that would never have to work again because of this. It turns out that the universe is a jerk and fed me this wonderful idea ALREADY KNOWING THAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVE ATTEMPTED THIS.

Now for my question: Why is this device not instituted in everything we own? The obvious reason is the power companies. But what do y'all think? Could this be instituted mainstream, or is it fanciful science fiction on my part?

 

[lacktheknack]

Air resistance ruins it. So does friction.

So does the structure of a magnet. As your central magnet goes past another magnet, it moves faster until it's as close as possible, then as it continues, it SLOWS DOWN (even if your polarity is done right) until it's closer to the next magnet. Air resistance and friction then jump in and wreck it.

And even if it DOES work, industrial usage would be impractical. You see, magnets can only be so strong. The strongest natural magnet is a rare earth magnet, which you can buy from any science shop. They are really strong to US, but sadly, ~50 pounds of force isn't useful for mass electric production. The only way to increase magnetic magnitude is by electromagnets, which require (dun dun DUUUUHHHN) electricity. Basic Law of Conservation of Energy says that any extra power you get this way will be used to power the electromagnet, ignoring (you guessed it) air resistance and friction. Essentially, you'll have a good sized generator that provides all the energy required to power a couple lightbulbs, in impossibly good circumstances.

Sorry to wreck your idea, but nearly everyone's thought of this. It's not in use because it doesn't work.

 

[Fbuh]

Then I shall make it my goal to make it work. It might work on a small scale, and in a vacuum. All I can do is keep trying.

 

[lacktheknack]

Then I shall make it my goal to make it work. It might work on a small scale, and in a vacuum. All I can do is keep trying.

Friction. Magnet structure.

How about you find ways to improve the cost and effectiveness of solar panels instead? The sun isn't going anywhere anytime soon...

 

[Fbuh]

OR IS IT?!?!?!??! (pushes button)

 

[lacktheknack]

OR IS IT?!?!?!??! (pushes button)

THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS

 

[Nimcha]

Ah, perpetual motion machines. The brainchilds of 12 year olds everywhere.

Oh and a couple of New Age weirdos every now and again.

 

[Jonluw]

If you're planning to keep living in this world you're going to have to get used to people having thought of things before you.

I remember I thought I was sooo smart back when I got the idea that maybe all people didn't perceive colours the same way.
Yeah, I forgot to mention that you've also got to get used to learning that your ideas are actually stupid.

 

[lacktheknack]

If you're planning to keep living in this world you're going to have to get used to people having thought of things before you.

I remember I thought I was sooo smart back when I got the idea that maybe all people didn't perceive colours the same way.

Fun idea expanding on that: What if someone's optic nerve isn't calibrated right, so they see everything upside-down? They wouldn't know.

 

[Baneat]

You can try to make a perpetual motion machine..

But I guarantee you will fail.

 

[guardian001]

I don't know that I'd go with "fanciful science fiction" so much as "blatant disregard for the laws of physics and logical reasoning."

The ring of magnets does not cause it to spin endlessly. What it does is cause the central object to sit perfectly still and be absolutely uninteresting.
In order for the object to spin, each successive magnet it will be pulled towards needs to be stronger than the previous one (otherwise the forces cancel out and it hangs in between them.) Since these magnets are arranged in a circle, basic logic will tell you that you can't keep having the magnets get successively stronger for more than one rotation.

You can circumvent this by having the external magnets be electromagnets, allowing you to dynamically change their power.
Congratulations, you have just designed the electric motor. That being the polar opposite of a generator (Electrical -> Kinetic vs. Kinetic -> Electrical)

Even if you could use magic to defy physics and reason in order to make it spin perpetually, you would have exactly enough energy to make it spin, and not a Joule more to make it spin a turbine.

 

[dududf]

I had a similar thought on my *genius* idea when I was a young child.

A nuclear power generator and water distiller. built into one.

Instead of just using the same water, keep running in salty water/dirty water and when it's converted to steam, instead of looping it around, loop it out and let people who don't have large access to clean water be over joyed in the clean water.

I still think it could work.... if you can deal with the whole radiation problem.

 

[Baneat]

I had a similar thought on my *genius* idea when I was a young child.

A nuclear power generator and water distiller. built into one.

Instead of just using the same water, keep running in salty water/dirty water and when it's converted to steam, instead of looping it around, loop it out and let people who don't have large access to clean water be over joyed in the clean water.

I still think it could work.... if you can deal with the whole radiation problem.

And the massive ammounts of dirt now in the system (It's being left behind)

In a system, that when fucks up, kills all those joyous folk.

 

[dududf]

I had a similar thought on my *genius* idea when I was a young child.

A nuclear power generator and water distiller. built into one.

Instead of just using the same water, keep running in salty water/dirty water and when it's converted to steam, instead of looping it around, loop it out and let people who don't have large access to clean water be over joyed in the clean water.

I still think it could work.... if you can deal with the whole radiation problem.

And the massive ammounts of dirt now in the system (It's being left behind)

In a system, that when fucks up, kills all those joyous folk.

I had a solution to that problem, as I'm aware that there'd be left over crap. Only problem in that regard, i.e. just have a routine flush of a cleaning agent from which can be reused.

 

[Quaxar]

Ah, troll science.

You go have fun.
Bro tip: use magnets for faster loading.

 

[Jonluw]

If you're planning to keep living in this world you're going to have to get used to people having thought of things before you.

I remember I thought I was sooo smart back when I got the idea that maybe all people didn't perceive colours the same way.

Fun idea expanding on that: What if someone's optic nerve isn't calibrated right, so they see everything upside-down? They wouldn't know.

Hmmmm...

I'm trying to figure out the exact mechanics of this now. My mind is breaking.
When you turn your head(eyes) upside down, assuming you manage to keep the exact same field in your vision, is your brain sent the exact same image as before - then continuing to use input from gravity to interpret it as upside down, or does your retina have an 'up' side and a 'down' side that all images are registered with one side up and one side down?

If the latter assumption is right, I think they might be able to notice in regard to one thing though: Even blind people can move their limbs quite accurately. Our senses allow us to know how we are moving despite not seeing our limbs. A person with "upside down" eyes would perhaps notice that the input from the eyes does not correlate to the input from the other senses. Move hand up, hand goes down. However, there is no way for him to know this isn't how it's supposed to work...

Eeeehh...
This person would undoubtedly be very clumsy though, since his senses don't correlate.

I think what needs to be done is to pick an eye out of its socket, while keeping it attached to the head still, and then rotate it around an axis that goes along the optical nerve. That way we could see if the person perceived it as the image input being turned upside down, or if it's not important where on your retina the light falls.

OT: As for actually clever ideas for creating energy. Here's a good one. Salt power [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmotic_power].
Do you have a river running out into the sea? Do you remember the concept of osmosis from high school? Then you're in luck.
If you have a container separated into two compartments by a semi-permeable membrane, you can let fresh water from the river into one compartment and salt water from the sea into the other. Osmosis means water from the fresh water half of the container will travel over to the salt water half. This causes pressure to rise in the salt water part of the container. When you release the pressure it can be used to drive a turbine.

That's a simplified version at least.

 

[Baneat]

I had a similar thought on my *genius* idea when I was a young child.

A nuclear power generator and water distiller. built into one.

Instead of just using the same water, keep running in salty water/dirty water and when it's converted to steam, instead of looping it around, loop it out and let people who don't have large access to clean water be over joyed in the clean water.

I still think it could work.... if you can deal with the whole radiation problem.

And the massive ammounts of dirt now in the system (It's being left behind)

In a system, that when fucks up, kills all those joyous folk.

I had a solution to that problem, as I'm aware that there'd be left over crap. Only problem in that regard, i.e. just have a routine flush of a cleaning agent from which can be reused.

Such a thing exists? It must, of course, be entirely non-toxic and inert and all that sort of thing

 

[Baneat]

If you're planning to keep living in this world you're going to have to get used to people having thought of things before you.

I remember I thought I was sooo smart back when I got the idea that maybe all people didn't perceive colours the same way.

Fun idea expanding on that: What if someone's optic nerve isn't calibrated right, so they see everything upside-down? They wouldn't know.

Hmmmm...

I'm trying to figure out the exact mechanics of this now. My mind is breaking.
When you turn your head(eyes) upside down, assuming you manage to keep the exact same field in your vision, is your brain sent the exact same image as before - then continuing to use input from gravity to interpret it as upside down, or does your retina have an 'up' side and a 'down' side that all images are registered with one side up and one side down?

If the latter assumption is right, I think they might be able to notice in regard to one thing though: Even blind people can move their limbs quite accurately. Our senses allow us to know how we are moving despite not seeing our limbs. A person with "upside down" eyes would perhaps notice that the input from the eyes does not correlate to the input from the other senses. Move hand up, hand goes down. However, there is no way for him to know this isn't how it's supposed to work...

Eeeehh...
This person would undoubtedly be very clumsy though, since his senses don't correlate.

I think what needs to be done is to pick an eye out of its socket, while keeping it attached to the head still, and then rotate it around an axis that goes along the optical nerve. That way we could see if the person perceived it as the image input being turned upside down, or if it's not important where on your retina the light falls.

OT: As for actually clever ideas for creating energy. Here's a good one. Salt power [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmotic_power].
Do you have a river running out into the sea? Do you remember the concept of osmosis from high school? Then you're in luck.
If you have a container separated into two compartments by a semi-permeable membrane, you can let fresh water from the river into one compartment and salt water from the sea into the other. Osmosis means water from the fresh water half of the container will travel over to the salt water half. This causes pressure to rise in the salt water part of the container. When you release the pressure it can be used to drive a turbine.

That's a simplified version at least.

Our eyes already correct up and down automatically, the image is reversed through the refraction through the eyes, and hits your retina upside down. Your brain simply makes it the right way up (Based on gravity, I think, not so sure)

 

[Redingold]

Perpetual motion is impossible to use as an energy source (it's not impossible in and of itself though, because of the third law of thermodynamics. A particle will always have a temperature, and thus some kinetic energy).