Marine Mike Reviews: Magazines and Reloading

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Marine Mike

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Welcome back Escapists to another one of Marine Mike's reviews, where I take my knowledge of modern warfighting and compare it to the world of video games. Today we'll take a look at how "realistic" shooters approach the concept of reloading and weapon magazines.



Lets start with something that as far as I know only one game has ever done right.
I hate seeing ammunition representing with "30|300"... its like saying that aside from the bullets in your current magazine, you're carrying a pouch full of 300 loose rounds. While this is not quite as infuriating as seeing things like 30|90 (such as in CoD:MW2 without scavenger), but we'll address that a little later. Now not all shooters do this, I have seen some that list the number of full magazines remaining and if you reload before the mag is empty those bullets are lost.
Well, one of the many skills you must learn to be an effective infantryman is something called "magazine retention". Simply dropping a magazine on the ground and moving on is not common practice as with enough practice you can learn to reload your weapon just as fast and keep that magazine with you. Most Marines and soldiers simply go out and buy "drop pouches" that attach to your vest to stow used magazines, and the rest of us learn to make use of those fancy cargo pockets found on our trousers. Either way, its just not good business to leave a half-full magazine laying around for whatever local happens to walk by.

I had mentioned earlier that only one game that I know of has treated reloading right.
That is only partially correct, see, it wasn't even a standalone game that sent my heart a-flutter. It was an independent mod for the original Half-Life called Firearms. Their interface showed you the number of rounds remaining in your current magazine, followed by the number of magazines you have with bullets in them. Some may say that this isn't really that much of a change, but I'll get into how it adds an extra tactical challenge to the gameplay. For those that are familiar with closed-bolt magazine-fed weapons, you would know that dropping the magazine is most definitely not unloading it, and the Firearms mod included this lovely little detail. You see, unless you fire off every last bullet in the magazine, you will have a round in the chamber ready to fire even if you drop the mag. So when you pop off 10 or so shots and decide to reload, you end up with 30 rounds in the fresh magazine plus one in the chamber (Commonly specifications for ammo capacity in weapons are listed like 7+1 or 20+1, now you know why). So on top of the "round in the chamber" feature, Firearms also keeps track of those half-spent magazines and will load them back into your weapon when you run out of full ones. There is also a hotkey to "merge magazines" which takes slightly longer than your average reload and makes as many full magazines as it can out of your used ones. While this is not necessarily realistic as it would take up quite a bit of time, its completely forgivable because realism in this case would destroy the pacing of the game. Here is where your tactical decision comes into play, do you risk not having enough ammo in your magazine to face what may be ahead or do you risk getting caught with your pants down as you merge together your ammunition. Alright I've gone on long enough about Firearms, this isn't a review of an old Half-Life mod. I just wanted to point out that they are the ones that did it right.

"Why is 30|90 so much worse than 30|300?"
Because its 210 less bullets to shoot, duh! To be more precise, absolutely no soldier would go into a combat situation with only 3 extra magazines!! I personally carried 3 magazines on my weapon alone; one loaded, one taped to the loaded one, and one in a pouch on the buttstock. When we deployed to Iraq we all had at least 7 magazines issued to us for our M16s, most of us went out and bought several more. I personally carried 8 magazines, and seen people carry as many as 14... and this was for patrols only lasting a couple hours. Our SAW gunners would carry at least 2 spare boxes of 200.

Well, now we know how much ammo the average warfighter carries now how fast can they really reload?
Fast. Fast enough that most shooters look like developers must have used someone who has been in the military for about 3 hours and assumed everyone reloads that slowly. If you don't take my word for it then,

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Now of course we all can't reload that quickly, and you can see that they drop their magazines on the ground which I mentioned earlier is a no-no. People will not always reload at the same speed and do something enough times and you're bound to make mistakes, something that games seem to overlook. Even the best of us may not lock the magazine in place correctly and watch with mortal embarrassment as your full magazine plummets to the floor and comes apart, leaving you to scramble about picking up the now scattered live rounds. I'm not saying that games should make you drop magazines on the floor, but I do think that there should at least be a small variance in the time it takes you to reload.

So in the end are these discrepancies developer oversight or for game balancing purposes?
As far as I'm concerned, for as little of a gameplay difference changing 30|300 to 30|10 and making the slight shift in how ammunition is handled, I can only describe why this hasn't happened often as laziness on the part of the developer. You may say, "Why does it matter? Its a trivial detail." I say it matters because it is such a trivial detail, because some people enjoy playing realistic shooters because they want to be able to save half-full magazines and have that round in the chamber, and most of the other players won't even notice the change. Now with my issue of extremely limited ammo; I can see how it can be used as a game balancing tool, and a realistic amount of ammo would take longer to fire than your average lifespan. Overall I think that we are due for some innovation in the lower-right corner of our screen, but most games seem content to leave it as it is.

Thank you all again for making it to the end of my second review, and as always am open for suggestions, feedback, or ideas. In case anyone was wondering I served in the US Marine Corps for four years from 2003-2007 as an Infantry Anti-Tank Assaultman. I've had two deployments to Iraq and one to Haiti, and love to talk about my experiences.

Grenades [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.190907-Marine-Mike-Reviews-Grenades]
RPGs, Rockets, and Backblast [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.191392-Marine-Mike-Reviews-RPGs-Rockets-and-Backblast]
Bullet Penetration [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.192012-Marine-Mike-Reviews-Bullet-Penetration]

EDIT: This one isn't nearly as technically detailed as the last one, so let me know which style you like better.

COMING SOON:
-Bullet Penetration
-RPGs, Rockets, and Backblast
 

chronobreak

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This was a very interesting read, and thank you for serving our country. I really like the idea of variances in reload times in a game, it would give it much more of a human element. I'll check out your review of grenades.
 

GRoXERs

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This is actually interesting, unlike many people who I see complaining about how guns etc. in games are handled unrealistically. I mean, it's true and they're right too, but you actually back your arguments up. I approve.

I've often wondered this myself - after firing twenty rounds from a 30 round magazine then reloading, and continuing to fire until I've run out of ammo, when did I reload that magazine?
 

NeutralDrow

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Whee, another one! I have to admit, I did really like the technical detail of the other review over the simplified version this time...but I think that's because shooters aren't really my genre anyway, so I loved the abundance of real-world technical knowledge. Not that that was absent here; now if I ever got into an FPS, I'm suddenly going to be really noticing this stuff.

...wait, does this technically mean one of the more realistic FPS weapons is the semiauto pistol from Duke Nukem 3D, of all things? I mean, it does have the arbitrary ammo limit, and the Duke seems averse to ever reloading the actual magazines (grab spare magazines up to the 200 round limit with only four rounds in the gun, and he'll still reload after four shots), but still...
 

Marine Mike

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NeutralDrow said:
Whee, another one! I have to admit, I did really like the technical detail of the other review over the simplified version this time...but I think that's because shooters aren't really my genre anyway, so I loved the abundance of real-world technical knowledge. Not that that was absent here; now if I ever got into an FPS, I'm suddenly going to be really noticing this stuff.

...wait, does this technically mean one of the more realistic FPS weapons is the semiauto pistol from Duke Nukem 3D, of all things? I mean, it does have the arbitrary ammo limit, and the Duke seems averse to ever reloading the actual magazines (grab spare magazines up to the 200 round limit with only four rounds in the gun, and he'll still reload after four shots), but still...
I wasn't really trying to simplify this one, its just that there wasn't nearly as much technical data to draw from on this one. I still tried to apply as much real-world comparison on the subjects as I could though. The next couple I have in mind will be filled with all sorts of neat facts. Once again I'm glad I could provide with an entertaining read.
 

internetzealot1

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Pretty interesting, informative review. Its good to have someone with actual experience around to point these things out. I really didn't know people could reload that fast. I actually thought most games were too speedy.

The whole saving-half-spent-mags thing could possibly appear in a single player game, but never in multiplayer. It'd just be too much of a *****.

Really looking forward to the review about rockets
 

Parattchi

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If I remember correctly, at least one of the Rainbow Six games, I think an early one for the Playstation, had you keep all magazines. Reloading would simply cycle through, meaning that if you have a habit of hitting reload after every time you fire, you would quickly end up with a bunch of half-full mags. So, a game has done it right without mods.
 

Kollega

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This one was good - and yes, i've liked the technical details of first part more.

These reviews are actually very good and fresh, i look forward to more.
 

Redlin5_v1legacy

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Aug 5, 2009
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I liked both your reviews equally. Why not make your next review part technical, part layman? And definitely continue to post videos that relate to the topic, it really helps. I'm looking forward to the next one! :)
 

Zomni42

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Again absolutely fascinating please keep them coming. You sir shall soon become a staple here at the Escapist.
 

Need MOAR APPLES

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I KNEW YOU WOULD MENTION FIRE ARMS! I played that game like there was no tomorrow back in the day when I first started I was like, "WTF? I HAVE TO MERGE MY MAGS?! BS!!!"
 

Slayer_2

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A few other games that have realistic reloading:

Red Orchestra: Ostfront (A realistic WW2 game)

Insurgency: (A HL2 realism mod based around the war in the middle east)

Crysis also gets props for allowing you to chamber rounds, but individual magazines are not tracked. With a good bullet-penetration and a damage increase mod, the game becomes more tactical (you have to think more about cover and concealment, especially with the destroyable environments).

Nice "reviews" man, keep them coming, I'm interested to see what you have to say on back-blast with RPG's. I should see about adding such a system to my Fallout 3 realism mod, stand too close to a wall when firing, and you get lit on fire or something :p
 

Marine Mike

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Thank all of you guys for the excellent praise, I'm glad you enjoy my reviews. Now an extra treat for you, because I can't seem to get to sleep I'm almost done writing up the RPG and rocket launcher review.
 

Spiner909

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I really like your articles. Thanks for clarification. I look forward to the one on bullet penetration, I hope you cover a bit on ricocheting bullets as well.
 

Chamale

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I liked this review. Though I don't know all that much about firearms, I do notice details that are inconsistent with reality in videogames, and it bothers me. The first FPS I played was the original Rainbow Six, which gets everything right like Firearms did. The only detail that's missing is the round in the chamber.
 

WolfThomas

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Dec 21, 2007
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What I said in my thread on the topic
I don't think this would be fun with all games, but I think a survival based shooter like STALKER or a horror like Condemned could benefit from my following proposal.

The character has an inventory, there's a number of magazine and a number of each bullets, in a safe area or whenever the player rests, the character can automatically fill as many magazines as he can with the rounds.

When the play taps the button to reload he switchs to the next magazine in an cycle, if the magazine isn't empty it goes back in circulation, this means eventually the player will be drawing half empty mags.

However if the play holds the reload button down, he removes the magazine and start filling it manually with whatever ammo that is floating around the inventory if the button is released he stops filling regardless of many rounds are in it (saying 7 out of 15), this is means in quiet moments the player can make sure all his magazines are full or in desperate moments they can shove a couple of rounds into a magazine before shooting say the last of a mob of zombies climbing up a building.

The ammo and magazine have specific weights, so that needs to be considered in inventory management and enemies magazines would a pot luck on whether they'd have any rounds. Shotguns would reload normally and perhaps machine guns could have links of ammunition as well. The type of weapons you choose would be influenced by all this, revolver versus semi-automatic etc.

This could create tense moments, say for example the player is sneaking through an abandoned building with only an empty handgun they've picked up from a dead body, they find a box of cartridges and suddenly a shrill monster noise erupts from the next room, they hurriedly start reloading their magazine as the door crashes open, they slam a half full magazine in just in time to cap the beast between in the eyes.
 

Zannah

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I wonder why no one mentioned Swat (at least 4) here - seperate magazines, that you keep, and realoading half loaded ones if your out of full ones).
While I'm generally with you on the matter, some sacrifices have to be made (at least in multiplayer environments - things like a differing loading span on a random basis would be a terrible thing to do, as such can decide a duel, a whole game even, without any player being responsible for it (which is as much a no go, as dropping live magazines in iraq ;P )

Nice review though.