ME3: Are the Reapers the Good Guys?

[guitarsniper]

I've been thinking about this for a while, but it seems to me that from some perspectives it could be argued that the Reapers are doing the right thing. Let's go through this: In Mass Effect 2, we find out that reapers are what seem to be composite consciousnesses of races that are presumably now extinct.
So from a transhumanist perspective, wouldn't that be really good? Allowing vast numbers of a race to survive in a different form, while at the same time clearing the galaxy to allow new forms of life to evolve.
I haven't read a lot of transhumanist philosophy, so i may be using the term incorrectly, but i feel like the idea stands.
what do you guys think? from a bigger picture viewpoint, are the reapers really the good ones?

 

[YawningAngel]

The Reapers probably think so, certainly. I doubt Bioware will take the time to explore the issue though, they were fairly clearly the bad guys last time around.

 

[madwarper]

In Mass Effect 2, we find out that reapers are what seem to be composite consciousnesses of races that are presumably now extinct.

But, they're presumably extinct ... BECAUSE THE REAPERS ERADICATED THEM.

Allowing vast numbers of a race to survive in a different form,

'In a different form'? As in no longer human?

while at the same time clearing the galaxy to allow new forms of life to evolve.

Last time I checked, the galaxy was a pretty big place. There's plenty of room.

are the reapers really the good ones?

No.

If the Reapers were good, or even neutral, they'd just come in every now and again, take a sampling of the DNA, data and leave as is.
If life was a threat unto itself, it would wipe itself out without the reaper's assistance.

 

[thiosk]

Ha ha! I'd have to say nahhhhhhhh. The evil races never think what they're doing is evil though-- they have their own strategy and they think its the best way to do things, and don't think twice about cleaning out lots of us simple folk.

They farm sentience, for christs sake. I have this thing about sentience. I don't like arbitrarily killing it. I don't mind eating turkey on thanksgiving because turkeys aren't sentient. People are.

 

[bootz]

Sherperd don't fear the reaper so I won't

 

[Exfil 22]

n Mass Effect 2, we find out that reapers are what seem to be composite consciousnesses of races that are presumably now extinct.

Actually, as I understood it, their collective consciousness was unaltered by their interactions with other races. Their biology (can you call it biology since they`re robots?) was based off of the races they destroyed, hence the Human-Reaper. A good comparison might be the Tyranids from Warhammer 40k, or the Flood.

But hey, that's what I got. If I'm wrong about that, then it becomes more morally grey.

 

[Virgilthepagan]

I'm going to go with "no on so many levels" here, again, it's not like they're saving the species they eradicate, no, they exterminate them first. If we'd found out that, oh say, Stalin had a magic soul catching stone that had captured the twenty someodd million he killed through starvation and the red purges, would that make it "better?" No, they're still very dead.

Since you played to the end, remember watching someone get dissolved screaming into their component bits? I think that was supposed to horrify us just a bit...

 

[MightyRabbit]

They don't even make a Reaper of every species they kill. I'm pretty sure on the exact details because it's been a while since i played it, but I'm fairly sure that the Reapers decided to make a human Reaper because Shepard foiled their plans for galactic genocide twice and/or they were down one Reaper after that whole Sovereign kerfuffle. You know, then he came back from the dead and stopped them from doing that. Hell, they should just turn Shepard into a Reaper.

Back on topic, the Reapers aren't preserving the sentient species of the galaxies really, just killing them and using them to further their own agenda.

 

[Comando96]

hmm... interesting.

The knee-jerk "no"ing of people is probably more interesting than the thread title..

-------------

I'd be skeptical of the Reapers position on the moral compass, due to the fact we don't know what they are exactly and how the flesh is translated into Reaper, however if a collective consciousness was formed then... its possible they're the good guys in a Universe where there is no God in their view and they are saving people from death, and allowing them to live for hundreds of thousands (millions? Billions!!!???) of years in the only form possible for long term survival.

However... judging by how if your a dick in ME2 all you're ships crew bar the Dr gets turned into goo... hard to see how brain functionality is saved >.>

Also even if this is the case then lots of unworthy races are dispensed of and husked in the process so their still pretty low down there xD

Whats the kill/save ratio? Kill 10,000 "save"(uplift?) 1?

 

[Ordinaryundone]

I've been thinking about this for a while, but it seems to me that from some perspectives it could be argued that the Reapers are doing the right thing. Let's go through this: In Mass Effect 2, we find out that reapers are what seem to be composite consciousnesses of races that are presumably now extinct.
So from a transhumanist perspective, wouldn't that be really good? Allowing vast numbers of a race to survive in a different form, while at the same time clearing the galaxy to allow new forms of life to evolve.
I haven't read a lot of transhumanist philosophy, so i may be using the term incorrectly, but i feel like the idea stands.
what do you guys think? from a bigger picture viewpoint, are the reapers really the good ones?

....No, they aren't. They want to exterminate all life in the galaxy. There is nothing even remotely "good" about that. I mean, I'm sure they have some grand objective other than "Destroy", but still. Nobody's motives are pure enough to warrant the destruction of EVERY SENTIENT BEING IN THE GALAXY. No sentient beings, no matter how powerful or ancient, have that kind of authority.

Now, if this was a Galactus-style situation, where they were a natural entity that existed to do the global-extermination thing, and the galaxy literally could not exist if they didn't? Then yeah, sure. Still evil, but necessary. But all the Reapers seem to be are extrememly old. They aren't gods, or forces of nature. They are just hyper evolved jerkasses who enjoy dicking around with evolution (I assume for the want of something better to do).

 

[ThriKreen]

I'm just going to say, "You'll find out."

=3

 

[Twilight_guy]

I'm fairly certain that the reapers are less about preserve life so much as coming in and eating it and using it to reproduce then leaving. It's more like there using the universe as livestock. I'm sure cows don't see the head of the slaughterhouse as a good guy.

 

[Kopikatsu]

I've been thinking about this for a while, but it seems to me that from some perspectives it could be argued that the Reapers are doing the right thing. Let's go through this: In Mass Effect 2, we find out that reapers are what seem to be composite consciousnesses of races that are presumably now extinct.
So from a transhumanist perspective, wouldn't that be really good? Allowing vast numbers of a race to survive in a different form, while at the same time clearing the galaxy to allow new forms of life to evolve.
I haven't read a lot of transhumanist philosophy, so i may be using the term incorrectly, but i feel like the idea stands.
what do you guys think? from a bigger picture viewpoint, are the reapers really the good ones?

....No, they aren't. They want to exterminate all life in the galaxy. There is nothing even remotely "good" about that. I mean, I'm sure they have some grand objective other than "Destroy", but still. Nobody's motives are pure enough to warrant the destruction of EVERY SENTIENT BEING IN THE GALAXY. No sentient beings, no matter how powerful or ancient, have that kind of authority.

Now, if this was a Galactus-style situation, where they were a natural entity that existed to do the global-extermination thing, and the galaxy literally could not exist if they didn't? Then yeah, sure. Still evil, but necessary. But all the Reapers seem to be are extrememly old. They aren't gods, or forces of nature. They are just hyper evolved jerkasses who enjoy dicking around with evolution (I assume for the want of something better to do).

You're forgetting that every sentient being in the galaxy owe their existence, and almost all of their technology to the Reapers.

They basically ARE Gods. They create life, and they take it away when it suits them.

My understanding of the Reaper's motivation is that they've grown stagnant. They can no longer evolve, nor can they improve upon the technology that they already have. So they 'reset' the universe every so often so that they can create new, evolved Reapers and integrate the technology created by the new races to advance themselves.

Edit: Essentially, the Reapers are like humans in real life. Everything that isn't a Reaper lives only to serve them and advance their goals.

 

[xmbts]

Yeah but it comes at the cost of melting billions of people, enslaving other races and all other sentient life not worthy being wiped out. So it's the standard "Should we lose our humanity to live forever.

Plus existing for billions of years spending 99.9% of that time asleep only moving when doing the whole racial cleansing thing sounds like a pretty boring existence.

 

[_tinned_magpie_]

Um... no. No they are not.

I'm fairly certain that the reapers are less about preserve life so much as coming in and eating it and using it to reproduce then leaving. It's more like there using the universe as livestock. I'm sure cows don't see the head of the slaughterhouse as a good guy.

Pretty much this. Their goal is to wipe out sentient life every 50,000 years whether they like it or not. They steal all the resources and assimilate all life in order to reproduce, and then bugger off to wait for the next round. The only reason they leave their technology lying around is to lure the new races into developing the way they want, like fattening up a pig. Giving other races a chance to evolve? They're not really pulling that off considering they murder everything the minute it reaches the stage they want it to be at.

Not all that beneficial, if you asked me.

 

[Kopikatsu]

I'm just going to say, "You'll find out."

=3

...That's never a good sign.

The Reapers are actually keeping something much worse from descending on the galaxy, aren't they? AREN'T THEY?

 

[fix-the-spade]

The Reapers are actually keeping something much worse from descending on the galaxy, aren't they? AREN'T THEY?

And there we have the plot of Mass Effect 4...

I do not like the Reapers, I don't see them as evil particularly.

They exist on a level and timescale such that the races of the galaxy are little else than fleeting microbes to them. Humans mash through billion of microscopic creatures a day per person yet attach no moral value to the act even though our survival is reliant on them. We also mash through billions of macro organism on a daily basis too, rendering them down to grow and repair ourselves.

They do that on a galactic scale, there's little moral leaning when it comes to the mechanism of your survival, you do what's needed and so do they.

Unfortunately that same survival mechanism makes them the enemy, so Shepard must destroy!

 

[ThriKreen]

...That's never a good sign.

The Reapers are actually keeping something much worse from descending on the galaxy, aren't they? AREN'T THEY?

Again, "You'll find out".

=3