Multiverses.

[Fury Is Me.]

Me and my friend were getting into a discussion about the infinite possibilities of each universe, meaning that every possibility imaginable exists. So I said that, in an infinite possibility of universes, math does not exist and cannot exist. He disagreed and said that such a thing could not exist, becausre everything has to have math.

How many of YOU believe that we can just say outright that we can apply EVERY law about science and physics from our universe to EVERY other universe and the ones that don't fit it do not exist?

 

[SnootyEnglishman]

I think the possibility of multiple universes at once is possible. What could be in these universes is a mystery even Sherlock Holmes and L couldn't solve.

 

[hittite]

I simply can't conceive of a universe in which no form of math exists. However, I can understand one in which math is simply... different. Like what if 2+2=3.9? That would trickle down and mean that the physics of that universe are fundamentally different.

 

[delet]

There is an infinite possibility of universes.

That means there is a universe in which no other alternate universes can exist.

In other words, it's bullshit as it can not allow a factor which destroys the idea completely. It's like dividing by 0.

 

[hittite]

There is an infinite possibility of universes.

That means there is a universe in which no other alternate universes can exist.

In other words, it's bullshit as it can not allow a factor which destroys the idea completely. It's like dividing by 0.

Hey, that was my causality raping epiphany. I demand royalties.

 

[delet]

There is an infinite possibility of universes.

That means there is a universe in which no other alternate universes can exist.

In other words, it's bullshit as it can not allow a factor which destroys the idea completely. It's like dividing by 0.

Hey, that was my causality raping epiphany. I demand royalties.

Oh? But it is in fact my go-to example whenever this topic appears. If anyone should be getting royalties, it's me.

 

[Chamale]

There may exist universes in which the laws of physics are fundamentally different. For example, our universe does not preserve kinetic energy, instead converting it sometimes into other forms of energy. That would seem really weird to someone from a universe that does, and their universe would seem unbelievably hostile and alien - humans would die instantly in such a place.

As for math... I think the basic idea that 1+1 is 2 can always be expressed in some way. However, there may exist a universe where probability is fundamentally different. In this case, math wouldn't be terrifically useful for calculating anything.

 

[Fury Is Me.]

Maths is constant and consistent everywhere and under any conditions. That's the point, that's its purpose. It doesn't exist in a normal sense. You can't just say "Oh but what if it wasn't?" because then you're just being uneducated and attempting pseudo-philosophy. It's not clever and it's not scientific.

If maths didn't function in a universe, that universe wouldn't exist at all in any sense. Your argument defeats itself.

Can you just say that if you've never BEEN to such a place? It's the same as saying you don't believe in the south pole because you haven't seen it

 

[blankedboy]

Well, if one universe can be randomly created, why not another?

It seems simple enough to me.

 

[s0m3th1ng]

Our physical constants (gravity, strong and weak atomic force, etc.) may not be the same in another universe. In fact they are most certainly different.

 

[Dark Knifer]

It's possible for an alternate universe to have different rules, but highely unlikely we can imagine that. Maths is not always constant. Maths says that the sum of the angles of all triangles equals 180 degrees, and I happen to know that is not always the case. So it's possible our consistencies in our universe do not apply in another universe.

 

[Fury Is Me.]

Maths is constant and consistent everywhere and under any conditions. That's the point, that's its purpose. It doesn't exist in a normal sense. You can't just say "Oh but what if it wasn't?" because then you're just being uneducated and attempting pseudo-philosophy. It's not clever and it's not scientific.

If maths didn't function in a universe, that universe wouldn't exist at all in any sense. Your argument defeats itself.

Can you just say that if you've never BEEN to such a place? It's the same as saying you don't believe in the south pole because you haven't seen it

Yes I can just say that. Maths isn't seeing and believing, I don't have to go somewhere and it changes. It functions purely in and of itself. Maths is pure, it transcends existence. If a universe exists, maths will function there, because maths is not bound by physical conditions. Maths functions just as normally on earth as it does in an alternate universe where energy and matter are reversed.

Your continued pseudo-philosophy does you no credit. You provide no logic, no argument, just "What if?" and "You can't disprove my imagination!"

Centuries ago, philosophers were respected because they dealt with science.
Today, philosophers are no longer respected because they no longer deal with science.

I'm just trying to defend my case and say that it's a possibility. I'm not saying you're wrong.

 

[coyotepack]

The problem here is that, since we only live in THIS universe, and have never lived in any other universe where things might be different, our imaginations and understanding is limited to the laws of physics and causality that we have been taught/learned/read about/encountered/etc. We cannot envisage a universe without any kind of math because we have never been exposed to the details of such a universe, how it would function, and so on. Such a world would be so utterly alien to us, we may not even be able to deal with it if we DID encounter such a world; we might go total insane. Of course, one idea for a universe without math COULD be one that is devoid of ANYTHING; no time, space, matter, energy, whatever.
Of course, another question would be: what exactly is the nature of maths? Something so fundamental is (to my mind, anyway) difficult to define exactly.

That's my 2 drachmas worth for the discussion.

 

[Calgetorix]

It's possible for an alternate universe to have different rules, but highely unlikely we can imagine that. Maths is not always constant. Maths says that the sum of the angles of all triangles equals 180 degrees, and I happen to know that is not always the case. So it's possible our consistencies in our universe do not apply in another universe.

180 degrees on a linear surface, yes. If the sum is greater than 180 degrees, it is because you have drawn it on a sphere. If it is less than 180 degrees, it is on a saddle. Mathematics predict that so it is constant.