My thoughts on the 'friend zone' thingy

[Overusedname]

This is not a whining thread. In fact, it's anything but.

I recently came to a little realization.

The term 'friend zone' has always greatly confused me throughout my teen years up to now, a just-barely-21-year-old guy. I've never understood why it bothered guys so much to be friends with women. One of the most important connections I have in my life is a friend who is a girl, and to date her would feel bizarre. Obviously 'some people are compatible as friends, just not romantic partners.' And that's true, but I've noticed another issue. And it's made me stop judging both guys AND girls who complain about 'the friend-zone'.

---------

A lot of people are very shy, especially in highschool which is when all this chaos starts for most people and the other gender stops having cooties and starts looking sexy (for straight people). We have difficulty expressing our emotions. And we start to feel like we can't just be friends with that other gender, as we can find them attractive. But I think most people get over that aspect nowadays and realize that it's easy to overcome that. I'm more so talking about the effect of shyness.

Nice guys AND girls often complain about being turned down...and it made me think of my personal experience. I had a couple girls ask me out in highschool. And none of them really...did it for me. I either barely knew them, or the only things I knew about them was 'pretty and nice'. Those are great qualities, but if that's all I know about them, why would I instantly leap into full-blown relationship status? I didn't see their interesting side, their quirks, their passions, the depth, etc. It can be hard to be open enough about yourself for your crush to see what's special about you.

I feel like that's also what happens when girls are approached by 'nice, and perhaps good-looking guys'. They might not have seen the thing that makes you stand out yet, or perhaps you really just aren't someone they think of that way. And I don't think 'friend' is necessarily someone you care about less, it's just different flavor of affection. I don't love my best friend the same way I loved my ex, and I love my mother very differently than either of them, but I don't know if I could pick a favorite. They were all important to me.

I've had only 2 crushes my whole life, and when one of them turned me down, she assured me that I was cool, handsome, etc., but she didn't want to be in a relationship with anyone at the time. She didn't feel ready, so I respectfully backed off. And I know for a fact that a lot of girls and guys aren't that nice when they turn someone down: She was very sweet about it really, but that doesn't mean everyone is. It still hurt, but it didn't hurt as much as it could have. I think a lot of people, both guys and gals are more insensitive about it.

In fact...I wished I turned down girls as well as she turned me down. I didn't tell them how cool they were, or really explain myself, I just uncomfortably said 'I'm sorry, there's nothing wrong with you, I just don't feel that way.'

And that's another big thing: people had crushes on me. It assured me I wasn't ugly, and there wasn't something wrong with me, and I should have thanked those girls for being open about their feelings because it gave me a lot more confidence in myself. I was kinda bullied in middleschool so that meant a lot to me. It made me feel like there wasn't anything wrong with me. And...I really regret not being more gentle to those girls. I wasn't a dick, but I could've been a lot more kind.

And I also always realize when talking with friends and such...we never realize just how many people might be 'interested' and never approach us about it. Were you vocal about every single crush you ever had? Odds are, someone was interested, and they never confessed it or used a clear enough signal. And it can be hard to read those signals (I was told by several girls, including my in my family, that I was oblivious to being flirted with unless it was blatant.) Some people may never read your signals either.

My point is: Some people don't have the luck I did. I had several positive friendships with women, and at least one relationship under my belt (as short as it was). I can understand why people become frustrated with being friend-zoned, because it's easy to misread what it means. But there was nothing wrong with any of those girls I turned down. I just didn't know anything about them beyond 'nice'. Kindness is a great trait, in both friendship and romance, but I don't find niceness in itself to be...sexy. And I think several people see it the same way.

We all get rejected sometimes, and our parents will tell us 'well, they don't know what they're missing kid!' And that's exactly right, they don't know, because when we're young, it's terrifying to be open about ourselves for fear of being judged. So never be afraid to be open, show off a little bit. I've always been impressed by women who are artistic, intelligent, dedicated to something they care about, as well as kind. Kindness is important, but it can't be the only thing I know about a potential lover.

And speaking as someone who has a very important friend who is the fairer sex, the friendzone isn't always a bad place to be.

This is just my personal perspective, and I just hope people can relate to it. I'm not judging anyone, I'm just telling you what my experience is, and why the friendzone isn't always a bad thing nor does it belittle the other gender's intelligence.


TL;DR: ...Um, yeah. Love is nice. It just takes different forms sometimes. And never forget how shy people can be, even when they have nothing they should feel the need to hide.

...please don't hurt me. I was raised by a soldier and a hippie. I realize not everyone had my kind of youth. That's the whole point. We need to stop judging eachother and realize everyone has very different experiences with the other sex, and none of them is less 'true' than the other. And that can't color our perception of the world. That's how discrimination happens.

...Okay bye. (man, if this was any other forum I would have just signed my death warrant.)

 

[Thaluikhain]

...

Ok, we've had our fair share of friendzone threads before, but this one isn't oozing whiny conceit and self-delusion.

Odd.

Anyway, I'd be wary of using the term, as it tends to mark you out as someone that hasn't grasped that being friendly to someone does not place them under an obligation to fuck you.

 

[Overusedname]

...

Ok, we've had our fair share of friendzone threads before, but this one isn't oozing whiny conceit and self-delusion.

Odd.

Anyway, I'd be wary of using the term, as it tends to mark you out as someone that hasn't grasped that being friendly to someone does not place them under an obligation to fuck you.

You mean I shouldn't use the term at all? Hm...I guess you're right. I certainly don't use it in my day-to-day life. I don't think being friends with women is odd or needs a special term.

But in this case, I felt otherwise people wouldn't even get what I'm referring to, ya know?

 

[Stasisesque]

Whenever threads discussing the 'friend zone' come up, I often feel left out. I just haven't seemed to have had the same life as most people who talk about these sorts of things.

One part of your post stood out for me:

And that's another big thing: people had crushes on me. It assured me I wasn't ugly, and there wasn't something wrong with me, and I should have thanked those girls for being open about their feelings because it gave me a lot more confidence in myself. I was kinda bullied in middleschool so that meant a lot to me. It made me feel like there wasn't anything wrong with me. And...I really regret not being more gentle to those girls. I wasn't a dick, but I could've been a lot more kind.

And I also always realize when talking with friends and such...we never realize just how many people might be 'interested' and never approach us about it. Were you vocal about every single crush you ever had? Odds are, someone was interested, and they never confessed it or used a clear enough signal. And it can be hard to read those signals (I was told by several girls, including my in my family, that I was oblivious to being flirted with unless it was blatant.) Some people may never read your signals either.

A disclaimer: I am female.

There were a number of boys who had crushes on me in my teens, but I do not class any one of them as a positive experience. I don't know if this is a female-specific thing, an area thing, or if I was just very very unlucky; if I dared turn any of these boys down, I would be called ugly. If I accepted their juvenile proposal to 'go out with [them]', there would only be a few weeks of a pitiful attempt at dating before a prettier, cooler girl came along, and the boy I had just called my 'boyfriend' would tell me how ugly I was, or how much of a nerd I was compared to this new girl, in fact all girls everywhere.

I could not win. It left me feeling, up til now, that anyone who expresses interest is only doing so because there just isn't someone 'better' around. As a result, I have inadvertently put a handful of men in to that friend zone, and I feel awful for it.

 

[Shock and Awe]

Its nice to see these threads without the self pity, definitely a nice change of scenery.

OT: Friendzoning for me has never been that huge of a problem, its happened a few times but I often find myself the friendzoner rather then the friendzonie more often then not. I hate doing it because I don't want to cause unnecessary discomfort in those situations, but it has to be done. Sucks, but C'est la vie.

 

[Overusedname]

I could not win. It left me feeling, up til now, that anyone who expresses interest is only doing so because there just isn't someone 'better' around. As a result, I have inadvertently put a handful of men in to that friend zone, and I feel awful for it.

I don't think you should feel awful for it. You had crappy experiences, thus became afraid of the reactions guys would have. Like I said, we all have very different experiences with the other gender. I was drastically fortunate enough to have at least a mostly decent experience.

 

[shrekfan246]

...

Ok, we've had our fair share of friendzone threads before, but this one isn't oozing whiny conceit and self-delusion.

Odd.

Anyway, I'd be wary of using the term, as it tends to mark you out as someone that hasn't grasped that being friendly to someone does not place them under an obligation to fuck you.

It's okay, we'll get plenty of responses from people who saw 'Friend-zone' in the title and didn't even read the OP before posting.

Anyway, typically when people do use the term 'friend-zone', (to generalize here) it's often a Nice Guy[sup]TM[/sup] who actually means "This hot chick I'm interested in turned me down, that really sucks!"

Sometimes it's used by the 'nerdy' guys or the social outcasts, who feel like they've been pushed aside by all of the females they're interested in, and I've noticed that that usually happens when they're in high school.

'Being friends' with a person of the opposite gender; Of course there's nothing wrong with it. I typically make friends very easily with those of the female persuasion.

Though I do agree with this little excerpt from your OP, OP:

And I also always realize when talking with friends and such...we never realize just how many people might be 'interested' and never approach us about it. Were you vocal about every single crush you ever had? Odds are, someone was interested, and they never confessed it or used a clear enough signal. And it can be hard to read those signals (I was told by several girls, including my in my family, that I was oblivious to being flirted with unless it was blatant.) Some people may never read your signals either.

Well, I agree with a large part of the rest of it too, but I just wanted to point that out specifically because I know with 90% certainty that there were two girls who had crushes on me back when I was in high school, but neither of them ever vocalized it or ever made a move on me, and I was too bashful to ever make a move on them either. Looking back on it now, if I could back with the knowledge I have today, I'd make a move on at least one of them and hopefully find out what it could've led to. The benefits of hind-sight, eh?

 

[Lilani]

You mean I shouldn't use the term at all? Hm...I guess you're right. I certainly don't use it in my day-to-day life. I don't think being friends with women is odd or needs a special term.

But in this case, I felt otherwise people wouldn't even get what I'm referring to, ya know?

Yeah, more often than not the term "friend-zone" is used to refer to a situation in which a guy is nice to a girl he's friends with, expresses his romantic interest, is turned down, and assumes that he must have been turned down because they were friends, and girls are mentally incapable of comprehending the idea of considering the possibility of becoming romantically involved with somebody they have categorized as a "friend." Never mind that you might just not be her type, clearly it's because you're friends and that's just too much for her little mind to handle all at once.

Either that, or the guy likes a friend and (if he expresses any interest at all) shows his interest in very subtle ways without actually outright telling her he likes her, and if she doesn't reciprocate he assumes it's because their friends, and again they take that as a sign that girls simply don't have the brain power to consider a friend a possible boyfriend, which means they are stuck in the "friend zone." Because clearly just telling her outright couldn't clear up the confusion.

There are other variations, but it's always something along those lines. The girl is sabotaging their relationship because they are friends, and it's thought it's because she is totally incapable of seeing them as anything else. And all forms of it come with the narcissistic notion that because a guy likes a girl, clearly the girl must also like him, and it's just a matter of breaking down the artificial barriers she's put up because she wants to toy with him/play hard to get/can't see them as a couple. They refuse to accept the possibility that she simply may not feel the same way he feels about her. The "friend zone" is simply an artificial construct invented by lonely hearts who are looking for a way to explain their rejections and find anybody but themselves on which to place the blame. Because living in a fantasy world in which you're doing everything right but outside forces are keeping it from happening is a lot easier to swallow than simply facing that it simply might not be meant to be.

 

[Overusedname]

...

Ok, we've had our fair share of friendzone threads before, but this one isn't oozing whiny conceit and self-delusion.

Odd.

Anyway, I'd be wary of using the term, as it tends to mark you out as someone that hasn't grasped that being friendly to someone does not place them under an obligation to fuck you.

It's okay, we'll get plenty of responses from people who saw 'Friend-zone' in the title and didn't even read the OP before posting.

I'm quite fearful of this, actually.

Well, I agree with a large part of the rest of it too, but I just wanted to point that out specifically because I know with 90% certainty that there were two girls who had crushes on me back when I was in high school, but neither of them ever vocalized it or ever made a move on me, and I was too bashful to ever make a move on them either. Looking back on it now, if I could back with the knowledge I have today, I'd make a move on at least one of them and hopefully find out what it could've led to. The benefits of hind-sight, eh?

Some of my experience was similar, but I never got to know them enough.

Maybe I should've just given it a try. I'm more willing to take a chance like that now since I feel less like I'll be emotionally devastated if things don't go well. But at the time? When you're in high school it's the scariest thing ever. :I

 

[shrekfan246]

It's okay, we'll get plenty of responses from people who saw 'Friend-zone' in the title and didn't even read the OP before posting.

I'm quite fearful of this, actually.

Don't worry, it usually waits until at least the second page.

Well, I agree with a large part of the rest of it too, but I just wanted to point that out specifically because I know with 90% certainty that there were two girls who had crushes on me back when I was in high school, but neither of them ever vocalized it or ever made a move on me, and I was too bashful to ever make a move on them either. Looking back on it now, if I could back with the knowledge I have today, I'd make a move on at least one of them and hopefully find out what it could've led to. The benefits of hind-sight, eh?

Some of my experience was similar, but I never got to know them enough.

Maybe I should've just given it a try. I'm more willing to take a chance like that now since I feel less like I'll be emotionally devastated if things don't go well. But at the time? When you're in high school it's the scariest thing ever. :I

For sure. That's why I never made a move. Fear of rejection (which I still suffer from to a lesser extent). Physically speaking I'm no unique specimen, but I've got a fair amount going for me personality-wise and mentally, it was just never enough to make me not loathe myself back in high school.

Too bad there aren't any time machines, huh? If it weren't for all the damn paradoxes they'd create, I'd love having one.

 

[Overusedname]

Too bad there aren't any time machines, huh? If it weren't for all the damn paradoxes they'd create, I'd love having one.

I know right?

Unfortunately most people who go back to their childhoods, goof off and never get anything done.

...Not saying I wouldn't be one of them either.

 

[shrekfan246]

Too bad there aren't any time machines, huh? If it weren't for all the damn paradoxes they'd create, I'd love having one.

I know right?

Unfortunately most people who go back to their childhoods, goof off and never get anything done.

...Not saying I wouldn't be one of them either.

I don't get anything done now as it is.

In fact, I'm currently living the dream life of my eight-year-old self, and my twenty-year-old self absolutely hates it.

 

[DugMachine]

What an enjoyable read not filled with self pity or blaming of the opposite sex.

Friendzone is such a silly thing to me. One of my best friends in the whole world is female and we get along great and no romantic feelings. Maybe at the start of our friendship I saw it as potential romance but as time went on and nothing developed I realized that this wasn't a girlfriend but a life long friend. Why complicate things with sex and romantic feelings when one side obviously doesn't feel the same?

edit: She's actually lesbian though and has been since sophomore year in HS so maybe that's why we never dated lulz. Either way I don't care.

 

[BeeGeenie]

You mean I shouldn't use the term at all? Hm...I guess you're right. I certainly don't use it in my day-to-day life. I don't think being friends with women is odd or needs a special term.

But in this case, I felt otherwise people wouldn't even get what I'm referring to, ya know?

Yeah, more often than not the term "friend-zone" is used to refer to a situation in which a guy is nice to a girl he's friends with, expresses his romantic interest, is turned down, and assumes that he must have been turned down because they were friends, and girls are mentally incapable of comprehending the idea of considering the possibility of becoming romantically involved with somebody they have categorized as a "friend." Never mind that you might just not be her type, clearly it's because you're friends and that's just too much for her little mind to handle all at once.

Either that, or the guy likes a friend and (if he expresses any interest at all) shows his interest in very subtle ways without actually outright telling her he likes her, and if she doesn't reciprocate he assumes it's because their friends, and again they take that as a sign that girls simply don't have the brain power to consider a friend a possible boyfriend, which means they are stuck in the "friend zone." Because clearly just telling her outright couldn't clear up the confusion.

There are other variations, but it's always something along those lines. The girl is sabotaging their relationship because they are friends, and it's thought it's because she is totally incapable of seeing them as anything else. And all forms of it come with the narcissistic notion that because a guy likes a girl, clearly the girl must also like him, and it's just a matter of breaking down the artificial barriers she's put up because she wants to toy with him/play hard to get/can't see them as a couple. They refuse to accept the possibility that she simply may not feel the same way he feels about her. The "friend zone" is simply an artificial construct invented by lonely hearts who are looking for a way to explain their rejections and find anybody but themselves on which to place the blame. Because living in a fantasy world in which you're doing everything right but outside forces are keeping it from happening is a lot easier to swallow than simply facing that it simply might not be meant to be.

I think that explanation is a bit simplistic and mean-spirited.
The "friend-zone" occurs when one person is getting what they want out of a relationship (friendship) and the other is not (a "relationship"). Obviously, if one person is dissatified it's not just because he(or she, by the way) is a narcissistic jerk, it's because they're dissatified.
The main problem with people in the "friend-zone" is indecision: do they completely end the friendship, thus freeing themselves of the dissatisfaction, or maintain the friendship even though it's not satisfying their needs... Though granted the only reason they keep it up is usually the hope that the situation will change. (It generally won't as long as the other person is still getting everything they want from the relationship.) If both parties are satisfied, then neither is in the friend zone. If neither party is satisfied, then the friendship is bound to end sooner than later.

It has nothing to do with getting rejected. Being upset about getting rejected is fairly normal, and blaming the other person is a defense mechanism that happens to pretty much everyone to some degree. Though when rationality will kick in depends on the individual.

TL;DR: "Friend-zone" isn't about just getting rejected. It's about failure to recognize and end a dysfunctionally imbalanced relationship.

 

[Stasisesque]

Not another one! My only regret is that I do not have a high ledge with which to hurl myself from. I do have this pen knife, though. So here goes nothing!

It's okay, we'll get plenty of responses from people who saw 'Friend-zone' in the title and didn't even read the OP before posting.

I'm quite fearful of this, actually.

Don't worry, it usually waits until at least the second page.

It didn't wait.

We should have taken bets.

 

[Overusedname]

Not another one! My only regret is that I do not have a high ledge with which to hurl myself from. I do have this pen knife, though. So here goes nothing!

It's okay, we'll get plenty of responses from people who saw 'Friend-zone' in the title and didn't even read the OP before posting.

I'm quite fearful of this, actually.

Don't worry, it usually waits until at least the second page.

It didn't wait.

We should have taken bets.

*sigh*

Shouldn't 'read something before you respond to it' be a given? :/

 

[shrekfan246]

Not another one! My only regret is that I do not have a high ledge with which to hurl myself from. I do have this pen knife, though. So here goes nothing!

It's okay, we'll get plenty of responses from people who saw 'Friend-zone' in the title and didn't even read the OP before posting.

I'm quite fearful of this, actually.

Don't worry, it usually waits until at least the second page.

It didn't wait.

We should have taken bets.

We can still salvage this thread. There's no reason it needs to escalate any further.

Spoiler: Tangentially related to how these threads usually go around here.

 

[Overusedname]

snip

I think that explanation really covers why I really dislike that term. Because it never seems to mean anything just neutral. It seems to have more to it than just saying the girl doesn't have feelings, but wants to be friends. If it were just that, it really wouldn't need a word.

I kinda have to agree. I rarely see people use it in a way that doesn't demonize the person who did the 'friendzoning'. But that's just my experience.