New Trump pardons - feed the swamp!

[Agema]

Trump Grants Slew Of Pardons, Including To George Papadopoulos And Duncan Hunter

In all, President Trump granted full pardons to 15 individuals and commuted part or all of the sentences of an additional five.

www.npr.org

So... 15 full pardons and 5 commutations, including:

Four military contractors who committed a massacre of at least 14 civilians in Iraq (another 18 wounded)
Two Trump cronies convicted in the course of the Mueller probe
Three politicians: a former congressman (R) who illegally used campaign funds for personal benefit, a former congressman (R) convicted of insider trading, a former congressman (R) convicted of fraud and money laundering.
A dentist best buddy of Trump's Housing Secretary convicted of healthcare fraud

Most of the rest were people who committed nonviolent drug offences.

 

[Shadyside]

People are saying that he is trying to give more attention to the stimulus bill so no one notices the pardons.

 

[Worgen]

People are saying that he is trying to give more attention to the stimulus bill so no one notices the pardons.

Oh yeah, that would be something to expect from him. Usually he only seems to have a good take if hes pulling something else and wants to hide it under the rug.

 

[SilentPony]

People are saying that he is trying to give more attention to the stimulus bill so no one notices the pardons.

Its too early for that. He wouldn't waste the air time on pardons not for his family. As as much as I disagree with him, pardons for non-violent drug crimes is a welcome sight, even if his brain is too drug addled to know it.

 

[Shadyside]

So when is he going to pardon himself and his kids?

 

[Agema]

So when is he going to pardon himself and his kids?

He'll probably leave that until later, but he's just pardoned Charles Kushner (his son-in-law's dad; tax evasion and witness tampering). Also Paul Manfort, Roger Stone (who previously had his sentence commuted).

This might be legal, but it's not just.

 

[bluegate]

One criminal covering for other criminals.

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

Eugh. This walking cancer should've been euthanised already.

 

[ralfy]

The swamp gets what it wants.

 

[SilentPony]

This might be legal, but it's not just.

It actually depends. Pardons can't be sold or traded away, and there are politicians who want to take it before the supreme court that a pardon in exchange for not cooperating in an investigation into the President is a quid pro quo. And the Supreme Court gets to decide the length and breath of pardons. They can just remove the pardon, or say the pardon only lasted 30 seconds, or whatever.
Plus Pardons are not allowed to be applied to future crimes, so they can all be summoned before a new grand jury, and they can't incriminate themselves for past crimes, but if they lie again, its a brand new crime.

and all these pardons piss off the FBI and the Justice Department, so they'll have an axe to grind with this.

 

[Worgen]

It actually depends. Pardons can't be sold or traded away, and there are politicians who want to take it before the supreme court that a pardon in exchange for not cooperating in an investigation into the President is a quid pro quo. And the Supreme Court gets to decide the length and breath of pardons. They can just remove the pardon, or say the pardon only lasted 30 seconds, or whatever.
Plus Pardons are not allowed to be applied to future crimes, so they can all be summoned before a new grand jury, and they can't incriminate themselves for past crimes, but if they lie again, its a brand new crime.

and all these pardons piss off the FBI and the Justice Department, so they'll have an axe to grind with this.

Maybe.

 

[Agema]

It actually depends.

The point of pardons in a country that aspires to Rule of Law should be to promote justice, often through correcting injustice. I can accept pardons for excessive or unsafe sentences. I can accept pardons for exemplars of rehabilitation and good conduct. I can accept pardons for historical crimes from breaking laws now regarded as thoroughly stupid or unfair.

At the point pardons are handed out pettily to friends and family as rewards and special favours, it is a slap in the face of justice. Thus I don't accept pardons for spurting the jizz into a woman that later turns into the president's son-in-law.

 

[SilentPony]

At the point pardons are handed out pettily to friends and family as rewards and special favours, it is a slap in the face of justice. Thus I don't accept pardons for spurting the jizz into a woman that later turns into the president's son-in-law.

That's why its considered corruption and people are wondering if these pardons can stand up in court.

 

[Agema]

That's why its considered corruption and people are wondering if these pardons can stand up in court.

I would take the basic assumption that the power of presidential pardon is extraordinarily broad. Honestly, I suspect literally the only person the president can't legally pardon is himself, because that would fall under the fundamental legal principle that a person cannot be judge of his own trial.

 

[SilentPony]

I would take the basic assumption that the power of presidential pardon is extraordinarily broad. Honestly, I suspect literally the only person the president can't legally pardon is himself, because that would fall under the fundamental legal principle that a person cannot be judge of his own trial.

Well and the Constitutional definition of "Grant" means something to be offered between two parties, so Trump can't Grant himself a pardon because he's still only one party.
And Government officials can't be bribed to take actions, and not testifying against someone has been seen as a quid pro quo action in the past. So Trump pardoning someone in exchange for them not testifying against him will almost certainly be seen as a bribe

 

[Shadyside]

Is this the most blatant use of pardoning so many criminals and shady people in any administration? I hope this comes back to bite him in the ass once he stops being president and prosecutors get to him.

 

[Agema]

Is this the most blatant use of pardoning so many criminals and shady people in any administration? I hope this comes back to bite him in the ass once he stops being president and prosecutors get to him.

It won't. Not much, anyway.

When you think about all the shit they've let fly already, do you really think this is going to bother them? Okay, the love affair may curdle eventually, like the way that loads of people gung-ho about invading Afghanistan and Iraq gradually morphed into anti-war hardliners, but we're talking years.

 

[Generals]

I think we all misunderstood "Drain the swamp". People thought it would mean "Drain the corruption out of Washington DC" but what Donald Trump meant was "Drain the last bit of Ethics remaining out of Washington DC".

 

[SilentPony]

I think we all misunderstood "Drain the swamp". People thought it would mean "Drain the corruption out of Washington DC" but what Donald Trump meant was "Drain the last bit of Ethics remaining out of Washington DC".

I think its important to remember in nature a Swamp is a beautiful ecosystem, rich in plant life, fish, birds, big cats, frogs/lizards/alligators. Its not something that we humans should be fucking with, and here we have Trump, probably the worst human of the last 50 years, and his go-to metaphor is destroying a natural environment. Draining the Swamp is all well and good, unless you're living there

 

[tstorm823]

I think its important to remember in nature a Swamp is a beautiful ecosystem, rich in plant life, fish, birds, big cats, frogs/lizards/alligators. Its not something that we humans should be fucking with, and here we have Trump, probably the worst human of the last 50 years, and his go-to metaphor is destroying a natural environment. Draining the Swamp is all well and good, unless you're living there

Ok, Shrek.