I beat the game last year, and this thought has been festering in my mind ever since: Why would you join Caesar's Legion? It seems like the entire design of the game pushes you away from them, towards the NCR or an independent Vegas.
The Legion is supposed to be based off of the "Make a wasteland and call it peace" mentality of Rome, but you never see it in action. The only people on the Legion's side you meet that aren't legionnaires are slaves(EDIT: Other than Dale Barton, a trader who is not a 'citizen' of the Legion who seems to only care about safe roads); you never get to explore any of the lands that they claim are so peaceful. This seems major; after fighting raiders and mutant animals every step of the way across NCR-controlled Mojave, it would definitely make you notice if there was a place free from random encounters, where you could see citizens living outside of the fortified camps everyone else requires.
Similarly, The NCR puts up farms, operates power plants, resurrects lost tech, and does all sorts of creative activity. Meanwhile, all the Legion seems to do is destroy (Nipton and Nelson being prime examples, as the first time you meet the Legion and the most obvious way to re-establish contact respectively). While they build a nice base at Fortification Hill, their lack of high-tech equipment and rewards makes allying with them less appealing for the average player, who will be carrying as much tech as possible. Having Caesar mock those who use robots to fight battles and rely on guns rather than blades is a definite turn-off.
And the biggest problem is the most obvious: the Legion is barbaric. Slavery, misogyny, crucifixion, genocide; everything that makes the Legion stand out makes them seem terrible to modern eyes. There would need to be really clear and hefty advantages (ideologically or gameplay-wise) to joining them to make you overlook that (unless you are consciously repressing every modern moral while you role-play, which is an option), but I just can't find them.
So that's my take. What do you think, Escapists? Is there a reason to join the Legion? (I know some of you did) What makes them better than your other options?
EDIT: Something I forgot to mention is the complete lack of companion support for the Legion. Take it away, Hagi:
EDIT 2: J.E. Sawyer, project director and lead designer, released a bit of background info on life in Arizona under Legion rule (spoilered below). Basically they live under a secure military dictatorship: there's plenty of food, water and power, but the Legion occasionally asks you to do things and expects them done (with dire consequences if you don't immediately do it). Areas like this were cut from the final game, which is too bad; seeing a place of abundance, safety and strict governmental control would provide an excellent contrast to the Mojave.
The Legion is supposed to be based off of the "Make a wasteland and call it peace" mentality of Rome, but you never see it in action. The only people on the Legion's side you meet that aren't legionnaires are slaves(EDIT: Other than Dale Barton, a trader who is not a 'citizen' of the Legion who seems to only care about safe roads); you never get to explore any of the lands that they claim are so peaceful. This seems major; after fighting raiders and mutant animals every step of the way across NCR-controlled Mojave, it would definitely make you notice if there was a place free from random encounters, where you could see citizens living outside of the fortified camps everyone else requires.
Similarly, The NCR puts up farms, operates power plants, resurrects lost tech, and does all sorts of creative activity. Meanwhile, all the Legion seems to do is destroy (Nipton and Nelson being prime examples, as the first time you meet the Legion and the most obvious way to re-establish contact respectively). While they build a nice base at Fortification Hill, their lack of high-tech equipment and rewards makes allying with them less appealing for the average player, who will be carrying as much tech as possible. Having Caesar mock those who use robots to fight battles and rely on guns rather than blades is a definite turn-off.
And the biggest problem is the most obvious: the Legion is barbaric. Slavery, misogyny, crucifixion, genocide; everything that makes the Legion stand out makes them seem terrible to modern eyes. There would need to be really clear and hefty advantages (ideologically or gameplay-wise) to joining them to make you overlook that (unless you are consciously repressing every modern moral while you role-play, which is an option), but I just can't find them.
So that's my take. What do you think, Escapists? Is there a reason to join the Legion? (I know some of you did) What makes them better than your other options?
EDIT: Something I forgot to mention is the complete lack of companion support for the Legion. Take it away, Hagi:
I hear there was originally supposed to be a Legion-positive companion (Ulysses from the Lonesome Road DLC), but his removal makes the Legion even harder to support.Hagi said:
EDIT 2: J.E. Sawyer, project director and lead designer, released a bit of background info on life in Arizona under Legion rule (spoilered below). Basically they live under a secure military dictatorship: there's plenty of food, water and power, but the Legion occasionally asks you to do things and expects them done (with dire consequences if you don't immediately do it). Areas like this were cut from the final game, which is too bad; seeing a place of abundance, safety and strict governmental control would provide an excellent contrast to the Mojave.
[link]http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/325677464040792162[/link]
"The additional Legion locations would have had more traveling non-Legion residents of Legion territories. The Fort and Cottonwood Cove made sense as heavy military outposts where the vast majority of the population consisted of soldiers and slaves. The other locations would have had more "civilians". It's not accurate to think of them as citizens of the Legion (the Legion is purely military), but as non-tribal people who live in areas under Legion control.
While Caesar intentionally enslaves NCR and Mojave residents in the war zone, most of the enslavement that happens in the east happens to tribals. As Raul indicates, there are non-tribal communities that came under Legion control a long time ago. The additional locations would have shown what life is like for those people.
The general tone would have been what you would expect from life under a stable military dictatorship facing no internal resistance: the majority of people enjoy safe and productive lives (more than they had prior to the Legion's arrival) but have no freedoms, rights, or say in what happens in their communities. Water and power flow consistently, food is adequate, travel is safe, and occasionally someone steps afoul of a legionary and gets his or her head cut off. If the Legion tells someone to do something, they only ask once -- even if that means an entire community has to pick up and move fifty miles away. Corruption within the Legion is rare and Caesar deals with it harshly (even by Legion standards).
In short, residents of Legion territories aren't really citizens and they aren't slaves, but they're also not free. People who keep their mouths shut, go about their business, and nod at the rare requests the Legion makes of them -- they can live very well. Many of them don't care at all that they don't have a say in what happens around them (mostly because they felt they never had a say in it before the Legion came, anyway)."
"The additional Legion locations would have had more traveling non-Legion residents of Legion territories. The Fort and Cottonwood Cove made sense as heavy military outposts where the vast majority of the population consisted of soldiers and slaves. The other locations would have had more "civilians". It's not accurate to think of them as citizens of the Legion (the Legion is purely military), but as non-tribal people who live in areas under Legion control.
While Caesar intentionally enslaves NCR and Mojave residents in the war zone, most of the enslavement that happens in the east happens to tribals. As Raul indicates, there are non-tribal communities that came under Legion control a long time ago. The additional locations would have shown what life is like for those people.
The general tone would have been what you would expect from life under a stable military dictatorship facing no internal resistance: the majority of people enjoy safe and productive lives (more than they had prior to the Legion's arrival) but have no freedoms, rights, or say in what happens in their communities. Water and power flow consistently, food is adequate, travel is safe, and occasionally someone steps afoul of a legionary and gets his or her head cut off. If the Legion tells someone to do something, they only ask once -- even if that means an entire community has to pick up and move fifty miles away. Corruption within the Legion is rare and Caesar deals with it harshly (even by Legion standards).
In short, residents of Legion territories aren't really citizens and they aren't slaves, but they're also not free. People who keep their mouths shut, go about their business, and nod at the rare requests the Legion makes of them -- they can live very well. Many of them don't care at all that they don't have a say in what happens around them (mostly because they felt they never had a say in it before the Legion came, anyway)."
