On downloading games illegally

[RomanceIsDead]

I will admit I have never downloaded a game illegally. One might say I have wasted hundreds of dollars. (At least, that's what my friends tell me). And I realize the economics behind it suggest that most gamers who download games illegally wouldn't have bought the game anyway. Essentially they are free advertisement for the people who do pay.

I don't know if I believe this. If you were poor, you wouldn't be able to afford a high end PC would you? Anyway I digress...

I'm wondering what you guys think. Maybe someone who is better at economics than me can explain the price elasticity a bit better. Here are some other questions that have come to my mind. How is downloading PC games illegally any more abhorrent than buying used games? And if you knew you could download PC games illegally without any fear of repercussions, would you steal all your games?

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I will admit I have never downloaded a game illegally. One might say I have wasted hundreds of dollars. (At least, that's what my friends tell me). And I realize the economics behind it suggest that most gamers who download games illegally wouldn't have bought the game anyway. Essentially they are free advertisement for the people who do pay.

I don't know if I believe this. If you were poor, you wouldn't be able to afford a high end PC would you? Anyway I digress...

I think I see your problem, and it's the bolded part.

Saying that someone would not have bought the game had they not downloaded it illegally does not imply that they could not afford the game, it only implies that they wouldn't have wanted it enough to spend money on it.

Let me make an example:

Say a guy has very little interest in the game Crysis 2. He thinks that the game looks kind of interesting, but not good enough to commit money to buying it when there are tons of other games coming out that he is MUCH more interested in. Now lets say that he has a bunch of friends who keep pressuring him to get the game so that they can play the multiplayer together. The guy wants to play with his friends, but he doesn't really want the game. In this case the guy will download the game illegally. He doesn't want to spend money on it, not because he can't afford it, but because he just isn't that interested in the game to begin with. Now if he plays the game and ends up enjoying it, he's more likely to buy future iterations of the game, because he liked the one he downloaded, and he realizes that the games are in fact worth his money. This this case there's no payoff to the devs from the game he pirated, but if the game is in fact good, then there will be more profits for them in the future.

That's all there is, being poor does not factor in to the argument.

 

[Swifty714]

Watch Extra credits video on piracy.

 

[Savagezion]

How is downloading PC games illegally any more abhorrent than buying used games?

First off, even though the money doesn't go to the publishers and developers directly, it does go into the industry. Gamestop does offer jobs and they also have a business to run. I don't think that publishers are really "looking out for them" so it is up to retailers to look out for themselves or they will go under. I don't see why people have this argument that retailers should be "looking out" for the publishers and developers.

Money from used games helps retailers be able to offer more to consumers, which is good for us and thus good for business. (And really, good for publishers and developers) You think Gamestop's new rewards system is a deal a publisher offered them? Hell no. Is it because they are trying to pull in business by offering more beyond a 10% bonus to used stuff? Probably.

And if you knew you could download PC games illegally without any fear of repercussions, would you steal all your games?

Just a side note, it is against forums rules to answer this question with a "yes" as that condones piracy. This is one of many "gaming" sites where despite piracy being a hot button issue in the industry, we are not allowed to discuss it from both sides. Everything concerning piracy must be addressed with the attitude of "piracy is bad, and I would never do it in a million years, m'kay?" My honest answer is no, but don't expect this question to be answered without a large bias to "no" as per escapist rules.

 

[RomanceIsDead]

I will admit I have never downloaded a game illegally. One might say I have wasted hundreds of dollars. (At least, that's what my friends tell me). And I realize the economics behind it suggest that most gamers who download games illegally wouldn't have bought the game anyway. Essentially they are free advertisement for the people who do pay.

I don't know if I believe this. If you were poor, you wouldn't be able to afford a high end PC would you? Anyway I digress...

I think I see your problem, and it's the bolded part.

Saying that someone would not have bought the game had they not downloaded it illegally does not imply that they could not afford the game, it only implies that they wouldn't have wanted it enough to spend money on it.

Let me make an example:

Say a guy has very little interest in the game Crysis 2. He thinks that the game looks kind of interesting, but not good enough to commit money to buying it when there are tons of other games coming out that he is MUCH more interested in. Now lets say that he has a bunch of friends who keep pressuring him to get the game so that they can play the multiplayer together. The guy wants to play with his friends, but he doesn't really want the game. In this case the guy will download the game illegally. He doesn't want to spend money on it, not because he can't afford it, but because he just isn't that interested in the game to begin with. Now if he plays the game and ends up enjoying it, he's more likely to buy future iterations of the game, because he liked the one he downloaded, and he realizes that the games are in fact worth his money. This this case there's no payoff to the devs from the game he pirated, but if the game is in fact good, then there will be more profits for them in the future.

That's all there is, being poor does not factor in to the argument.

Well that makes quite a bit of sense now that you mention it but answer this, why wouldn't they just download the next iteration for free?

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I will admit I have never downloaded a game illegally. One might say I have wasted hundreds of dollars. (At least, that's what my friends tell me). And I realize the economics behind it suggest that most gamers who download games illegally wouldn't have bought the game anyway. Essentially they are free advertisement for the people who do pay.

I don't know if I believe this. If you were poor, you wouldn't be able to afford a high end PC would you? Anyway I digress...

I think I see your problem, and it's the bolded part.

Saying that someone would not have bought the game had they not downloaded it illegally does not imply that they could not afford the game, it only implies that they wouldn't have wanted it enough to spend money on it.

Let me make an example:

Say a guy has very little interest in the game Crysis 2. He thinks that the game looks kind of interesting, but not good enough to commit money to buying it when there are tons of other games coming out that he is MUCH more interested in. Now lets say that he has a bunch of friends who keep pressuring him to get the game so that they can play the multiplayer together. The guy wants to play with his friends, but he doesn't really want the game. In this case the guy will download the game illegally. He doesn't want to spend money on it, not because he can't afford it, but because he just isn't that interested in the game to begin with. Now if he plays the game and ends up enjoying it, he's more likely to buy future iterations of the game, because he liked the one he downloaded, and he realizes that the games are in fact worth his money. This this case there's no payoff to the devs from the game he pirated, but if the game is in fact good, then there will be more profits for them in the future.

That's all there is, being poor does not factor in to the argument.

Well that makes quite a bit of sense now that you mention it but answer this, why wouldn't they just download the next iteration for free?

Obviously they could, and some people do. But in that case, why doesn't EVERYONE download ALL games for free? It's not like it's that hard, and pretty much any game can be downloaded for free, but for some reason, only a small percentage of people actually do that. Most are willing to spend money for their hobby.

 

[RomanceIsDead]

Watch Extra credits video on piracy.

That was a good video, but the guy talking sounds like a chipmunk. I have to agree with him. People that say a game sucks and then download it illegally can't justify not paying.

 

[RomanceIsDead]

I will admit I have never downloaded a game illegally. One might say I have wasted hundreds of dollars. (At least, that's what my friends tell me). And I realize the economics behind it suggest that most gamers who download games illegally wouldn't have bought the game anyway. Essentially they are free advertisement for the people who do pay.

I don't know if I believe this. If you were poor, you wouldn't be able to afford a high end PC would you? Anyway I digress...

I think I see your problem, and it's the bolded part.

Saying that someone would not have bought the game had they not downloaded it illegally does not imply that they could not afford the game, it only implies that they wouldn't have wanted it enough to spend money on it.

Let me make an example:

Say a guy has very little interest in the game Crysis 2. He thinks that the game looks kind of interesting, but not good enough to commit money to buying it when there are tons of other games coming out that he is MUCH more interested in. Now lets say that he has a bunch of friends who keep pressuring him to get the game so that they can play the multiplayer together. The guy wants to play with his friends, but he doesn't really want the game. In this case the guy will download the game illegally. He doesn't want to spend money on it, not because he can't afford it, but because he just isn't that interested in the game to begin with. Now if he plays the game and ends up enjoying it, he's more likely to buy future iterations of the game, because he liked the one he downloaded, and he realizes that the games are in fact worth his money. This this case there's no payoff to the devs from the game he pirated, but if the game is in fact good, then there will be more profits for them in the future.

That's all there is, being poor does not factor in to the argument.

Well that makes quite a bit of sense now that you mention it but answer this, why wouldn't they just download the next iteration for free?

Obviously they could, and some people do. But in that case, why doesn't EVERYONE download ALL games for free? It's not like it's that hard, and pretty much any game can be downloaded for free, but for some reason, only a small percentage of people actually do that. Most are willing to spend money for their hobby.

There is definitely something enjoyable in purchasing. It feels like your hard work is rewarding you I guess...

 

[Phlakes]

le snip

But games are a luxury. That would be like if the guy's friends want him to come with them to an expensive restaurant, but he doesn't really want to, so he just doesn't pay the bill.

There is definitely something enjoyable in purchasing. It feels like your hard work is rewarding you I guess...

HOLY CHRIST THANK YOU FOR SPELLING "DEFINITELY" CORRECTLY. This entire day I keep seeing people doing it wrong, lots of "definatly"s, and this is an amazing break from all that.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

le snip

But games are a luxury. That would be like if the guy's friends want him to come with them to an expensive restaurant, but he doesn't really want to, so he just doesn't pay the bill.

I never said it was either good or logical, all I said was that it has nothing to do with being poor.

 

[Phlakes]

le snip

But games are a luxury. That would be like if the guy's friends want him to come with them to an expensive restaurant, but he doesn't really want to, so he just doesn't pay the bill.

I never said it was either good or logical, all I said was that it has nothing to do with being poor.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to argue, just building off of your post.

 

[Mikkaddo]

I will admit I have never downloaded a game illegally. One might say I have wasted hundreds of dollars. (At least, that's what my friends tell me). And I realize the economics behind it suggest that most gamers who download games illegally wouldn't have bought the game anyway. Essentially they are free advertisement for the people who do pay.

I don't know if I believe this. If you were poor, you wouldn't be able to afford a high end PC would you? Anyway I digress...

I'm wondering what you guys think. Maybe someone who is better at economics than me can explain the price elasticity a bit better. Here are some other questions that have come to my mind. How is downloading PC games illegally any more abhorrent than buying used games? And if you knew you could download PC games illegally without any fear of repercussions, would you steal all your games?

Developers and Publishers would have you believe buying used games is the same as downloading them illegally, hence the DRM that allows only a limited number of installs and such.

However, if you ARE poor, you can still afford a last generation PC, and get some free emulators for everything from NES to PS2 and Gamecube, downloading those games is the same as downloading computer games that are brand new illegally becasue it's the same "crime".


Now, here's the thing, downloading a game illegally can be wrong, but it's a matter of WHY I think. For instance, let's take the idea of downloading a copy of the high score new computer game "SHOOTER GUY RPG 18!" you looked at it in the store, and it was $60 like anything else, then you read up on it online and in magazines to find out the DRM could BREAK YOUR COMPUTER if you install the game, it's not for consoles so the ONLY way to play it is on pc. And even if you take out the console argument, DRM has been proven time and again to be damaging, toxic, and overall POINTLESS. Downloading it "illegally" however, would get you the same game, at a grand total of $0 USD (or other currency) but without the horrifying DRM that would destroy your system and cause you to buy an all new HDD or possibly motherboard as well. Sure you're committing a crime, but by the same coin aren't they committing a crime by punishing you for buying it with their nightmarish DRM? the only difference being you can (I think you still can) be arrested for downloading a game illegally, where as currently the developer/publisher gets not even a slap on the wrist for pc MELTING DRM on their games.

 

[Mikkaddo]

There is definitely something enjoyable in purchasing. It feels like your hard work is rewarding you I guess...

HOLY CHRIST THANK YOU FOR SPELLING "DEFINITELY" CORRECTLY. This entire day I keep seeing people doing it wrong, lots of "definatly"s, and this is an amazing break from all that.

And with browsers like Firefox actually saying "THAT IS SPELLED WRONG" and allowing you to see the correct spelling people really shouldn't have an excuse anymore for it.

 

[Dorian6]

Extra Credits covered this a few months ago.

They pretty much summed up my opinion

 

[OrenjiJusu]

The only technically illegal game downloads that i have made have been abandonware. and thats just purely because they are no longer in circulation.

 

[Erana]

How is downloading PC games illegally any more abhorrent than buying used games?

I have no idea how people decided that buying used video games was amoral.

"The developers don't get any money for it!"
No, they did when they first sold the game. Then that consumer gave up their individual license, and thus right to the game, when they sold it to me.
With pirates,

No new copies are made there. And the idea that the developer should get a cut for every transaction an individual product is involved in is like saying that I should mail money to a factory when I buy a used bicycle, or be a sinister thief.

Sure, it sucks for the devs, but for God's sake, that's no reason to put me at the level of a common criminal!

 

[Grospoliner]

If I see a game I am interested in that I do not have 100% confidence in. I will typically download a demo, and pending that, look for an iso. If I enjoyed the product, I will generally always purchase the game.

 

[2fish]

Saying that someone would not have bought the game had they not downloaded it illegally does not imply that they could not afford the game, it only implies that they wouldn't have wanted it enough to spend money on it.

Let me make an example:

Say a guy has very little interest in the game Crysis 2. He thinks that the game looks kind of interesting, but not good enough to commit money to buying it when there are tons of other games coming out that he is MUCH more interested in. Now lets say that he has a bunch of friends who keep pressuring him to get the game so that they can play the multiplayer together. The guy wants to play with his friends, but he doesn't really want the game. In this case the guy will download the game illegally. He doesn't want to spend money on it, not because he can't afford it, but because he just isn't that interested in the game to begin with. Now if he plays the game and ends up enjoying it, he's more likely to buy future iterations of the game, because he liked the one he downloaded, and he realizes that the games are in fact worth his money. This this case there's no payoff to the devs from the game he pirated, but if the game is in fact good, then there will be more profits for them in the future.

That's all there is, being poor does not factor in to the argument.

I don't but that excuse since most pirates I know could care less. They steal first game and for excuse (too much money, shitty developer, DRM, demo game, ect). Then the next game comes out and they loved the first one. Do they pre order? Hell no they pirate "just in case the game sucks" they don't want to "waste money due to hype".

Pirates are going to pirate and gamers are going to buy games.

Now as to the real reason I posted.

1. Those "friends" sound likes asses, pressuring you to get a game? Granted I do know that guy and he can be annoying but not enough to make you change your buying habit.

2. If you wouldn't buy something that looks like crap/not your cup of tea why would you steal it?

 

[RomanceIsDead]

I will admit I have never downloaded a game illegally. One might say I have wasted hundreds of dollars. (At least, that's what my friends tell me). And I realize the economics behind it suggest that most gamers who download games illegally wouldn't have bought the game anyway. Essentially they are free advertisement for the people who do pay.

I don't know if I believe this. If you were poor, you wouldn't be able to afford a high end PC would you? Anyway I digress...

I'm wondering what you guys think. Maybe someone who is better at economics than me can explain the price elasticity a bit better. Here are some other questions that have come to my mind. How is downloading PC games illegally any more abhorrent than buying used games? And if you knew you could download PC games illegally without any fear of repercussions, would you steal all your games?

Developers and Publishers would have you believe buying used games is the same as downloading them illegally, hence the DRM that allows only a limited number of installs and such.

However, if you ARE poor, you can still afford a last generation PC, and get some free emulators for everything from NES to PS2 and Gamecube, downloading those games is the same as downloading computer games that are brand new illegally becasue it's the same "crime".


Now, here's the thing, downloading a game illegally can be wrong, but it's a matter of WHY I think. For instance, let's take the idea of downloading a copy of the high score new computer game "SHOOTER GUY RPG 18!" you looked at it in the store, and it was $60 like anything else, then you read up on it online and in magazines to find out the DRM could BREAK YOUR COMPUTER if you install the game, it's not for consoles so the ONLY way to play it is on pc. And even if you take out the console argument, DRM has been proven time and again to be damaging, toxic, and overall POINTLESS. Downloading it "illegally" however, would get you the same game, at a grand total of $0 USD (or other currency) but without the horrifying DRM that would destroy your system and cause you to buy an all new HDD or possibly motherboard as well. Sure you're committing a crime, but by the same coin aren't they committing a crime by punishing you for buying it with their nightmarish DRM? the only difference being you can (I think you still can) be arrested for downloading a game illegally, where as currently the developer/publisher gets not even a slap on the wrist for pc MELTING DRM on their games.

This is another issue that I never even considered until I saw that video. I agree with you and I think that it's rather surprising that developers are not at least trying to reward their paying customers more.

On a side note, is it also true that head programmers for these games are not being paid well? At least the video hinted at that. I always thought that their salaries were decent. These are men and women with degrees in engineering after all.