Optional bosses

[DarkSeraphim02]

Recently I pulled my PSP out of hibernation and played a bit of Final Fantasy IV the after years.

While wandering around I came across Omega, the optional boss that has been in the series since FF5 if I remember correctly. As you can imagine, the fight with Omega did not go very well, I managed to keep myself going for awhile, but eventually he proceeded to do a four legged version of river dance all over my team. I've never beaten Omega in any Final Fantasy game he's appeared in outside of 13-2.

I've played many an RPG and fought all kinds of bosses, including many optional ones, usually I beat them eventually, such as Yiazmat from FF12, which took me 4 hours because the bugger has about 15 million HP and hits like a freight train on steroids. However some optional bosses are just unkillable for me, such as Omega.
Perhaps I'm simply not going into the fight with him with the proper preperations and strategy, I've seen some people fight him and make him look easy.

Currently I'm trying to take on the DLC boss Gilgamesh in FF13-2, I have the physical power to fight him, but given his tendency to fully heal himself after recovering from being staggered, and there being no way to prevent this that I'm aware of, my only option is to stagger him and slam him with attacks that reduce his max HP, which is 9,999,999, by about 2 to 5 thousand a hit, which is going to take a month of sundays. Chip damage, ho!

What do you guys think of optional boss fights in games and what kind of experiences have you had with them?

 

[xPrometheusx]

They're fun if they offer a tangible reward that doesn't hurt the game in some way. Good example being Borderlands, for both sides.

On one hand, I really love the concept behind the optional bossfights in the game - kill an enemy, they have a chance of dropping a good gun, and you get a loot chest or two after. The loot isn't game-breakingly good, except for sometimes, but it's unique and good enough that you might consider getting it if you have some spare time. I can think of a lot of games that would/could benefit from this - Bethesda games are another 'does it right' example, and meanwhile you have something like... Bioshock, where if they implemented more stuff for completionists, it'd only add to the game. Imagine if in Infinite, they added half a dozen more vigors, or better yet, made the upgrades more accessible. So you get a lightning vigor, and an hour or two down the line, you happen to stumble across the sidequest that says "kill this themed boss and now your lightning can chain to people!" It's already in the game, but it feels more like a reward than a purchase.

The problem is the other side though, where the optional bosses are no longer 'optional.' Again, take borderlands as an example. If you want to REALLY beat the game, truly, you have to get the rarest stuff. The rarest stuff happens to drop more frequently from the optional bosses, but isn't an assured drop. So now you HAVE to go kill the optional boss on the chance you get the gun, so that you can go kill the other, harder optional bosses and ACTUALLY complete the game.

Still... overall, I don't think I've ever had much of a negative experience with optional bosses. If someone's looking for a way to add more content in a development dead-zone without impacting the game too much, it's a good way to provide a little more cushion. Good discussion topic, thanks for bringing it up.

 

[Tragedy's Rebellion]

I love optional bosses in games, especially if they are fun, semi-hard to locate and give phat loot! It also provides more content which is always nice. At the top of my head I remember DA:O having a lot of optional bosses that are awesome like Gaxkang and one of the High Dragons.

I don't remember any negative experiences associated with optional bosses. Unless you are forced to do them (which aren't optional anymore) I don't see how they can pose a problem for me.

 

[The Wykydtron]

Ehhhh, they're alright I guess. I would never bother to beat all of them unless they're somehow super interesting and as fun as the proper bosses.

They are usually damn hard as well. That Contrarian King in Persona 4 man... You beat the first proper boss! You've done this dungeon before! You got this man!

"LOL RAMPAGE!"

*entire party killed from one attack*

"Fuck."

It's the game telling you that it ain't pulling no punches from here on son.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

It's the game telling you that it ain't pulling no punches from here on son.

That's what we call a Wake Up Call Boss. My least favorite type of boss in any game. .-.

Spoiler: Tales of Graces f semi spoilery optional bosses

Gloandrake, Duplewyrm and Forbrawyvern. These three fuckers. Pain in the ass to fight. Especially Forbrawyvern. Go fight that thing and I sincerely hope you know what you're doing. Or that beast will fuck you in the ear as it kicks your mom's ass and effectively begins World War III.

Yiazmat's been mentioned. That thing's beyond ridiculous. So much so that I didn't even bother trying it out.

Deadbeard in Golden Sun is quite a Superboss. Completely optional and I'm not entirely sure he's worth fighting. He's much, much more powerful than the final boss and he can easily wipe the whole party out in just two turns, or even a single turn if you're not careful.

Same thing applies to Dullahan in Golden Sun: The Lost Age. Except you get the most powerful summon in the game once you kill Dullahan. The irony in this? By the time you're strong enough to take on Dullahan, the final boss is a mini-boss in comparison.

 

[ShinyCharizard]

Optional bosses are the best. My favourites are the ones in the Final Fantasy games (particularly in FFX) and Kingdom Hearts.

 

[Bug MuIdoon]

Optional bosses are where it's at! I'm the kind of person who really enjoys a challenge, even if it's impossible. Though I have mixed feelings about FFX and FFXIII, you can't deny there's some nice optional bastards on both games. I think the FF series probably has the best collection of optional boss battles out of any game series. There's some alright ones to be found in 'the pile of turd' that is FFXIII. Yes, they're quite easy compared to previous title's additions, but still worth hunting down. Heck, they're probably the only things worth playing XIII for. I really liked Yiazmat for the challenge, as OP mentioned, but Omega or King Cactuar (from VIII) have to take the crown as best optional bosses for me.

 

[regalphantom]

Same thing applies to Dullahan in Golden Sun: The Lost Age. Except you get the most powerful summon in the game once you kill Dullahan. The irony in this? By the time you're strong enough to take on Dullahan, the final boss is a mini-boss in comparison.

Technically, there IS a combo that you can pull off to kill Dullahan quickly with even a non-grinded party (using a certain setup will allow you to rapidly chain powerful summons and kill Dullahan extremely quickly) which doesn't work effectively against the Doom Dragon due to the bosses 3-stage nature. But even ignoring that, optional bosses far more powerful than the final boss are kinda a staple of RPG's as they give you an extra challenge on your next play through.

 

[Yopaz]

Extra content in my game offering new challenges? I love it!

Optional bosses and sidequests are things I usually save for my second playthrough, but I try my best to beat them all. I had some pretty devious ones in Tales of graces F... Took me half an hour to kill one because I was 30 levels below the recommended level.

 

[crimson sickle2]

I love overpowered optional bosses, they just have a certain charm you only find in video games. The feeling of really reaching the top of the tower. Final bosses have a tendency to die by the power of friendship a little too often. I was a little disappointed Revengeance didn't have any optional bosses other than that white cat though, fighting Bayonetta would have been an awesome dream sequence. I'm a fan of the RPG ones I've played so far, but the ones requiring a certain team comp to even be playable, or any fight that requires some trick to fight instead of strategy or reflexes, usually feels disappointing.

 

[BytByte]

Radiata Stories has an entire optional dungeon with loads of optional bosses, including a 2D dinosaur colored in by children, Star ocean bosses, and a nearly naked Adonis like character that fights partly with his ass. Ohmigawditissupahcool

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

I think they're great. Although there's no such thing as an optional boss for me, being the completionist I am, optional bosses allow me at least to decide for myself when I want to beat them, and essentially allow you to tailor your own difficulty. It also gives the developers a chance to have a really nuanced or difficult boss fight without halting the game.

 

[V da Mighty Taco]

I've played many an RPG and fought all kinds of bosses, including many optional ones, usually I beat them eventually, such as Yiazmat from FF12, which took me 4 hours because the bugger has about 15 million HP and hits like a freight train on steroids.

Actually Yiazmat has 50 million hp, not 15 million. He also gets a buff later on in the match that reduces the amount of damage you deal, including dropping the damage cap of 9,999 to I believe around 7,999 iirc. Explains a lot, doesn't it?

Captain Nitpick, AWAY! *flies off into the sunset*

Captcha: "nul points"

 

[sextus the crazy]

The only ones I can think of at the moment are the legendaries from pokemon. Easy to kill, but a ***** to capture. Also, they've got awesome music usually.

 

[Oroboros]

I love Optional bosses, I think they can be a fun sort of side challenge for the game, something to *really* test your mettle agaisnt once you have mastered the rest of the game. A lot of older rpgs, both Jrpgs and wrpgs had this. I remember fighting the Archmage/Berzerker in Breath of Fire III and the various optional dragon bosses in Baldur's Gate II with equal fondness.

The *one* thing that an optional boss should not be is connected to the main quest, or to the ending in some way where the palyer would logically want to defeat them but not have the chance in a 'normal' playthrough. For me, a game that exemplifies this failing would have to be Avadon: The Black Fortress. In which a Demon King and redbeard himself are both 'optional' bosses that are 'optional boss' difficulty. the problem being that narratively, there is no logical reason for you to ignore the demon lord threatening to destroy the continent- yet he is ridiculously difficult to fight when you meet him, while the game constantly bombards you with motives and nudges for overthrowing redbeard, yet when the moment comes, not only is he possibly the most tedious/deadly opponent in the game, but the entire 'rebel' path turns out to be a sort of hidden ending, in that the content for it is sorely lacking and msotly copy/pasted from the loyalist ending. Terribly disapointing.

Another problem with another spiderweb game, in Geneforge 2, when you finally track down barzhal and confront him for all the bad stuff he has done, you really don't get the chance to work agaisnt him, only the offer to work for him, despite him doing the most to screw you over out of all the other factions that have screwed you over. yeah, you can chuck a fireball at him right then and there, or challenge his second in command to an (unfair) duel for his own crimes but you will be lucky to last a single combat round at that point, despite the narrative basically leading you to him. If you want to remain loyal, you are basically forced to grind umpteen billion levels until you can come back and win with brute force, at that point being 'loyal' is basically the 'optional' route in terms of difficulty, which IMO is just horrible.


The ideal optional boss should be optional not only from a gameplay perspective, but also from a narrative one. At no oint should you be thinking 'I should really kill this fellow right now, but I won't be able to until I am max level with the best equipment'

 

[Lawnmooer]

Optional bosses tend to be great fun to fight (Usually involving interesting mechanics that managed to escape the rest of the game) and quite challenging.

The issue I run into is oftentimes in JRPG's the optional bosses are tuned to high level equipment and at or near max level (Which is some cases is 999 or higher) which generally means it take hours upon hours of mindless grinding before you can even attempt them properly.

That said, I have enjoyed many optional bosses in Final Fantasy, Disgea, Shadow Hearts and many other games

 

[NightmareExpress]

I often wonder why some of them weren't the final boss to begin with.
Seriously, there are some optional dudes that make the game's big bad look puny.
Rather than dying by some plot device, they have to be killed by grinding/bug bites/ridiculous feats of skill.

I like them in terms of gameplay, but it baffles me why someone so exponentially more powerful than anyone else is just kind of sitting there. Unless, of course, it's explained that they're a neutral third party that's basically waiting for a challenger and is otherwise content with the state of the world.

 

[krazykidd]

I play a lot of Jrpgs . And i love their secret bosses . My absolute favorite being Elizabeth from Persona 3 . The harder the boss. The more i like it , and she's the absolute hardest from what i've played . Honorable mention goes to SMT : Noctune hard mode . So many opitional bosses , so damn challenging . I LOVE IT .

 

[Soxafloppin]

Recently I've been playing through MK: Shaolin Monks with a friend on PS2, It has a few optional bosses, which makes sense to me since its an adventure game based on a fighting game series. They all give nice rewards too!

We've fought Mileena and Ermac so far, I think the only remaining one is Kano but I can't remember right now.