People we see as "evil", are we being ignorant of their brilliance?

[cyber_andyy]

I just posted this in another thread about great dictators, leaders ect.

Hitler.

NO NO! hear me out. He had an AMAZING amount of drive and charisma. he managed to grab a whole nation, depressed and wounded, and bring hope into its eyes. When he spoke, he spoke with passion, he ignited the crowds. Not many men can compete with Hitler's level of determination, charisma, and the ability to give hope to people.

Don't get me wrong, he had the wrong ideas and did many terrible unforgivable things, but you have to see past the idea you have and see what made that person able to do what he did... There are many racist's and evil beings out thier, but not many can do what hitler managed.

I got a reply of this

but i still believe that if he wasn't batshit crazy paranoid and anti-semetic and never did any of the crazy shit he did (holocaust, WW2 etc.) then today we'd be regarding hitler as one of the greatest leaders to ever grace the face of the earth.

This got me thinking about what these people are really like.

So my questions to you all is this:
Are these "evil" people simply misguided?
Should they be treated as the "evil" people that people see them as?
Is "evil" just brilliance used in the wrong way?

 

[Avatar Roku]

I believe, with Hitler being the exception that proves the rule, that there is no real evil out there. Everybody has reasons.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

I dunno, Hitler and his confidants seems like one of the few examples of true evil in the world and let us not forget that he used Hate, Fear and Murder as a means to jumpstart his country.

 

[sirdanrhodes]

If only Hitler was for the Allies!

 

[poleboy]

I don't believe in "evil". There are only opposing views and possibly mental confusion/derangement. The concepts of good and evil belong in the worlds of fiction and religion, not attributed to humans or any other sentient being.

 

[cyber_andyy]

let us not forget that he used Hate, Fear and Murder as a means to jumpstart his country.

True, True.

Hitler was the only example i could think of, any other examples where this might be occuring?

An idea for general "evil" people? excluding hitler?

 

[curlycrouton]

I think there are plenty of people just as evil as Hitler was, it's just that Hitler, due to special and coincidental circumstances, managed to get into a position of power. The moment he got into power the German people were effectively doomed. Even if the Axis had won the war Hitler would have bought Germany down.

But there's quite enough of Hitler on the internet, don't you think?

 

[Imperialist Joe]

Good and Evil are subjective. To the average Wehrmacht grunt, an Allied soldier was the "Bad Guy," and needed killing.

 

[Mythbhavd]

Oh, there are undoubtedly some brilliant evil rulers out there. I don't think that evil is misguided. It is deliberate use of what you have in ways that harm others. In the case of people like Nero, Hitler, and others, they use their brilliance to harm rather than help. Do they have their reasons? Sure. In fact, I'm sure they think they're good reasons. However, deliberately using that which makes them great to harm the greatest amount of people shows a true dedication to evil.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

Nero is an interesting example,

He was thoroughly crazy, but introduced some really good public policy. He also probaby DIDN'T fiddle while Rome burned. He takes a lot of flak because he was hated by the Roman nobility for his populist politics and was demonized by the Christians because he, you know, crucified them and fed them to lions with glee.

 

[corporate_gamer]

If only Hitler was for the Allies!

Remember who was for the allies, Stalin. The only person ever to beat Hitler in the paranoia and murdering top trumps.

 

[Beetlejooce]

Its an interesting point. And its the same with Osama bin Laden. Now i'm not saying what he's done is good, but it's motivated by religion. And himself and the people that follow him believe that the attacks and bombings will get them into heaven. And i find it hard to condemn somebody for doing what they believe, because, who knows, maybe they are right. And I do not by any means condone the attacks on innocent civilians but they aren't doing it for fun, or financial gain, they do it because they believe it's the right thing to do.

Many "evil" men in the world are motivated by beliefs. But for most it is just money or racism.

But it's something to think about.

 

[Ongaru]

wow, i inspired a thread, i feel special

what is good and evil really is a matter of opinion.

hitler believed that the holocaust was an act of "cleansing", he wanted to make Germany a great empire.

this seems to be the case a lot with racist groups regardless of race, they see their agenda as a good act while others see it as an act of evil.

it all depends on the opinion of the majority.

 

[curlycrouton]

If only Hitler was for the Allies!

Remember who was for the allies, Stalin. The only person ever to beat Hitler in the paranoia and murdering top trumps.

What I find most creepy about Stalin is the following tale:

When Stalin held a speech, he'd often make the whole crowd clap and shout "Stalin! Stalin!" over and over again. The scary part is, the first person to stop doing so would be shot. This caused clapping marathons of varying, but mostly great, length.

 

[Milkatron]

Well, look at it this way.

I have heard people praise the Spanish Inquisition, another hateful act of murder. I look at it and say that those people were, by my definition, evil. And yet people have praised them. Would this not be enough proof that evil, much like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder?

 

[cyber_andyy]

What I find most creepy about Stalin is the following tale:

When Stalin held a speech, he'd often make the whole crowd clap and shout "Stalin! Stalin!" over and over again. The scary part is, the first person to stop doing so would be shot. This caused clapping marathons of varying, but mostly great, length.

A WWII joke:

One day stalin wanted to see what his people really thought, so, disguising himself he went to a local theatre to watch the news reels. Once the reels began playing, pictures of himself were displayed, to Stalins delight every one lept out of their chairs and started clapping and cheering. Stalin was still sitting and smiling when the man next to him lent over and said "most of us hate him to but its safer to stand up my comrade."

 

[corporate_gamer]

If only Hitler was for the Allies!

Remember who was for the allies, Stalin. The only person ever to beat Hitler in the paranoia and murdering top trumps.

What I find most creepy about Stalin is the following tale:

When Stalin held a speech, he'd often make the whole crowd clap and shout "Stalin! Stalin!" over and over again. The scary part is, the first person to stop doing so would be shot. This caused clapping marathons of varying, but mostly great, length.

What I find most creepy about Stalin is the following tale:

When his first born son tried to commit suicide by shooting himself and the attempt failed Stalin just said 'he can't even do that right.' and when his son was captured by the Nazi during the second world war and they offered to trade him for field marshal Paulus he said 'why would i trade soldier for field marshal?"

 

[s0denone]

Haven't we seen this kind of thread way too much?

Yes, Hitler was evil.
No, Hitler wasn't "misunderstood", he did everything he did, deliberately.

Perhaps SOME PEOPLE are misunderstood, and of course EVIL AND GOOD are perceptions unique to almost every person on the planet.

But every person that debates whether or not Stalin/Hitler did bad(EVIL) things, I will report personally. I have German family, and the dear Adolf has caused actual Germans to hate their own country.

You need to get your Hitler story straight, though. Hitler didn't win the election by saying "I WILL KILL ALL THAT OPPOSE ME!" or "I WILL KILL ALL JEWS, HANDICAPS, ..." He exploited the weakness of a weeping and bleeding country (He exploited the people quite ingeniously though) and then started his non-sub-rosa campaign of death and terror after he had converted a fair share of people to his "Good" cause. He then killed defectors, and people were scared into following his ideals.

Much like black people are the biggest racists (against other black people) for having their ethnicity being known for crime and illegal business. Germans are the biggest anti-Nazis in the world.

Effectively Hitler was so bad(EVIL) that you can't find a single computer game, or a single movie (Except a few, most of which turn cult) where Germans are portrayed as anything other than Nazis and/or evil people/those you're supposed to kill.

Feel free to debate whether or not good/bad are moral projections of oneself, but if the discussion falls on whether or not Stalin/Hitler/Whoever WAS bad, rather than perhaps why people percieved him as bad, then I will report you.

 

[GenHellspawn]

Feel free to debate whether or not good/bad are moral projections of oneself, but if the discussion falls on whether or not Stalin/Hitler/Whoever WAS bad, rather than perhaps why people percieved him as bad, then I will report you.

Why? Good and Evil or not universal constants, you know.

 

[cyber_andyy]

Haven't we seen this kind of thread way too much?

Yes, Hitler was evil.
No, Hitler wasn't "misunderstood", he did everything he did, deliberately.

Perhaps SOME PEOPLE are misunderstood, and of course EVIL AND GOOD are perceptions unique to almost every person on the planet.

But every person that debates whether or not Stalin/Hitler did bad(EVIL) things, I will report personally. I have German family, and the dear Adolf has caused actual Germans to hate their own country.

You need to get your Hitler story straight, though. Hitler didn't win the election by saying "I WILL KILL ALL THAT OPPOSE ME!" or "I WILL KILL ALL JEWS, HANDICAPS, ..." He exploited the weakness of a weeping and bleeding country (He exploited the people quite ingeniously though) and then started his non-sub-rosa campaign of death and terror after he had converted a fair share of people to his "Good" cause. He then killed defectors, and people were scared into following his ideals.

Much like black people are the biggest racists (against other black people) for having their ethnicity being known for crime and illegal business. Germans are the biggest anti-Nazis in the world.

Effectively Hitler was so bad(EVIL) that you can't find a single computer game, or a single movie (Except a few, most of which turn cult) where Germans are portrayed as anything other than Nazis and/or evil people/those you're supposed to kill.

Feel free to debate whether or not good/bad are moral projections of oneself, but if the discussion falls on whether or not Stalin/Hitler/Whoever WAS bad, rather than perhaps why people percieved him as bad, then I will report you.

I dont think anyone is denying that what he did was evil and sickening, stalin was cruel and disturbing. terrorists are using some grey areas to cause harm to people that may not even want to cause damage to their countrys, which is wrong. the point im making is that are we not seeing through/around this and seeing that what they did was quite a feat, managing to exploit/use/whatever the people to achieve thier evil goals.

Also IMO germans need not hate their country as only ignorant fools still hold things against the germans and should be ignored. Germany is a good country today and we should follow it (espec britain) in its policys