"Piracy hurts the user as well as the creators..." or does it?

[Aurgelmir]

Today, 28th April I am going to see Iron Man 2 at the cinema. (Yay!)
In 9 days it is released in the US.

11 years ago I had to wait several months to see Star wars episode 1 where I live (Norway).

I am guessing Europe is getting Iron Man 2 ahead of the US due to internet leaking of big movies. So to avoid lost sales due to piracy in Europe the movie is released a week in advance.

So I must ask myself, as a European that has been a victim to late releases his whole life:

Have I been hurt by piracy?

My answer is "no, I have won a lot because of it"

These days I get the games about the same time as the US, I get my movies earlier... even TV shows are closer to the original release dates of the US... So how am I being hurt?

So what is your opinion on piracy hurting the customer?

PS: Well I guess the US is being hurt a bit by it, sorry guys welcome to our would
PSS: Lets leave DRM talks out of this, since it's not the main topic.

 

[TelHybrid]

I totally agree. I am sick of territories outside of the US being screwed over with release dates, or in some cases, not even receiving releases.

 

[Rednog]

I'm confused how you're trying to use your anecdote as evidence to prove a point?
I don't know if you've noticed or not, but a lot of pirate movies come from outside the states. Ever notice the Russian or other languages on some pirated copies? I seriously doubt that a majority of pirated movies come from the US. You can get thrown out for bringing food to a theater, out in Europe most places don't care if you bring in a loaded backpack.
And when you talk about TV shows, you might want to think that maybe it isn't a whole Europe thing, out in Poland Lost and Prison Break just started to air on TV. That's pretty far behind.

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

Let's put it this way for an EXTREME scenario...that slightly hurts the user in the long run.

"Game Developer A loses X amount of money to piracy. Game Developer A then can't invest X amount of money into making new games. Consumer A gets inferior product due to lesser funding."

Of course, piracy hasn't hurt anyone to such a degree that they can't afford to make keep making games/movies. Yet. And let's assume this is a small time dev. Not one with deep pockets.

"Band A loses X amount of sales to piracy. Band A decides to stop making new albums. Fan A is sad that favorite band stopped making new albums."

Well, that probably happened to some band that no one gives a shit about, actually.

 

[Rednog]

I totally agree. I am sick of territories outside of the US being screwed over with release dates, or in some cases, not even receiving releases.

I hope you realize that games aren't simply shipped overseas and distributed. Other companies come into play with translations and local laws. These are extra hoops that developers have to jump through and the only way for them to get it out on time would probably have to finish the game a month or so ahead to get everything done for an over sea release. It makes more sense to finish a game and release it as soon as you can to the customers that it can reach directly instead of a bunch of games sitting in a warehouse waiting for other companies to get there act together for a world release.
Japan has the same thing, why not cry about that too, why point the finger solely at the US?
And things have gotten significantly better in terms of release, honestly if you can't wait a week or so for a release anymore than that is more of a personal problem instead of a problem with the company.

 

[DigitalSushi]

A good thing that has come out of piracy is the very thing your saying, I get to see Iron Man 2 as soon as possible!, WHOOP WHOOP!

Combating piracy was the very reason The Matrix Revolution had a simultanious world wide release, it worked because at the time it was the biggest box office opening (or one of the biggest), chances are if it had been released in the US first and subsequently pirated for other territories no one would have gone to the cinema to see it because it was shit.

I do admit I have pirated, not because I want to steal shit but because I wanted to enjoy it again, I went to see "District 9" 4 times in the cinema's, but when it weren't showing anymore I pirated it so I could watch it again. I now own it on DVD and Blu Ray (smug face)

I watch it on Blu Ray if I want my full surround sound high def experience and I watch it on DVD when I want to save money.

 

[xDarc]

You can't put a dollar value on piracy because sharing reproducible works has NEVER been theft because nothing is LOST.

Also realize that many entertainment projects, movies especially- see returns easily approaching 100%.

Have you guys ever played the stocks? Do you know what a "good" hedge fund manager can promise his clients? A savvy investor payed millions of dollars to manage multi-billion dollar accounts of his client's money? 30-40% annually. Tops.

Entertainment makes a ridiculous killing as it stands and if they can't make due, they need to start learning better money management because I won't shed a single god damn tear for them.

 

[DigitalSushi]

I'm confused how you're trying to use your anecdote as evidence to prove a point?
I don't know if you've noticed or not, but a lot of pirate movies come from outside the states. Ever notice the Russian or other languages on some pirated copies? I seriously doubt that a majority of pirated movies come from the US. You can get thrown out for bringing food to a theater, out in Europe most places don't care if you bring in a loaded backpack.
And when you talk about TV shows, you might want to think that maybe it isn't a whole Europe thing, out in Poland Lost and Prison Break just started to air on TV. That's pretty far behind.

Pirating movies and games is *looks around*

*hushed tone of voice*
...Triad territory

Thats right children buying pirate DVD's in a flea market is giving money to Chinese gangsta's!

 

[TelHybrid]

I totally agree. I am sick of territories outside of the US being screwed over with release dates, or in some cases, not even receiving releases.

I hope you realize that games aren't simply shipped overseas and distributed. Other companies come into play with translations and local laws. These are extra hoops that developers have to jump through and the only way for them to get it out on time would probably have to finish the game a month or so ahead to get everything done for an over sea release. It makes more sense to finish a game and release it as soon as you can to the customers that it can reach directly instead of a bunch of games sitting in a warehouse waiting for other companies to get there act together for a world release.
Japan has the same thing, why not cry about that too, why point the finger solely at the US?
And things have gotten significantly better in terms of release, honestly if you can't wait a week or so for a release anymore than that is more of a personal problem instead of a problem with the company.

It's purely bitterness over stuff like for example the fact we never got Chrono Cross released here ever, didn't get Chrono Trigger until the DS port, didn't get any Final Fantasy games until VII.

I'm sorry I upset your corporations. Don't need to defend them anymore. It's ok...

 

[Estocavio]

I totally agree. I am sick of territories outside of the US being screwed over with release dates, or in some cases, not even receiving releases.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Vampire cat]

I only download things I'm unsure about. If I like it, I buy it. If I don't, I won't. For me piracy works like a great insurense that the product I'm buying is something I actually want. Back in the day I would buy games and then later find out how much they sucked. Now I don't have that problem!

I'm not sure how the consumer is losing with piracy. Maybe because if they keep losing money the quality of their work will decline? Only time will tell =3. If they wont my buy they will have to make something worth buying in any case!^^

... where I live (Norway).

Norge! Wheeey!

 

[Vitor Goncalves]

Dont think its just related to piracy, if related at all. They are just seeing Europe a market as important US. I would guess its more like if you receive a movie in europe 2 weeks to one month after US and the reviews were not that great by the american public, chances are many european people will change their minds about seeing it.

Yet:

http://www.news.com.au/technology/delayed-australian-release-boosts-avatar-towards-top-of-most-pirated-blu-ray-ever/story-e6frfro0-1225859226078

 

[Aurgelmir]

I'm confused how you're trying to use your anecdote as evidence to prove a point?
I don't know if you've noticed or not, but a lot of pirate movies come from outside the states. Ever notice the Russian or other languages on some pirated copies? I seriously doubt that a majority of pirated movies come from the US. You can get thrown out for bringing food to a theater, out in Europe most places don't care if you bring in a loaded backpack.
And when you talk about TV shows, you might want to think that maybe it isn't a whole Europe thing, out in Poland Lost and Prison Break just started to air on TV. That's pretty far behind.

Sure off course not every country gain anything from what I am saying. But there has to be some reason for them to wait a whole week to release Both Iron Man 2 and Kick-Ass. (which are the two movies I know was released earlier in Parts of Europe)

And my anecdote, isn't an anecdote at all. Nor is it Evidence. But it is me pointing out a trend.
There s a trend that a lot of Europe is being viewed as a more lucrative market (I think) in an effort to negate piracy.

But all in all I stand by my statement:

Piracy isn't just harming us, it is also forcing the industries to change their ways.

But as long as companies are willing to view piracy as an actual market competitor they will start gaining more sales.

Sure they cant compete on price, but what are the other reasons for you to buy a legitimate product? Other than "Because its the legal/right thing to do"?

That is what I am getting at. Piracy has forced the industries to shift its business models, in order to compete with pirates.

 

[Aurgelmir]

Dont think its just related to piracy, if related at all. They are just seeing Europe a market as important US. I would guess its more like if you receive a movie in europe 2 weeks to one month after US and the reviews were not that great by the american public, chances are many european people will change their minds about seeing it.

Also:

http://www.news.com.au/technology/delayed-australian-release-boosts-avatar-towards-top-of-most-pirated-blu-ray-ever/story-e6frfro0-1225859226078

So you are saying one thing, but at the same time proving my point with your link?

Sure reviews factor in to it all. Don't know if anyone remember the Ang Li Hulk fiasco? Where "reviews" of the pirate version of the movie is credited as the reason why it went badly.

So without piracy they would have hustled a lot of people into seeing a bad movie? (I saw it at the big screen fyi)

 

[zen5887]

Of course it does.

A example that comes to mind straight away is DRM in music and games. If no one was pirating, then there would be no need for DRM.

On a more extreme case, I believe that some of the "evils" in the music industry is because of piracy. Record companies are losing money so they are afraid of taking ricks, stunting the growth of music (although, the modern DIY culture has done a lot to counter this).

 

[Vitor Goncalves]

Dont think its just related to piracy, if related at all. They are just seeing Europe a market as important US. I would guess its more like if you receive a movie in europe 2 weeks to one month after US and the reviews were not that great by the american public, chances are many european people will change their minds about seeing it.

Also:

http://www.news.com.au/technology/delayed-australian-release-boosts-avatar-towards-top-of-most-pirated-blu-ray-ever/story-e6frfro0-1225859226078

So you are saying one thing, but at the same time proving my point with your link?

Sure reviews factor in to it all. Don't know if anyone remember the Ang Li Hulk fiasco? Where "reviews" of the pirate version of the movie is credited as the reason why it went badly.

So without piracy they would have hustled a lot of people into seeing a bad movie? (I saw it at the big screen fyi)

Hangover, half my brain cells are still shutdown, sorry for that. Yes I actually wanted to say piracy is not the only thing that probably is being taking in consideration, but plays an important role. And let me add that in case of TV shows is pretty much more because european TV networks have much more limited budgets to invest, so they cant risk buying the broadcasting rights of an expensive show that might turn into a fiasco.

 

[WolfLordAndy]

Another good thing of piracy is TV release dates are now much closer together between the US and EU (well, UK atleast!).

Southpark for example is only a few days behind the brand new release in the states. This is due to people watching all the shows online because we didn't want to wait another year/6 months before seeing everything, which in todays information age, theres no reason not to show everything globally on the same day/week.

While I realise games are a bit different to films and television that at most need subtitles/dubbing, surely even games release in the US have alternate languages built in for spanish/french to at least cater for South America/Canada?

 

[Aurgelmir]

Of course it does.

A example that comes to mind straight away is DRM in music and games. If no one was pirating, then there would be no need for DRM.

On a more extreme case, I believe that some of the "evils" in the music industry is because of piracy. Record companies are losing money so they are afraid of taking ricks, stunting the growth of music (although, the modern DIY culture has done a lot to counter this).

As I said in my original post, DRM is an obvious problem. But that is actually only in a small part of the overall entertainment industry.
As for music, as you mentioned, the music industry is really not helping their own cause. They have been trying for years to force "their way" on to us.

All companies want to have the most control as they can over their product, because that way they can dictate the course of it. But when someone comes along and offers a better deal for the customer, the customer will change their attitude.

For a long time we bought Music on CDs. Then the internet came, along with MP3s. So a lot of people started to download music, because it was more convenient and free.
Some smart people recognized this change in customer behavior, and found a way to make a profit off it. I-Tunes is an example of this.

Personally I use Spotify, which is a great program for music. Sadly it is not available in many countries yet. But what it has done is changed the way I have access to music, enabling me to enjoy more music for free or at a higher quality for a fee.

I doubt Spotify would have existed, if the industry was always in control of how we as consumers have access to our entertainment. Because right now Spotify isn't making much money, but give products like this a chance and we might see that there are huge profits in this.

Yet another example of how piracy has lead to something better for the consumer.