Piracy

[newwiseman]

For all those who haven't seen the report yet.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/11/piracy-problems-us-copyright-industries-show-terrific-health.ars

Bottom line the recent report shows that even if piracy is hurting the copyrighted industries, which has been widely debated as false, the truth is that those industries are still very strong. Job remains mostly stable through the recession and sales have even improved in foreign markets.

*sarcasm: I certainly hope that the Protect IP act gets passed fast before all this piracy kills the industry.

 

[b3nn3tt]

So what? Regardless of how much piracy is or isn't hurting the industry, people are still getting something that would otherwise cost money for free. That can't be justified by saying 'well, it isn't hurting the industry.'

 

[Rude as HECK]

Once again, a moral claim to intellectual property is asserted with no basis. Besides- anyone who thinks "getting something for nothing" is anywhere near a workable definition of theft, or piracy, really needs to do some rethinking.

 

[newwiseman]

I'm not taking a side on piracy. I'm just stating all the evidence and facts are showing that piracy isn't putting a dent in the copyrighted industries. It'd be nice if there was a report showing how much the industries have lost fighting piracy. From the trend of evidence over the last year I wouldn't be surprised if more money was spent trumpeting the horrors of piracy on the industries, than is actually lost by those industries.

*edit And that draconian copyright laws are for worse on everyone than piracy is.

 

[Rude as HECK]

Piracy is bad. It is not debatable that it hurts the industry. If even ONE person would have bought the product had the pirated verision not been available then there is financial damage to the industry. Additionally if even ONE company anywhere cut their prices to make piracy less attractive then there is financial damage to the industry.

Stop making excuses to take other people's property and hurt them through your own greed and selfishness.

As for "yeah, but they make lots of money anyway", does that mean its ok if I steal from you since you are making lots of money anyway?

Ok, now use arguments and not rhetoric and maybe we'll get somewhere.

 

[Something Amyss]

So what? Regardless of how much piracy is or isn't hurting the industry, people are still getting something for nothing. There is no excuse for that.

What's the solution, then? Spend thousands or millions of dollars that could go into development or profit?

Do not take this as an endorsement of piracy. The problem is, going after people doing it throwing good money after bad. It's diminishing returns, it's pointless and stupid. Beyond which, aggressive actions have NOT stopped piracy from occurring.

 

[Rude as HECK]

Copyright, ultimately, is not an issue of property rights, but an issue of public policy. It should only be tolerated to the extent that it can be demonstrated to have beneficial results. Sadly, some people seem to take some bullshit quasi-Objectivist "Ideas are property" line, without thinking it through.

 

[newwiseman]

Copyright, ultimately, is not an issue of property rights, but an issue of public policy. It should only be tolerated to the extent that it can be demonstrated to have beneficial results. Sadly, some people seem to take some bullshit quasi-Objectivist "Ideas are property" line, without thinking it through.

The "ideas are property" concept is actually Patent law not copyright law, and is so wholly ridiculous and undefended at this point I won't even bother arguing for it.

To break it down the Patent is the idea and the copyright is the implementation. Basically the difference between "this app will update itself" and the actual methodology and code used.

 

[Rude as HECK]

Copyright, ultimately, is not an issue of property rights, but an issue of public policy. It should only be tolerated to the extent that it can be demonstrated to have beneficial results. Sadly, some people seem to take some bullshit quasi-Objectivist "Ideas are property" line, without thinking it through.

The "ideas are property" concept is actually Patent law not copyright law, and is so wholly ridiculous and undefended at this point I won't even bother arguing for it.

To break it down the Patent is the idea and the copyright is the implementation. Basically the difference between "this app will update itself" and the actual methodology and code used.

Actually, it's not true in patent law either. You own the right to exploit your patentable invention,not the idea itself. But in both copyright and patent law, the de facto result is legal right of control over the expression of ideas. The whole concept of the idea-expression dichotomy, used by so many advocates of IP, ultimately is merely semantic.

 

[b3nn3tt]

So what? Regardless of how much piracy is or isn't hurting the industry, people are still getting something for nothing. There is no excuse for that.

What's the solution, then? Spend thousands or millions of dollars that could go into development or profit?

Do not take this as an endorsement of piracy. The problem is, going after people doing it throwing good money after bad. It's diminishing returns, it's pointless and stupid. Beyond which, aggressive actions have NOT stopped piracy from occurring.

I actually completely agree with you, the way that companies are trying to combat piracy are absolutely not the right way to be going about things. To take a popular example, DRM is an awful anti-piracy measure; at best it slows down the time it takes to crack the game, whilst at the same time it punishes those who buy the game legitimately.

I think a much better way of approaching the problem, rather than trying to stop pirates, is to offer incentives for buying the actual game. That, or make the DRM such that legitimate buyers aren't inconvenienced in any way. A good example of this was the Arkham Asylum thing when it was released, where a certain mechanic didn't work in the pirated version, which rendered it unplayable after a certain point. No problems for legitimate buyers, but a huge issue for pirates.

 

[Gamblerjoe]

I love how everyone tries to defend their own acts of piracy. If you're such an entitled brat that you think you deserve something you didn't pay for or earn, I can't imagine how you would react to owning a business and having people steal from you.

 

[Rude as HECK]

Those aren't rhetoric, they are facts.

As demonstrated by the economic studies you so rigorously pointed us towa- oh.

Now give some reasons why its ok to steal someone else's IP.

Because the idea of a right to legally protected IP rights is a myth without basis. How's that?

 

[Rude as HECK]

You don't need a scientific study to see that its brighter when the sun is visable. Which of the facts I gave gives you any reason to doubt it to be a fact?

The empirical research surrounding IP is the very definition of a quagmire. There is no consensus regards any claim you have made.

It's not a myth, its accepted law that has grown over time. You might not like it, you might think it shoudl change, but you look silly saying that it doesn't exist when it does.

If you're going to talk about law, do so. Do not conflate it with moral principles.
I'm attacking the concept of intellectual property as some sort of natural or human right. The positivist legal side of the argument is separate.

 

[Nurb]

It's all that "potential sales" crap. If you use the same legal language those developers do, people who rent books at the library are stealing from book publishers. Hell negative game reviews make them lose potential sales too.

I don't have any sympathy for the big game publishers with the way they treat customers anyway.

 

[ElPatron]

I love how everyone tries to defend their own acts of piracy. If you're such an entitled brat that you think you deserve something you didn't pay for or earn, I can't imagine how you would react to owning a business and having people steal from you.

Before you read my post, take into account that I am not trying to justify piracy as I don't see "sharing a game that is not available at any store, physical or online, and that was made by companies that don't even exist today" as piracy.


Now back to the matter at hand. You think those people who "stole" Blops would give profit to Activision anyway? They did not feel like voting with their wallets anyway. If they had waited for friends to finish the game and borrow it, or just buy it used, profit would not be generated anyway.

Activision should thank them. GameStop & Friends could have gotten more profit from Treyarch's work if those pirates did not fight the menace that used games are.



See how it works both ways? Everyone has rotten morales in this industry, and if your logic can be used against you it probably means you are no better anyway.



Allow me to exploit the law and earn 60 million bucks overnight, "Bobby Kotick-style," and I won't care if you and a million others steal games from me.