Playboy and the objectification of women

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Unesh52

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May 27, 2010
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[img_inline height=350 src=http://www.bannedinhollywood.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/carmen-electra-playboy-cover.jpg]

I just watched a Daily Show skit. The subject matter of the bit was the recent announcement that Hugh Hefner might have to sell the Playboy mansion. I'll spare you the set up, but the punch line was along the lines of "Hugh Hefner's playboy empire will fall due a failure to differentiate between women and pieces of meat." (If you want to watch it, you can find the episode it's in on the Daily Show's web site. It's the November 30th episode.)

Now, I found this a little surprising, in that it portrays Playboy as objectifying and tasteless. Admittedly, the closest proximity I've had to a Playboy in the age of free porn would be Mafia 2, though I've heard people, casually and professionally, talking about it. However, I have seen some spreads, and they're a far cry from tasteless -- but maybe that's because I've been desensitized by the internet. Moreover, I recall from some TV show (a History special on James Bond I believe) that at it's inception, Playboy represented feminine independence and women's rights. It wasn't until the feminist movement of the late 60s and early 70s (I think that's when that movement happened; does that sound right?) that the public perception of Playboy soured.

Thing is, I thought we'd gotten over that as a culture (keep in mind I'm talking about America). The only thing about Playboy that nets it a charge of sexism and objectification is that it makes female sexuality a salable trait, and I just don't see how that's good enough. The feminist ideal of realizing the potential of a woman beyond a sex symbol is a noble one, but the rejection of women as sex symbols entirely, or ignoring the fact that women are sexy, is as inane and counterproductive as it comes. Sex is not and should not be the only thing which defines and gives value to a woman, but it should be one thing that does, out of many. For a woman to deny her sex appeal is self-defeating, and for a man to ignore his desire for those women is stifling. A trade based on sexuality is just as valid as one based on the ability to hit a ball well, and it's just as inherently degrading.

Don't get me wrong, some works of entertainment media are objectifying and unambiguously misogynistic, but I don't think Playboy is one of them. As far as I can tell, it's as tasteful as pornography can get without classifying any photo of a woman porn. To charge even Playboy with objectifying women is to deny the morality of satisfying one's desires with or making a living with pornography. That's just ridiculous to me.

Or is it just that Playboy's a little bluer than I've been lead to believe?

[HEADING=2]TLDR:[/HEADING]
Is Playboy misogynistic and does it objectify women? If so, is it possible for pornography in general to be tasteful and morally acceptable as entertainment?

The crux of the joke was really that Playboy's tastelessness is responsible for the current level of financial instability it's suffering, which implies that the modern market has rejected it on moral grounds. But that just seems blatantly false, since as far as I can tell, people still love porn. The lower price (to free), higher availability, and greater variety of internet pornography is to blame. That and the wishy-washy economy strangling everyone's expendable income. Admittedly, there are some faults to internet porn (less quality, malware risk) but the pros just far outweigh the cons here.

EDIT: Man, the image I added won't show up.
 

Macgyvercas

Spice & Wolf Restored!
Feb 19, 2009
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Playboy is by no means what I would call good for the image of women, but it's far more tastefully done than some other porn mags I've come across.
 

bassdrum

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Oct 6, 2009
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Pirate Kitty said:
Women are beautiful. Some women choose to show their bodies off and get paid to feel sexy.

Good on them.

Nothing misogynistic ere.
Pretty much this. Nobody made them take off their clothes and be photographed, the women themselves decided that that's what they wanted to do. Sure, Playboy is a company which thrives on physicality and lust, but it's a bit stupid to say that the magazine is misogynistic for allowing women to make money this way (and even if you did assign blame, you'd have to assign it pretty much equally to the photographers, publishers, models, customers...).

In a nutshell, it's a low blow on the part of the Daily Show that's not entirely fair.

Also, the feminist movement originally thought that Playboy was awesome, because it empowered women (there's nothing like a little bit of skin to make men do what you want) and let them use... certain assets which men don't have to make a lucrative profession for themselves. In fact, I seem to recall that early Playboy models were all featured with biographies about how they were up-and-coming young women who were off studying medicine or something, and just showed themselves off on the side. It may have lapsed over time, but it at least abates the accusations of misogyny a bit.
 

loc978

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Sep 18, 2010
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Yeah... Playboy's the wrong target here. You want tasteless objectification and the setting of unrealistic physical standards for women (though not misogyny, really)... look no further than Cosmopolitan, US, and People.
 

Giest4life

The Saucepan Man
Feb 13, 2010
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Ok, let's say that Playboy does objectify women. So, what? Objectifying is the way humans understand things--even the son of god can't escape our mortal cruelty.
 

TheDoctor455

Friendly Neighborhood Time Lord
Apr 1, 2009
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Pirate Kitty said:
Women are beautiful. Some women choose to show their bodies off and get paid to feel sexy.

Good on them.

Nothing misogynistic ere.
Yeah, its not like these women have been pressed into service or something.
 

SimuLord

Whom Gods Annoy
Aug 20, 2008
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You know why Playboy would fall? Not because of the whole women vs. meat thing, but because their blatant airbrushing and photographing women who were patients at the Guatemalan Medical College School of Plastic Surgery Breast Implant Clinic...well, that's just Erection Rejection right there, especially in the age of Internet porn. And don't give me the claptrap about "reading it for the articles". You want to do that, read Esquire.

To paraphrase Roger Ebert: Playboy is not good art, It is not good writing, and it is not good porn.
 

DudeistBelieve

TellEmSteveDave.com
Sep 9, 2010
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eh, always been more a hustler guy when it came to the magazines (I.E. when I was young, lacked a computer, and found stacks of old porn mags of my fathers).

Like someone else said, it's not the objectification of women doing this to the industry, it's just the abundance of free porn. And it's just getting more abundant as time goes on especially with the creation of "Tube" sites.
 

SimuLord

Whom Gods Annoy
Aug 20, 2008
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SaneAmongInsane said:
eh, always been more a hustler guy when it came to the magazines (I.E. when I was young, lacked a computer, and found stacks of old porn mags of my fathers).

Like someone else said, it's not the objectification of women doing this to the industry, it's just the abundance of free porn. And it's just getting more abundant as time goes on especially with the creation of "Tube" sites.
Fun fact: A lot of those YT-inspired porn sites have been getting in copyright trouble for posting...get this...copyrighted porn that someone ripped off a DVD. How strangely ironic that porn would actually be late to an Internet trend!
 

ShadowsofHope

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Nov 1, 2009
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Zeeky_Santos said:
I'm honestly surprised that there isn't a playboy for women out there.
There is. Playgirl.

Pirate Kitty said:
Women are beautiful. Some women choose to show their bodies off and get paid to feel sexy.

Good on them.

Nothing misogynistic ere.
Also this. The body is the individuals to do with as they desire, accepting any consequences that go along with it.
 

theSovietConnection

Survivor, VDNKh Station
Jan 14, 2009
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I don't find anything about Playboy to be objectifying. In fact, I'd say the feminist/femiNazi movement are much worse in that area, because they don't think these women are capable of making the rational choice to go in to that line of work. And I seriously doubt Playboy's financial troubles are because of tastelessness, I'd say it's because who doesn't download porn from the internet anymore?
 

Unesh52

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May 27, 2010
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Macgyvercas said:
Playboy is by no means what I would call good for the image of women.
Is it bad because of the specific content, or is the nature of the medium?
Freezy_Breezy said:
It's the Daily Show.

There's no bigger joke.
...what's wrong with the Daily Show? It's a comedy show, yeah, so I'm not considering it as a credible source of critical analysis, rather I'm using it for it's aptitude for channeling public opinion (that is, the opinion of the mostly young and left). I figure if they make a joke out of it, they suspect a big enough part of their audience will sympathize with that perspective. It's not a rock solid assumption, but it's good enough to warrant my reaction.

...And it's funny! What're you talking about?

More generally, to everyone: I don't much like this argument to the effect of "no one's making them do it." That's not the problem. The issue here is whether or not the image presented by the magazine is healthy. Is a woman hurting the public perception of the gender as a whole by getting nude on camera, willing or not? Does a man necessarily objectify women in general if he gets off to the mags?
 

Lilani

Sometimes known as CaitieLou
May 27, 2009
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I think if the hundreds of years pornography has existed and the thousands of years male-dominated societies have existed hasn't completely objectified women, nothing ever will.

I mean really, whether or not something is an individual or a tool is really up to the individual viewer. Sure, some men just use women as their playthings and nothing more, but so many others are different from that. Not to mention all of the levels of objectification. As a woman I do find them to be disgusting and believe they are doing nothing to benefit themselves, but I understand that other people do like it. Playboy and other companies have the right to cater to that market. As long as everybody is of age and gives their consent, then there is nothing legally wrong with it.
 

The Salty Vulcan

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Jun 28, 2009
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Pirate Kitty said:
Women are beautiful. Some women choose to show their bodies off and get paid to feel sexy.

Good on them.

Nothing misogynistic ere.
Pretty much this.
Course I always leaned towards pin-ups myself. They just seem more fun.
 

Naheal

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Sep 6, 2009
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Pirate Kitty said:
Women are beautiful. Some women choose to show their bodies off and get paid to feel sexy.

Good on them.

Nothing misogynistic ere.
There's no better way to put it, really.