Pokemon - A "What If?" concerning HMs

[facade]

In the Pokemon games, HM serve a somewhat necessary evil. They naturally limit the player to certain areas during the progression of the game without imposing extremely artificial barriers (like a line of police officers that inhibit progress until a local gym leader is defeated or some other event, for example).

However, HM abilities are generally pretty awful. Who honestly wants to carry around a Pokemon that knows Cut?

So with the prologue out of the way:
What if the HM effects were tied specifically to types of Pokemon rather than the abilities themselves?

For example, if there is a tree in the way, any Grass-type Pokemon could naturally Cut them down. Similarly, Flying-type Pokemon would naturally be able to use Fly. These would not be abilities used in battle, more like the innate abilities introduced in Ruby/Sapphire.

In this scheme, game designers could still limit when you can use these type abilities by a gym badge or something (For example, cannot use Surf until you beat the Water Gym or take a Pokemon Aquatic Riding class.) that way you do not get situations where a person rides a Squirtle south out of Pallet Town and somehow defeating the gym at Cinnabar Island first.

There might be some absurd situations, such as riding the wide and majestic oceans on a Magikarp, but this is a small sacrifice (or hilarious benefit) to not having to drag around a Raticate with the necessary HMs.

So any comments on this idea? Also, it would make sense for each type of Pokemon to have a unique ability. Any thoughts on what the different types should be able to do outside of battle? For example, I envision Fire Pokemon enabling walking on lava.

 

[orangebandguy]

That'd be much better, beats having a HM slave you don't use in battle just dragging down the rest of your badass team of badassness.

 

[Curtmiester]

It'll also limit those times when your pokemon learns a new move but the only thing you want to delete is cut, but you can't!

 

[apelsz]

You should at the very least be able to delete HM moves if you are learning a new one.

 

[Anonymous Overlord]

interesting idea, but half of the HM's is earning them. like getting to the ship captain to learn cut in first versions, or finding the lady that has the fly HM. sure its not difficult but the simple act of finding the ability is part of being able to use it.

I also believe that having the HM act as an active ability is a balancing act.its annoying to keep a grass type in my party to cut the few trees that block my path at crucial turning points. And i hate nerfing my main heavy hitters buy adding a neigh useless combat ability but that difficulty is the point . No surf is not the most powerful water move, in stead of having a high level blastoise with hydro pump, skull bash, hyper beam, and water pulse you need to choose which ability you can live without for the sake of reaching distant islands with pokemon unavailable anywhere else. In short your idea would make things easier to the player and give greater potential for overpowered creatures.

 

[El Poncho]

I just carry a HM ***** about with me. It was bidoof last time.

 

[Dexiro]

HM stands for Hidden Move right?

So it should be just that, they should be hidden during battle. Maybe have corresponding TMs that let you use them during battle, but i can't imagine anyone would want them anyway.

 

[Fenreil]

This idea is composed of win. I loathed carrying around HM pokemon, because I refused to teach any of my good ones HMs. This is an excellent solution to the problem.

As for this:

interesting idea, but half of the HM's is earning them. like getting to the ship captain to learn cut in first versions, or finding the lady that has the fly HM. sure its not difficult but the simple act of finding the ability is part of being able to use it.

I'm pretty sure it's time for nintendo to get off their asses and figure out new ways to make the game longer

 

[Deleted]

In the Pokemon games, HM serve a somewhat necessary evil. They naturally limit the player to certain areas during the progression of the game without imposing extremely artificial barriers (like a line of police officers that inhibit progress until a local gym leader is defeated or some other event, for example).

However, HM abilities are generally pretty awful. Who honestly wants to carry around a Pokemon that knows Cut?

So with the prologue out of the way:
What if the HM effects were tied specifically to types of Pokemon rather than the abilities themselves?

For example, if there is a tree in the way, any Grass-type Pokemon could naturally Cut them down. Similarly, Flying-type Pokemon would naturally be able to use Fly. These would not be abilities used in battle, more like the innate abilities introduced in Ruby/Sapphire.

In this scheme, game designers could still limit when you can use these type abilities by a gym badge or something (For example, cannot use Surf until you beat the Water Gym or take a Pokemon Aquatic Riding class.) that way you do not get situations where a person rides a Squirtle south out of Pallet Town and somehow defeating the gym at Cinnabar Island first.

There might be some absurd situations, such as riding the wide and majestic oceans on a Magikarp, but this is a small sacrifice (or hilarious benefit) to not having to drag around a Raticate with the necessary HMs.

So any comments on this idea? Also, it would make sense for each type of Pokemon to have a unique ability. Any thoughts on what the different types should be able to do outside of battle? For example, I envision Fire Pokemon enabling walking on lava.

I teach HMs to my main pokemon team like a MAN!

Fly, Surf, and Waterfall generally good moves anyways. Not for competitive fighting but it'l get you by in the game.

Not sure if HGSS has Flash but that was a stupid move. I got through Silver without using flash once. Rock Smash is okay I guess.

 

[Anonymous Overlord]

This idea is composed of win. I loathed carrying around HM pokemon, because I refused to teach any of my good ones HMs. This is an excellent solution to the problem.

As for this:

interesting idea, but half of the HM's is earning them. like getting to the ship captain to learn cut in first versions, or finding the lady that has the fly HM. sure its not difficult but the simple act of finding the ability is part of being able to use it.

I'm pretty sure it's time for nintendo to get off their asses and figure out new ways to make the game longer

they got us playing the same game oh i don't know 13 times. {red, blue, green, yellow, gold, silver, crystal, saphire, ruby, diamond, pearl, and soon heart & soul} If any one has to get off their collective ass's its us. The games have a formula thats both familiar and entertaining, not to mention tried and true. You can complain and make suggestions but at the end of the day odds are you have beat the elite 4 in at least 2 of the above mentioned titles.

 

[facade]

interesting idea, but half of the HM's is earning them. like getting to the ship captain to learn cut in first versions, or finding the lady that has the fly HM. sure its not difficult but the simple act of finding the ability is part of being able to use it.

And I agree entirely, with this scheme, the abilities are just tied to the type. How and when these are actually enabled can be whatever makes the game most fun: gym badges, beating special trainers, mini games, side quests, etc.

In short your idea would make things easier to the player and give greater potential for overpowered creatures.

I don't think it necessarily makes it easier for the player overall. Yes, you are free to choose whatever moves you want for a particular pokemon, but tying the effects of HMs to types puts extra burden on choosing a well rounded team to be able to cross any terrain. So rather than having five overpowered creatures and one to actually get me places, each pokemon on the team has a role in traversing the world map.

 

[Fenreil]

I don't think it necessarily makes it easier for the player overall. Yes, you are free to choose whatever moves you want for a particular pokemon, but tying the effects of HMs to types puts extra burden on choosing a well rounded team to be able to cross any terrain. So rather than having five overpowered creatures and one to actually get me places, each pokemon on the team has a role in traversing the world map.

This. Excellent way of wording it, too.

 

[Altorin]

that's what Psyduck is for.

 

[2xDouble]

You mean like the Pokemon in the Ranger series?

That would be interesting. Ghosts could phase you through certain walls; Fire types walk on lava; Dark types could have the Flash equivalent (get it, seeing in the Dark. ha...); Ice types could make blocks or slides or something.

It might make the game unnecessarily complex though... as if it's not complex enough having 493 (503 if you count altered forms) playable characters (if you count Pokemon like Luvdisc and Bidoof as "playable").

 

[pantsoffdanceoff]

Or they just give you an item like a pair of scissors or a fucking surfboard and then you don't have to deal with it at all.

 

[facade]

It might make the game unnecessarily complex though... as if it's not complex enough having 493 (503 if you count altered forms) playable characters (if you count Pokemon like Luvdisc and Bidoof as "playable").

They don't all have to be powers necessary to gain access to areas. For example, Psychics could have Teleport, Ground types use Dig, Poison types could have an ability equivalent to Repel. All could be useful abilities, but at most, half might actually be necessary to beat the game.

Of course, one could also imagine a bonus dungeon where 8 or 10 particular abilities are required for passage. Then conquering that dungeon would require not only having individually strong pokemon to conquer it, but balancing a team with all the necessary types. I don't think this would be particularly difficult, though, as Pokemon already encourages having a diverse team.

In general, this scheme would definitely put a premium on powerful dual type creatures.

 

[2xDouble]

True also. But wouldn't that require a shift towards more of a Legend of Zelda style dungeon-crawler game as opposed to the (albeit stale) RPG/monster-catching format? This type of thing is what Mystery Dungeon should have been.
Side note: that would be awesome if it could be made to work properly.

 

[Plurralbles]

you just said what they're useful for, but then you continue on in such a way that is completely saying that their use is irrelevant.

Fucking awesome logic there, guy.

I say it's a good idea, but how are you going to limit a player from catching a pokemon when that pokemon must be caughgt in the area you are?

You could then go through teh whole game and never beat one gym leader and arrive at the gates of the E4 and be turned away by teh guard.

Pokemon is a video game. There are gameplay reasons to have it like it is.

 

[Amnestic]

Hmm. Intriguing. Would pokémon have access to multiple HM style moves then? For example, a gyrados could feasibly know Strength, Surf, Waterfall and Rock Smash totalling a four HM pokémon.

 

[TimeLord]

that's what Psyduck is for.

I'm pretty sure Psyduck can't learn fly..........

...or can it.

To Pokemon Yellow!