Poll: Am I disgusting for not paying for the first date?

[Holy_Handgrenade]

This is a subject I've debated with my friends at length, when a friend stated that a guy should pay for a woman on dates. After I told him I didn't do that with my current girlfriend and I didn't do that for my first date which he found even more shocking, he accused me of not being a gentleman. My reasoning behind not paying for a girl is a case of sexism. while I'd never bang home to anyone that they shouldn't pay for a date, I chose not to due to the fact that a relationship should be built on equality and that old tradition is kind of starting it on the wrong foot. The reason I thought about this again is because I was watching a UK show called 'First Dates' in which a man insists he will pay for the woman as if he doesn't it's disgusting. Now Escapists, what is your view?

EDIT: For people wondering about why I don't just pay to improve my chances of a relationship; I'm not that desperate for a relationship that I'm going to pay her as such to convince her. Another reason I just say "Do you want to go dutch?" as if this is an actual date and I'm looking for a relationship anyone who refuses that yes I will pay for but is not the sort of person who I want to see again so it levels out as a handy test now I think about it.

I understand the reasoning that if you extended the invitation that you should pay but I think that argument is a bit of a cop out as you never see that in the reverse, I've been asked out by women before and they never offer to pay not that they should and most people would see it very strange if I expected them to. Also with that reasoning it should hold in a platonic setting but friends do not expect their friends to pay for them if they are invited somewhere.

Also when I say split the bill I mean going dutch, I should have made that more clear originally.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

I always ask "Do you want me to pay for this?". That way I can if that's what she wants or she can chose to treat me instead.

Ultimately its not whats important. What is important is that SOMEONE pays for it if the night was worth it for both people involved and that usually isn't decided at the table.

 

[krazykidd]

Equality of the sexes and all that nice stuff. So no, i personally don't believe the guy ( or girl) should pay for anyone than themselves. And any woman that doesn't agree is not one i would be interested to date..

However, i would buy a or sevral drinks, for a girl i would sleep with, but if i'm taking a girl out on a date, we are doingthings right.

 

[Queen Michael]

I always offer to pay for the first date, but it's not because of gender; it's because I'm just awesome.

 

[dyre]

Well, you should at least offer to pay. Sure, it's a stupid tradition but it's also not a big deal, totally irrelevant to actual gender equality issues. Reminds me of the people who want to ban Christmas trees on government property.

Actually, I think spending actual time thinking about this nonissue is petty and stupid, unless you have a legitimate concern (such as being too poor to afford dinner).

 

[StriderShinryu]

If it's obvious you're going on a date, and if you're the one who asked for the date, then yes you absolutely should pay. Disgusting is a harsh word for the situation, but it's definitely ungentlemanly.

 

[tippy2k2]

If it's obvious you're going on a date, and if you're the one who asked for the date, then yes you absolutely should pay. Disgusting is a harsh word for the situation, but it's definitely ungentlemanly.

100% agreement here.

Disgusting is no where near what you would be for not paying for the first date as the guy. At the very very worst, I would call it bad form but even that's a bit strong but I can't think of anything weaker that would still say "The guy should pay for date one".

So I don't think it's wrong for you to not pay on the first date but unless she absolutely insisted that she pay her piece, I would pay for the first date.

 

[Holy_Handgrenade]

If it's obvious you're going on a date, and if you're the one who asked for the date, then yes you absolutely should pay. Disgusting is a harsh word for the situation, but it's definitely ungentlemanly.

I don't understand how it is irrelevant? Like a previous poster said if I was doing it properly I want a girl who isn't bought at a price. In terms of gender issues though it is still systemic of the larger issue that women are still seen as not independent and not able to take care of themselves or pay for themselves.
PS: I'd argue Christmas isn't really a religious holiday much any more so I'd have no qualm.

If it's obvious you're going on a date, and if you're the one who asked for the date, then yes you absolutely should pay. Disgusting is a harsh word for the situation, but it's definitely ungentlemanly.

I understand the reasoning that if you extended the invitation that you should pay but you never see that in the reverse, I've been asked out by girls before and they never offer to pay not that they should and most people would see it very strange if I expected them to.

 

[Genocidicles]

Nah there's no problem. I've done the same before.

My reasoning is not that I think it's sexist, it's that I'm not fucking made of money.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Reminds me of something I read

Spoiler

Seriously though, I don't think I've ever not paid on a first date. It's not that I insist on paying, it's just that it's really awkward when the check comes and no one reaches for it, and then it's even more awkward to ask the other person "You got this or...?" So it's not like I feel some sort of obligation I just don't like awkward situations. It's actually the same reason I always answered the professors' questions when I was in college, because if I didn't there was a long awkward silence that annoyed me since no one else wanted to speak.

 

[StriderShinryu]

If it's obvious you're going on a date, and if you're the one who asked for the date, then yes you absolutely should pay. Disgusting is a harsh word for the situation, but it's definitely ungentlemanly.

I understand the reasoning that if you extended the invitation that you should pay but you never see that in the reverse, I've been asked out by girls before and they never offer to pay not that they should and most people would see it very strange if I expected them to.

I agree that you don't generally see the same expectation in the reverse. In most cases where the lady asks there seems to be an expectation, at least in my experience, that the cost will be shared in some way.

 

[Holy_Handgrenade]

Reminds me of something I read

Spoiler

Seriously though, I don't think I've ever not paid on a first date. It's not that I insist on paying, it's just that it's really awkward when the check comes and no one reaches for it, and then it's even more awkward to ask the other person "You got this or...?" So it's not like I feel some sort of obligation I just don't like awkward situations. It's actually the same reason I always answered the professors' questions when I was in college, because if I didn't there was a long awkward silence that annoyed me since no one else wanted to speak.

That used be my past attitude and oh god the amount of awkward assemblies I gave an answer in and people thought I was weird just because I couldn't stand the silence was innumerable. I think the only reason I truly get bothered by it is that her insisting that I must pay for her is a deal breaker. I once had a friend with a similar view as me and this girl joked at first about him having to pay the bill which he disagreed with also joking but soon they were having a serious discussion about it. Long story short the girl flat out refused and walked out on the spot.

 

[MysticSlayer]

Saying a person is "ungentlemanly" for not doing it or "sexist" for doing it is really extreme in both cases.

As for myself, I'll likely pay unless she wants to pay for herself or unless she offers to pay. I really don't see the point in keeping running tabs on each other and establishing a "we have to do this equally" rule. Sure, if all she does is take money from me, then I might be a little weary of why she's in the relationship. Otherwise, it was a nice time to spend together, and I'd be more than happy to show some affection by paying for her meal.

I think of it sort of like a gift. I give to her because I want to, not because I want her to pay me back so we're "even". Again, some people exploit this behavior, but that's something to deal with if it turns out they are like that.

Of course, my position may change slightly once I start going on dates regularly...What? Money is hard to come by right now and most of what I have goes to college.

 

[Padwolf]

No, it's not bad of you at all to not pay for the first date. It's not being ungentlemanly and it certainly isn't sexist. When a guy offers me that he'll pay I always say either "If you buy then, then I'll buy us ___" or "No, let me pay or my half". What is more important is that the date went well and that it was fun. For my first date my boyfriend paid for our cinema tickets, I paid for the popcorn and then I paid for our burger king dinner. People aren't made of money, afterall.

 

[madwarper]

"Should"? No. Someone shouldn't have to pay for the date, simply because their gender.

I'd say it's more a factor of who asked who out on the date, and who picked the location of the date.
Because if it comes down to "Do you want to take me out for a really expensive meal?", the response would be "How about you go out for that really expensive meal, I'll be somewhere else eating a hotdog and we meet up afterwards?"

 

[StriderShinryu]

If you're reasoning is sexism. Then I think you should think of a better reason. That's just a copout.

That's sort of my thought at this point as well. Maybe I'm just old or something (and I don't doubt I'm older than many of the other users here), but I find one of the bigger problems to be that this is being turned into some sort of moral/philosophical/ethical/etc. debate. To me, it's not about being sexist or genderist, it's just about being a gentleman.

 

[SmallHatLogan]

It really depends on the woman I think. While I'm all for bucking the trend in regards to typical gender roles I wouldn't hesitate to pay just to avoid any awkwardness (like if neither of us seemed to be making a move to pay) but if she stopped me we could work something else out. I wouldn't want her to pay for the whole thing. Not because I'm a guy, even if I was just out with a friend I wouldn't feel right having them pay for me either.

 

[Ryotknife]

I would offer to pay for the first date for no other reason than anti-drama insurance. First dates already come with enough emotional baggage as it is. No reason to make it more difficult than it has to be.

 

[geK0]

I typically just go out for coffee when I'm just getting to know somebody. I'll typically ask what they want while ordering my own coffee; sometimes they'll simply tell me what they want, sometimes they'll tell me that they're okay buying their own coffee, to which I'll reply "Nah I got it" and they'll either let me pay or insist on paying for their own. In the end, it's just a coffee so it's not like it's putting too big of a dent in either of our bank accounts. I do the same for friends and family, it's not really about some masculine obligation to me it's just a friendly gesture.

Going out to a (non fast food) restaurant on a first date just seems like overkill to me when really the goal is just to chat and get to know somebody. Nobody needs a steak, a salad or a lobster tail to get to know you : \
I wouldn't take somebody to a nice restaurant until at least a month into the relationship.

Maybe I'm just cheap.