Poll: An RPG equipment concept

[Chronologist]

Consider this concept included in a single-player action RPG:


The player does not loot enemy corpses after battle. All of their worn and wielded equipment is purchased from vendors, or granted as the reward for a completed quest or sidequest. No consumables exist or are found as loot, instead the player must rely entirely on their equipment loadout and selection of spells/skills/techniques for healing, removing debuffs, etc. In addition, all worn equipment grants no combat benefit with its base abilities, instead the player can enchant/enhance the armor when at home, adding things like elemental resistance, increased movement speed, etc. Weapons function the same, except weapon categories (like swords, two-handed axes, rifles, pistols, bows, etc) have defined qualities, generally in terms of range, speed, and damage - however, all weapons in the same category have the same base stats (thus making a simple iron sword as deadly as Excalubur, without any enhancements).


This idea would completely remove looting and consumable item management from the game, instead focusing on the tactical nature of combat, and encouraging research and preparation in order to best combat your enemies - exploiting their weaknesses while protecting yourself against their more deadly attacks.

What do you think? Please comment and give reasoning for your opinion.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

A lot of the fun in RPG's is the loot system.

Nothing more exciting than opening a chest, eagerly sifting through its contents for the good stuff, or defeating a difficult enemy and be rewarded with their equipment.

What's the point in crawling through a dungeon if there's nothing to loot?

 

[oplinger]

I like the idea, but..I don't see it being a very good system for an open world RPG. It seems like it discourages exploring, because there's not going to be anything really useful out there. And no reward for killing anything difficult other than...bragging rights? Woo.

I think for a more linear approach to RPGs it could work just fine though.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Sounds like a MMO pre-alpha build, I played some of those... not really something one enjoys.
I mean it's just unnecessarily limited, then you take out the draw to explore and find treasure, or to fight big bad monsters, vendors alone holding everything of value spoil everything you will obtain and makes the surrounding world seem very empty and unimportant.

Also everything having same stats... your idea seems more like brawler with switchable weapons then anything RPG related.

 

[Zaik]

It's been done before.

I'm not opposed to the idea, however it usually just swaps rare and/or boss drop loot for rare and/or boss drop crafting items to improve/enchant your armor.

Or in other words, it's entirely superficial and barely, if at all, affects the actual mechanics.

 

[Vegosiux]

A lot of the fun in RPG's is the loot system.

Nothing more exciting than opening a chest, eagerly sifting through its contents for the good stuff, or defeating a difficult enemy and be rewarded with their equipment.

What's the point in crawling through a dungeon if there's nothing to loot?

The only thing better equipment is good for is being able to hack away more efficiently in the future. Gear is a tool, not a trophy. If you want a trophy, slash the enemy's head off and display it in your room, I say.

And I'd totally love it if enemies didn't drop usable gear. As in, you could take their stuff, but then you'd have to break it down and reforge it. Really, if I beat that burly giant over there, I'm pretty sure my slender elf lady will have trouble making his breastplate fit.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

A lot of the fun in RPG's is the loot system.

Nothing more exciting than opening a chest, eagerly sifting through its contents for the good stuff, or defeating a difficult enemy and be rewarded with their equipment.

What's the point in crawling through a dungeon if there's nothing to loot?

The only thing better equipment is good for is being able to hack away more efficiently in the future. Gear is a tool, not a trophy. If you want a trophy, slash the enemy's head off and display it in your room, I say.

You can think that all you want, still doesn't change the fact that a mainstay of games like Diablo and Borderlands is the drive to find better loot.

Especially rare loot.

I like rare loot.

[HEADING=1]The loots be mine![/HEADING]

 

[Chronologist]

The idea is not to remove all forms of equipment, or to remove quest rewards. Wealth would still be gained by adventuring and killing monsters, as would experience towards leveling up. Rewards would instead be limited to gaining new weapons and armor (allowing for a broad range of character customization) and gaining unique benefits - much like the Perks from the Fallout series, or Blessings from Skyrim.

I find the tedium of looking through every lootable object, inspecting every body, or clicking on fallen items to pick them up... well, tedious. It's what turns me off of most MMOs, and several RPGs. I'd rather focus on the gameplay, story, and visuals of the quest I'm partaking than worry if I have enough health potions, or if I should use the new weapon I just picked up and toss out my old one. I feel it detracts from my overall immersion, which makes the game less fun.

I also don't like the idea of being forced to toss out your old equipment in favor of new gear you just picked off of a dead body. Sure, you're not exactly forced, but over time your character will definitely fall behind power-wise if they want to stick with their old gear. I play a lightly-armored archer in Skyrim sometimes, and she prefers to wear Fur armor (it's cold outside, after all). This means that her armor rating is always far behind what it should be, leading to her horrific death on more than one occasion.

Honestly, I'm on the fence with consumable items, but they don't fit the setting, and a streamlined inventory system is kind of what I'm after anyway.

Perhaps the concept wasn't explained well enough in my first post. Thanks for posting.

 

[Chronologist]

A lot of the fun in RPG's is the loot system.

Nothing more exciting than opening a chest, eagerly sifting through its contents for the good stuff, or defeating a difficult enemy and be rewarded with their equipment.

What's the point in crawling through a dungeon if there's nothing to loot?

The only thing better equipment is good for is being able to hack away more efficiently in the future. Gear is a tool, not a trophy. If you want a trophy, slash the enemy's head off and display it in your room, I say.

And I'd totally love it if enemies didn't drop usable gear. As in, you could take their stuff, but then you'd have to break it down and reforge it. Really, if I beat that burly giant over there, I'm pretty sure my slender elf lady will have trouble making his breastplate fit.

I agree. That's actually part of the concept, slaying enemies grants you a wealth-like resource which can be used to create enhancements to weapons. These enhancements, in fact, have a base-line rating that can be improved partially with resources, but can also be augmented with points invested from leveling up.

Daystar Clarion, I absolutely understand the thrill of rare loot. It's awesome to find a piece of mythical equipment and then wield it in battle, should you choose. However, when you introduce "levels" to equipment (like in Borderlands or MMOs), you end up with a chest full of obsolete mythical artifacts. What's more awesome, killing a boss enemy and getting a unique shotgun that'll be replaced with a better, brand-name weapon in 4 levels, or fighting an undead Kind Arthur, taking the tainted Excalubur for yourself, a weapon that not only will remain viable for your entire career, but also has a scaling bonus to damage against Water-type creatures? I'd take Excalibur any time; even if it does the same base damage and can be enhanced the same ways as a normal sword, the flavor and long-lasting staying power of the weapon makes it much more fun.

 

[GloatingSwine]

In addition, all worn equipment grants no combat benefit with its base abilities, instead the player can enchant/enhance the armor when at home, adding things like elemental resistance, increased movement speed, etc. Weapons function the same, except weapon categories (like swords, two-handed axes, rifles, pistols, bows, etc) have defined qualities, generally in terms of range, speed, and damage - however, all weapons in the same category have the same base stats (thus making a simple iron sword as deadly as Excalubur, without any enhancements).

Thats how Final Fantasy X's equipment works.

The downside to it is that your stats system basically needs to be super simple, because otherwise it's hard for players to judge which stats/bonuses are worth having. This was a common complaint about Dungeon Siege 3, wherein armour and weapons had all manner of stats and bonuses but none of them were clear in function so there was no way to know whether you wanted the longsword with +25 Doom or the one with +10 Burning.

That means that people just don't engage with that system in your game, making their experience of it less complete and compelling.

 

[oplinger]

The idea is not to remove all forms of equipment, or to remove quest rewards. Wealth would still be gained by adventuring and killing monsters, as would experience towards leveling up. Rewards would instead be limited to gaining new weapons and armor (allowing for a broad range of character customization) and gaining unique benefits - much like the Perks from the Fallout series, or Blessings from Skyrim.

I find the tedium of looking through every lootable object, inspecting every body, or clicking on fallen items to pick them up... well, tedious. It's what turns me off of most MMOs, and several RPGs. I'd rather focus on the gameplay, story, and visuals of the quest I'm partaking than worry if I have enough health potions, or if I should use the new weapon I just picked up and toss out my old one. I feel it detracts from my overall immersion, which makes the game less fun.

I also don't like the idea of being forced to toss out your old equipment in favor of new gear you just picked off of a dead body. Sure, you're not exactly forced, but over time your character will definitely fall behind power-wise if they want to stick with their old gear. I play a lightly-armored archer in Skyrim sometimes, and she prefers to wear Fur armor (it's cold outside, after all). This means that her armor rating is always far behind what it should be, leading to her horrific death on more than one occasion.

Honestly, I'm on the fence with consumable items, but they don't fit the setting, and a streamlined inventory system is kind of what I'm after anyway.

Perhaps the concept wasn't explained well enough in my first post. Thanks for posting.

You don't need to search through everything. It's only tedius because you make it that way. Most of the time it's pretty obvious when something useful is in something.

You still have not addressed a way to make exploring fun. Fallout 3, with its perks, let you use just about any weapon, as they all had their uses. The perks made you better at using your older equipment, or gave you certain benefits. However, you still had a reason to explore, every area had some interesting item to find in it, usually with a story around it. It made exploring fun and interesting, rather than "oh look at this building, let's just hack everything to dog food and move on."

More over, getting better equipment is all part of...everything. Barbarians used to take whatever armor/weapons they wanted off their enemies because it was better quality. Many armies did the same thing as it was expensive to outfit yourself in good armor. And worrying about if you have the necessary items in order to not die a horrifying death at the hands of anything ever seems pretty realistic to me.

I think your system is sound if the game has no exploration element, like I stated. It wouldn't work as it stands now in an open world environment. I think it could be modified however, to add back in looting off of corpses, even if just vendor fodder. That way you can afford to finely crafted vendor items. Also make high quality weapons and armor exceptionally rare (1% chance of drop off the strongest enemies, or 1% chance a vendor will carry it) and top that off with your own enchantments of however limited number or power. Add crafting into that game and you have yourself a way to be a master swordsmith that has created a finely honed and expertly crafted sword, with proper enhancements, making it fit to be legendary and passed down through your family for generations.

Otherwise, forget the enchantments and such, and just make the game completely player skill based, that way looting is not needed and you can still add in fun of exploration by making challenges in your dungeons or exceptionally hard creatures that level you up quicker. That way you can doodle around all you want without a care in the world, be super OP, and not have to worry about any loot what so ever.

There's a lot to think about you haven't laid out in your explanations is all I'm really trying to get at D:

 

[ManInRed]

Loot and consumables items aren't needed as rewards, and set equipment with enchantments will work as long as there it limits to how much you can have at a time or when these could be changed.

The one issue with no consumables is how to handle recovery. You lose something with tactics if you cannot lose a battle by attrition, but there are adjustments you can make to compensate for this. The simplest one is to just have a counter on healing abilities that last for a battle or particular time period. It would interesting to see what solutions you go for in this case.

Now would Gear, Abilities, and Enchantments be gain over time in the game, show progression in growth? If so, you obviously need to avoid having these be gain with the same grinding for loot mechanics you are trying to avoid. Otherwise, I am not sure the lack of loot would have any effect to how the game is played.

 

[Chronologist]

Those are some interesting points. I'll try and address as many as I can.

GloatingSwine, you can have complexity without requiring loot in a game. Consider the difference between, say, a Flaming Sword and a Staggering Sword. The Flaming weapon will add additional fire damage onto every hit, which will probably hurt most things, but won't be effective against fire-type enemies. On the other hand, it'll probably do more damage to water-type enemies, so it's more or less powerful based on what kind of enemies you expect to face, but no matter what, it's still USEFUL. A Staggering weapon, on the other hand, might have a higher chance of interrupting an enemy's attack when you hit them with it. You won't do more damage, but you might negate an incoming blow and set yourself up for a nice counter move. Again, the stagger effect might not always work on every enemy, so it's dependent on what you'll be facing, but it's always USEFUL. Remember, this is only your basic sword-fighting you're taking into account here, all special abilities also come into play. Maybe Stagger's useful when combined with a special attack that leaves you vulnerable for a second. Maybe Flaming is useful if you have an ability that makes enemies more vulnerable to fire.

Oplinger, not everyone explores just for the loot. Some people want to see what's at the top of that hill, at the bottom of that lake, on the other side of that mountain. I find that encountering an interesting sidequest with a cool premise and dungeon to be more than worth my time, even if I don't rack up the gold inside. In addition, players are not expected to be barbarians - and no warrior tosses aside a familiar blade to pick up another one, even if it looks sharper or better made - it wouldn't feel right, I expect. Weapons are very specifically balanced for the individual user, they're not interchangeable, and neither is armor. Finally, I don't see standard enemies dropping loot that's anywhere near to as good as what you possess - perhaps elite or boss monsters, but then again such rewards can be considered to be quest rewards anyway, since you won't be able to really use the weapon properly until you've returned home and tinkered with the balance/enhancements.

ManInRed, currently the idea is to have only two weapons available on-hand when out and about and one set of clothing, with a finite number of potential enhancements on any one item. So, you could swap your flaming weapon out for one more appropriate to what you're facing, and in fact the natural speed/damage/range/impact of weapon categories will influence how these weapons are used in combat, mainly how they interact with your active abilities. Regardless, a lack of loot would significantly improve the speed and flow of gameplay by removing the need to stop every 5 feet to check the nearest container or dead body. Simply giving the player the resources they need to purchase new equipment, services, hirelings etc. is the best way to keep the player focused on the task at hand. At least, I think so.

 

[oplinger]

Oplinger, not everyone explores just for the loot. Some people want to see what's at the top of that hill, at the bottom of that lake, on the other side of that mountain. I find that encountering an interesting sidequest with a cool premise and dungeon to be more than worth my time, even if I don't rack up the gold inside. In addition, players are not expected to be barbarians - and no warrior tosses aside a familiar blade to pick up another one, even if it looks sharper or better made - it wouldn't feel right, I expect. Weapons are very specifically balanced for the individual user, they're not interchangeable, and neither is armor. Finally, I don't see standard enemies dropping loot that's anywhere near to as good as what you possess - perhaps elite or boss monsters, but then again such rewards can be considered to be quest rewards anyway, since you won't be able to really use the weapon properly until you've returned home and tinkered with the balance/enhancements.

The people who explore just for the sake of exploring are a minority. People get bored when exploring has no real reward because games are usually not that varied. Seen one cave, seen them all type deal. Fallout rewarded you with story, a new item, and/or a rare enemy with special loot (be it, more precious ammo for a powerful weapon, or just more of something you might like) It wasn't loot rewards, it gave you a reason to want/need to explore.

It's less about loot, and more about giving people a reason to keep going. quests are fine, WoW obviously proves that, but out of my 7 and a half years playing WoW, I can count the people who read quest text on one hand.

A warrior knows when a blade is superior to his own. Better iron/steel, better craftsmanship, etc. They did it all the time unless their equipment was indeed superior. Blades cannot be "balanced for the individual user" there is a science behind it. The center of balance should be slightly under the hilt, where the hand is placed. Not wherever the fuck you like it. Striking power comes from the flicking of the wrist, or the twirling of the blade, not the hacking strength of your arm. You'd wear out very quickly that way. A perfectly balanced, straight blade, would always be taken from your enemies corpse if your blade was dull and bent, or worse, unbalanced due to poor craftsmanship or damage. It would be detrimental to your survival to be attached to a weapon like that, unless you were well versed in how to upkeep the blade and keep the balancing optimal.

Armor is another thing that you are wrong about. I'll start with plate, because it seems where most people get stuck. Plate armor is not form fitted to the user for the most part, only the rich could afford that. It was mass produced to be generally human shaped, and fitted to soldiers with adjustable straps. Anything less than plate is easier to fit to you with belts, as many things under plate armor are not rigid bodies.

And no, standard enemies should not drop things multitudes better than your things, that's why I said vendor fodder. The items are purposefully useless so you can acquire more money.

I think not being able to loot corpses would take away from immersion. You can always choose to not care, but if for some reason my weapon breaks I would like to have the option to use something. Unless I have a sword, a backup sword, a bow, a backup bow, etc.

As for quest rewards, that's fine. A little weird if you kill a boss, and get his weapon from the guy that gave you the quest, but otherwise it's the same in the end.

---

My main issue with this system is you have set no real limitations, but removed loot entirely. Less adventuring, more mercenary work. A mercenary who can keep a dull wooden short sword magically empowered to be as good as Excalibur, or mythical katanas of japanese legend. Or armor made of iron, that is stronger than steel, increases your speed by 20,000, allows you to jump 30 meters into the air or possibly fly. It just comes across as "I do not want to loot anymore. Just give me things and let me not change anything ever."

The drive to improve is not explored, I know it's a very rough outline, but without any real need for improvement, the game would be very short lived. You've swapped looting with shopping. Exploring with quest grinding, and adventuring with mercenary work (which may overlap, but there is a difference)

How do you learn enchantments? Buy the recipe? Find it from quests? Why does that make it any better than a looting system?

How do you craft things with no loot? Buy the materials? What sort of crazy economy is this? DO you find the components while adventuring? Wouldn't that sort of be like looting?

I'm assuming weapons and armor don't degrade, correct? So am I to assume that with enough cash, through exploitation or whatever means, I would be able to become a god? Or was degradation in your system? So you have to maintain, and eventually scrap weaponry? Or just repair it forever and ever and ever with the materials you buy until you get a better weapon from the next quest?

 

[Chronologist]

Oplinger, not everyone explores just for the loot. Some people want to see what's at the top of that hill, at the bottom of that lake, on the other side of that mountain. I find that encountering an interesting sidequest with a cool premise and dungeon to be more than worth my time, even if I don't rack up the gold inside. In addition, players are not expected to be barbarians - and no warrior tosses aside a familiar blade to pick up another one, even if it looks sharper or better made - it wouldn't feel right, I expect. Weapons are very specifically balanced for the individual user, they're not interchangeable, and neither is armor. Finally, I don't see standard enemies dropping loot that's anywhere near to as good as what you possess - perhaps elite or boss monsters, but then again such rewards can be considered to be quest rewards anyway, since you won't be able to really use the weapon properly until you've returned home and tinkered with the balance/enhancements.

(Removed for length, it's directly above anyway)

Answering each point individually?

If every location is individually crafted with its own inhabitants, lore, and rewards, then yes, I think they are interesting and exactly as you described interesting quests. I think dull environments without lie-ins to lore, designed solely for the loot, are boring. Maybe that's my own opinion.

The three pillars of story/gameplay/audiovisual should be what keeps a player going. If you're just in it to get bigger numbers to throw at your enemies so you can get even bigger numbers so you can repeat at infinitum, then it's not so much a game as it is a time-sink. There should be a goal besides "get stronger until you can beat anyone at anything".

Blades are balanced to the individual. Ask anyone who practices Kendo if every bamboo sword is balanced the exact same way. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Also, consider whether a single rapier is an effective weapon for both a 120-pound man AND a 300-pound man.

Sure, some forms of armor are fairly flexible, such as chainmail and indeed some forms of adjustable plate. However, in the same way that a coat two sizes too small is basically unwearable, such is the way with armor. You also have to take into account gender, a variety of body types, height, build... and the fact that your opponent may or may not be sporting wearable armor for a humanoid.

I ask you, what is the difference between a) Killing enemies, looting their bodies, selling it to a vendor, and then buying what you want, and b) Killing enemies, being rewarded automatically, and then buying what you want? About 3 seconds an enemy, that's what, plus endless reorganization of inventory, dropping heavy items, calculating weight by value... it's more hassle than you think.

I stated previously that characters would have two weapons at their disposal, plus whatever their special abilities let them do. Whether you want two swords, an axe and a hammer, or a bow and a spear, you have variety, while not carrying an armory on your back.

You don't get the item from the quest-giver. Who mentioned quest-givers? I'm saying you kill the boss, pry the weapon from his cold, dead hands, then you can use it immediately to attack the next wave of goons. Later on at home, you can fine-tune its enhancements, that's the idea.



After your ---, I had a lot of difficulty understanding whether you were trolling me or not. Your questions start getting pretty ridiculous, all things considered. I'll try and summarize briefly.

Your swords are never wooden, that's absurd. There's nothing wrong with having iron that's magically fortified to be stronger than steel - suspension of disbelief and all that. You still improve - you level up, you gain new abilities, you learn how to make better and more diverse enhancements for your gear, you gain more tactical options in combat, and you generally start encountering new, tougher enemies to keep pace with your newfound power. There's just more of a focus on your own personal strength than there is on your gear - an adventurer's equipment should never define how powerful they are. Enchantments are found be learning them with options when you level up, you can also find some in the world, or purchase them from vendors. There is a limit to how powerful they can be from just wealth. You can't buy yourself a sword of +1,000,000 fire damage by any means. You can't buy your way into becoming a god, that's just silly. None of these concerns aren't equally valid in a game WITH Looting, what's stopping my character from finding a swords of +infinity damage?


Overall, I'm kind of getting the sense that you don't understand what LOOTING means. Looting is spending time that could be spent exploring, fighting, or interacting, and instead picking items up off the floor or off of corpses. Starting a quest to find a mythical sword and at the end taking that sword is NOT looting in that sense - the sword is a REWARD for completing the quest, the same way that if you get a cat out of a tree for a little girl, the little girl;s gratitude isn't LOOT.

What I'm proposing is just removing the middle man and streamlining the fun part - removing the pick-up-and-sell, and cutting straight to the "Here's the awesome stuff you can buy" part.

 

[oplinger]

Answering each point individually?

If every location is individually crafted with its own inhabitants, lore, and rewards, then yes, I think they are interesting and exactly as you described interesting quests. I think dull environments without lie-ins to lore, designed solely for the loot, are boring. Maybe that's my own opinion.

Also unrealistic, that is an extremely large amount of work you want to be put into the game, just to make exploration with this loot system viable. Especially for the size we demand from RPGs these days. making every area special is just too much work for the cost/time the devs are allowed.

Blades are balanced to the individual. Ask anyone who practices Kendo if every bamboo sword is balanced the exact same way. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Also, consider whether a single rapier is an effective weapon for both a 120-pound man AND a 300-pound man.

They are not balanced to the individual.

--

Spoiler: A sword's point of balance is only one small piece of the complex puzzle that makes up a sword. Instead of asking ourselves if the sword feels good in terms of our personal wishes we should instead ask if the sword feels proper in accordance with its intended purpose (click for source)

http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_properties.php

--

A single rapier is effective for either man, as the rapier is a thrusting weapon used to puncture armors. It does not matter how big or small he is, as long as he knows how to wield it.

Sure, some forms of armor are fairly flexible, such as chainmail and indeed some forms of adjustable plate. However, in the same way that a coat two sizes too small is basically unwearable, such is the way with armor. You also have to take into account gender, a variety of body types, height, build... and the fact that your opponent may or may not be sporting wearable armor for a humanoid.

Sure, they never encountered those problems in the 15-18th century. Everyone had their own custom made set of armor when they joined the military.

Only they didnt. And while there will be exceptions, humanoids still fill out the same basic shapes, that's why they're humanoids. And if the opponent is not humanoid, and wearing armor, then you can't wear it, and it's not available to be worn. It may fit tight, it may fit loose, armor is better than no armor. And armor is for the most part, interchangeable. Not unique snowflakes.

I ask you, what is the difference between a) Killing enemies, looting their bodies, selling it to a vendor, and then buying what you want, and b) Killing enemies, being rewarded automatically, and then buying what you want? About 3 seconds an enemy, that's what, plus endless reorganization of inventory, dropping heavy items, calculating weight by value... it's more hassle than you think.

And if all the loot is just vendor fodder, as it most likely is, there is no need for any of that anyway. You're only there to kill the special one with the nice loot right? Why are you inspecting every corpse? Unless you need more cash, then you just grab it until you can't carry anymore.

Very little streamlining going on unless you're just OCD about it.

I stated previously that characters would have two weapons at their disposal, plus whatever their special abilities let them do. Whether you want two swords, an axe and a hammer, or a bow and a spear, you have variety, while not carrying an armory on your back.

I understand that part, but I would assume that if you have durability, that they will break. And you're not carrying 2 of the same weapon. So you lose the utility of say..your sword, and are forced to use your bow, or just punch things to death?

If no durability than it's not an issue.

You don't get the item from the quest-giver. Who mentioned quest-givers? I'm saying you kill the boss, pry the weapon from his cold, dead hands, then you can use it immediately to attack the next wave of goons. Later on at home, you can fine-tune its enhancements, that's the idea.



After your ---, I had a lot of difficulty understanding whether you were trolling me or not. Your questions start getting pretty ridiculous, all things considered. I'll try and summarize briefly.

Your swords are never wooden, that's absurd. There's nothing wrong with having iron that's magically fortified to be stronger than steel - suspension of disbelief and all that. You still improve - you level up, you gain new abilities, you learn how to make better and more diverse enhancements for your gear, you gain more tactical options in combat, and you generally start encountering new, tougher enemies to keep pace with your newfound power. There's just more of a focus on your own personal strength than there is on your gear - an adventurer's equipment should never define how powerful they are. Enchantments are found be learning them with options when you level up, you can also find some in the world, or purchase them from vendors. There is a limit to how powerful they can be from just wealth. You can't buy yourself a sword of +1,000,000 fire damage by any means. You can't buy your way into becoming a god, that's just silly. None of these concerns aren't equally valid in a game WITH Looting, what's stopping my character from finding a swords of +infinity damage?


Overall, I'm kind of getting the sense that you don't understand what LOOTING means. Looting is spending time that could be spent exploring, fighting, or interacting, and instead picking items up off the floor or off of corpses. Starting a quest to find a mythical sword and at the end taking that sword is NOT looting in that sense - the sword is a REWARD for completing the quest, the same way that if you get a cat out of a tree for a little girl, the little girl;s gratitude isn't LOOT.

What I'm proposing is just removing the middle man and streamlining the fun part - removing the pick-up-and-sell, and cutting straight to the "Here's the awesome stuff you can buy" part.

--

Spoiler: Looting in a gaming context, specifically in massively multiplayer online games (MMOGs) and MUDs, is the process by which a player character obtains items (or loot) such as in-game currency, spells, equipment, or weapons, often from the corpse of a creature or possibly the corpse of another player in a PVP situation (cf. looting). These looted items will be placed into the player's own inventory. Loot is considered a reward for killing a creature or other player.(click for source)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looting_(gaming)

--

SO basically you're not changing much of anything at all, you really are just..sick of looting every corpse? So....don't?

 

[ManInRed]

I find it funny that so many people are questioning the lack of complexity or limits offered in a system without loot, when such a system would guaranteed the need for both. Games with a loot reward system would need to continue to funnel in ever stronger weapons, leading to a narrow peak of equipment. But by having no peak of equipment, you can immediately limit the power of equipment and have everything focus on how one arsenal is different from another. There is no temptation for power creep.

Now obviously there the question of whether leveling will just become a different form of looting, or if various missions become similar to loot quests. If so, nothing inherently changes in gameplay, you just skip all that "picking up drops" nonsense. If not, then you can focus on other areas of gameplay to encourage players to keep on playing.

I think the reason why this idea is innovated is because it is the reverse of the method other games have employed to achieve a similar result. The older method being to remove leveling from the RPG and have everything become equipment based. This gives the designer more control in the expectations of the strength the player will reach at any given point of the game, which typically allows them more freedom in adding depth or difficulty to the gameplay. A lot of post game content follows the same advantage, since once everyone reaches max level its the same as working in a world without levels. While completely different, having no loot drops would offer the designer a similar increase in control, which in the hands of a good designer can lead to wonderful gameplay.

For people who think this is crazy and the the skinner box is a needed reward, I'm not sure what counter example I should start with. In a FPS the guns people carry are all the same no matter how long they play, but people keep playing those games for the competition. In an RPG shouldn't the goal of beating those omega mega bosses in combat be fun enough, without the need for any other reward? Never mind the obvious goal of giving players an interesting story to interact with. I could keep going, until I describe every good game without loot. If the only reason your still playing any game is some skinner box addiction, its no longer worth playing.

 

[Xdeser2]

I dont really know

Alot of the fun in an RPG IS the random or reward loot you get. ME2 was fine with many RPG elements cut out, but im not sure if i'd want to see other RPGs following that trend :/