Poll: Bayonetta 2: "Sexy" done right

[Shingeki no Gingerbeard]

http://www.gamnesia.com/news/female-developer-says-bayonetta-2-is-sexy-done-right#.VE2lGfnF-Yw

Discuss.

P.S.
I fully recognize that, due to the subject matter, this could be relocated to the Religion & Politics forum. If it is, so be it.

 

[Zhukov]

*shrug*

Sure, why not?

I'm not really sure where exactly the boundary between "decoration" and "owns her sexuality" is though. Heh, perhaps that reflects poorly on me. If nothing else, I think sexy works a lot better when it's actually incorporated into the character's personality rather than just sort of slathered on top because female characters must be pretty come hell or high water.

Personally I prefer my sexy a bit more grounded and I never saw the point of ogling pixels, so Bayonetta has never had any appeal to me. But then, maybe that's half the point.

Eh, I'm rambling.

 

[Inglorious891]

Just an FYI, your post is pretty bare of details OP. Might want add your own opinion versus just linking an article and saying,
"discuss".

Anyway.

Seems like Alicia was mirroring the points that Jim made in his recent video on Bayonetta: she's sexuality done right because she owns her sexuality and is doing it of her own free will, versus doing it to serve as pure titilization for male players.

Personally, I don't really give a shit either way. Despite how much I love Bayonetta (both the character and the game, and God damn do I love the game), I've never found Bayonetta very attractive, mainly due to the fact that she's waaaaaay too tall. I love the character because of how fun she is, which is refreshing after so many dark, grim, and boring characters gaming has.

I'll admit, with the small bit of shit I give I do agree with Alicia/Jim on their viewpoint of Bayonetta's sexuality, which is why I don't find any issues with it whereas I might find issues with the sexuality of other females characters.

 

[Weaver]

I agree though I think there's a more nuance here than is presented.
Bear with me because it's my birthday and I've been drinking.

Does Bayonetta own her sexuality? Totally. Is she a sexual character? Absolutely! I'm not trying to argue against those points. BUT, I think a lot of why this works is the total camp factor of the game. Camp is a lost art now-a-days. People watch things like the 1966 Batman movie and think it was just some hilariously horribly put together movie that was how it was by some series of luck and accidents. But that's totally not true, it's camp. Watch the opening of that movie. It clearly states it knows it's absurd, stupid and silly and was made for people who love that kind of thing.

Camp was a style. Platinum seems to understand it to some degree. Letting others do the heavy lifting: Camp is a social, cultural and aesthetic style and sensibility based on deliberate and self-acknowledged theatricality. Now there's debate about what "kitsch" and "camp" are (some say camp is a mode of performance, while kitsch applies to the entire work) - but let's just keep is simple and run with this definition.

And isn't that Bayonetta? Hell, isn't that how Hideki Kamiya basically operates now-a-days? Look at the more recent DmC entries. The series just got campier and campier. It's self embracing it's own theatrics to the point where Dante in DmC for literally had a spotlight shine on him, a rose go into his mouth and then did a full on Shakespeare soliloquy.

Bayonetta is the same. The game is basically a goddamn stage show. Cutscenes even have the sound of a film reel playing in the background. When you clear an area camera shutters go off. The games all have prominent Sinatra covers (which I know were actually covers Sinatra did). But it totally invokes that glitzy, ritzy, new york, burlesque, sexy Sinatra, Broadway stage feeling. And hell yea, Sinatra was sexy fun.

Now that I think about it, it's pretty much a burlesque show (if you haven't seen a burlesque show I actually really recommend it; they're amazing fun). Burlesque shows are an embracement of the fun side of sexuality and theatrics. The performers love the attention, they love theatrics, they put an incredible amount of work and care into their routines and they're all there doing what they're doing because they want to be and they want the audience to enjoy it too. And most importantly, sex is okay. Sex is fun.

I just can't help but think Bayonetta is similar to this.

I guess my point is that while yes Bayonetta totally owns her sexuality. The games are about more than her sexuality (though it's totally part of it!) and kind of about a more healthy burlesque sense of sex in general.

I'm going to bed now ^_^

 

[MrHide-Patten]

I've always found Bayonetta's sexiness up for debate, but then I wonder who finds her sexy? Shes a bit too exaggerated for me to go in the 'spank bank'. So I suppose that I can see that whilst I'm not turned on by the character in any way, I can tell its what they're aiming for, maybe it's that exaggeration (so far beyond normal as to disintegrate all real world comparisons) that women can see past.

I like the art design behind the rest of the game however, if spectacle fighters were more my thing I'd pick it up. However as Bayonetta one showed me, one too many bronze medal doesn't make for an enjoyable experience.

But then as somebody else said on Jim's video, whilst she does own her sexuality, she was MADE to own it. So in a way she doesn't truly own it in a way, she is a by product of culture, not a defector.

But then as I said in my first point, Bayonetta's sexiness is so campy that I don't find it sexy... or maybe it's just the glasses and the British accent, they turn me off for some weird reason.

 

[Guffe]

I didn't watch the interview.
All I came here to say was "I don't care!"
And that was even an option in the poll.
Listen, Bayonetta2 is a fun game with good action and it works just fine (at least the solo gaming, haven't tried the multiplayer arena yet) which is what I want from a game.
Sure you can discuss the female protagonist and all the deeper meanings of sex and stuff but I just want to play the game, m'kay!?

 

[Candidus]

I disagree. There is no wrong way to portray or appreciate sexualisation/sexuality. If and when the point is pure pandering and titillation, then 1: there's nothing wrong with that and 2: games that cater are doing it right as long as somebody finds them appealing.

If the point is female power fantasy with bundled sexuality-- and if you really believe that the sexuality isn't just titillation disguised in a frock-- then Bayonetta is probably doing it right.

Again, there is NO wrong way to portray or appreciate sexualisation. Fucken' period.

Senran Kagura is doing it right.
Dragon's Crown is doing it right.
Hyperdimension Neptunia is doing it right.
Bayonetta 1 and 2 are doing it right.

 

[LarsInCharge]

Bayonetta? Maybe.

Jeanne? Definitely. She's more reserved, but still oozes sexuality in a powerful way that she dictates.

 

[Someone Depressing]

I think Bayonetta is certainly sexy done right. She's so ridiculously over the top and fitting for her character that it just ends up funny for me. Not necessarily titillating, but just pure funny.

While I think that we can certainly do better by having an awesome protagonist be... well, awesome, and not just have them do spine-breaking ass shoves that rival Liefeld's own.

I really just think that she was primarily intended to be humorous, though. I mean...

Spoiler: Can you name a woman who even slightly comes close to these proportions?

That's, like, not even stylised. That's like if John Kricfalusi drew a sexy Lovecraft monster. That's the opposite of sexy.

 

[StriderShinryu]

I'm going to say no simply because sexuality in Bayonetta comes across as more of a joke than anything actually sexy. That approach certainly works for Bayonetta, both the character and her game, but it never feels genuine. As Weaver said above, it's silly camp and that's about it.

It's sort of like asking if a chocolate filled brownie fudge cake with inch thick chocolate icing and a pile of chocolate chips is doing chocolate right. I mean, sure it's chocolate. In fact, it's more chocolate than I'd wager most people could handle. But is going that far over the top really the best way to emphasize the quality and taste of the chocolate? Not really.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I don't care, good god, I don't. Take a good 2-second look at the character and you'll quickly realize it's all a big joke.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

http://www.gamnesia.com/news/female-developer-says-bayonetta-2-is-sexy-done-right#.VE2lGfnF-Yw

Discuss.

Well, I can't discuss Bayonetta 2, not owning a Wii U, but I can talk about Bayonetta 1 and the character in general.

And I absolutely agree. Bayonetta is an excellent example of a good female character in games. Yes, she is sexual, but she clearly owns and chooses her sexuality. While she does pander a bit to the male gaze, she does so in character with full awareness of her actions.

Bayonetta dresses like she wants and acts like she wants. She is a great example of Third Wave feminism in gaming. Third Wave Feminism is all about Sex-Positivity, and no one in games is more Sex Positive than Bayonetta!

(Anita Sarkesian is a Second Wave feminist, not a Third Wave feminist. Get your Feminism Waves right people!)

 

[Maximum Bert]

Im not sure it can be done right or wrong to be honest it all depends on who is looking at it and from what perspective. But if we are talking sexy as in an absolutely amazing game then yes its sexiness done the rightest of ways.

 

[Something Amyss]

I don't think Bayonetta is "sexy done right". She's still an overly sexualized character aimed at the male audience. No female player benefits from seeing Bayonetta spreading her legs in front of the screen (well, ok, apart from lesbians).

To that end, she is technically sexy done right. In that she's a fucktoy.

That's not where people are going with this, but I had to say it.

 

[Nieroshai]

I don't think Bayonetta is "sexy done right". She's still an overly sexualized character aimed at the male audience. No female player benefits from seeing Bayonetta spreading her legs in front of the screen (well, ok, apart from lesbians).

The problem is that female characters in videogames are so objectified that we've reached the point that even Bayonetta seems better by comparison, simply because she might be a sex doll striking up poses for the male player, but at least she's a protagonist who kicks ass.

Thankyouverymuch but I think we can and should do much better than Bayonetta.

I don't think Jacob is "sexy done right". He's still an overly sexualized character aimed at the female audience. No male viewer benefits from seeing Jacob flexing his pecks in front of the screen (well, ok, apart from gay guys).

See just how easy this argument is to turn round ?

Everyone doesn't have to get something from every aspect.
It's ok to have something aimed at a specific demographic.
It's ok for some-one not in that demographic to still enjoy the game.
It's not OK to say everything should be grey mass appeal goo.
It's not OK to say Extra Chunky is not an option.

Instead of Jacob try Dante... and with him in that context it TOTALLY works. Dante is awesome (to fans, let's not argue), and apparently girls find him sexy.