Poll: FFXV Episode Duscae - Good, average, bad?

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Meinos Kaen

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And how much would you pay for it at launch?

Personally, I found the demo to be very average overall, which considering the DECADE of development is disappointing as hell. The aesthetics, surprisingly, I liked. But the combat is mediocre and lackluster, especially in a world where Bayonetta and Kingdom Hearts exist. I literally won a few fights just by mashing Square over and over with one finger. During one I even answered my phone while 'fighting'. The only way they have to ramp up the difficulty is to send wave after wave of the same enemy at you, faster than you can kill them. Which is so cheap I can't even... It's a mishmash of mechanics trying to go in four different genre directions all at once. I knew this would happen, considering the number of hands this went through, but still...

Adding meh writing and a band of characters with little to no personality -which would be the worst Boy Band ever, considering their utter lack of chemistry-, I'd pay at most 50 for this if I decided to buy it at launch -which I won't-. 40 if it's short. What about you? What's your opinion on the game and how much would you pay for it at launch?
 

Thorn14

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Well they outright said it wasn't going to represent the final result....

Also some of the fights get a lot more serious and don't require just mashing square. Those simple fights against mooks where you can mash square are no different than the simple random battles where you mashed "attack" in previous FF.
 

Meinos Kaen

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Thorn14 said:
Well they outright said it wasn't going to represent the final result....

Also some of the fights get a lot more serious and don't require just mashing square. Those simple fights against mooks where you can mash square are no different than the simple random battles where you mashed "attack" in previous FF.
They said it wasn't going to represent the final result graphically. The engine and fighting system is that. They can't change it without incurring in at least another year of delays.

And 1): no, you didn't just 'mash attack' in older FFs. Try that in Final Fantasy 4 or even Final Fantasy 7 or even Final Fantasy XII, see how that goes for you. 2) No, they don't get a lot more serious. They just throw more enemies at you all at the same time. That's not 'more serious', that's a cheap way of ramping up the difficulty. More serious would be if suddenly you needed a different strategy to fight this enemy instead of the other one.
 

thoughtwrangler

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In a way they *are* different than those battles. They're quicker than old school FF battles, and have much the same result and usual lack of strategy (except for bosses on some of the tougher FF games.)
 

EternallyBored

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@Meinos Kaen (sorry, my quote button isn't working)I never beat 12, but Auto attack battles were pretty common for me in both FF 7 and FF 4, as in, except for a few specific enemy types, almost always just some variety of Flan or other physically immune enemy, which usually just involved spamming whatever elemental spell worked best, I could go through entire dungeons spamming auto attack in 90% of fights except the boss.

This isn't some vague memory either, I just rebeat FF 7 a couple months ago after rebuying it on Steam, there were very few battles I couldn't win just spamming attack, using abilities made battles easier and faster, but it was easy to make it to the next save point and heal up and restore MP long before I ran out, so efficiency rarely mattered. When I was rushing through an area my battles consisted of spamming the A button on the controller hooked up to my computer while I watched T.V., I know I made it through the Cosmo Canyon Dungeon and the Golden saucer desert with pretty much nothing other than auto-attack outside the boss battles. I dunno what you are talking about, while FF games have had challenging enemies in the past, they also tend to be full of auto-attack fodder that pretty much just exists to waste time. Some were a lot worse with this than others, but every FF game I've played has involved mindless auto-attack battles at some point or another.
 

thoughtwrangler

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@EternallyBored - I agree. I like the old school Final Fantasy despite the battle system, not because of them. FFX had an interesting implementation but the vast majority of FF battles require little to no strategic thinking. Like 90% of them if I'm being generous. I'm counting 4 (even hardtype), 6, 7, 8, and 9 in that assessment. Aside from boss battles, the only time I deviated from tiredly mashing Attack was when I just got bored and felt like seeing something different.

A couple exceptions: FF1, 3 and 5 had the class systems, which forced you to adapt to battles with whatever skillset you had rather than a more or less predetermined set. There's a huge difference between playing FF1 with a balanced party and a party of all White Mages. FF2 forced you to think about what actions you took because your stats were tied to things you did in battle (similar to future SaGa games.)

FF8 WOULD be much the same thing, except for the draw system, so it's only 75% attack attack attack, 15% draw and 10% strategic thinking. Again, being incredibly generous there.

Not trying to hate on the series and if someone is playing it strategically just for fun, that's great. That's roleplaying in a way, because you're using the tools of the game to "color" your gaming experience. But I find it odd that we've been lamenting the death of old-fashioned strategy in Final Fantasy, when it's only existed sporadically, and mostly in the least popular entries of the series.
 

Tatsuki

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Meinos Kaen said:
Thorn14 said:
Well they outright said it wasn't going to represent the final result....

Also some of the fights get a lot more serious and don't require just mashing square. Those simple fights against mooks where you can mash square are no different than the simple random battles where you mashed "attack" in previous FF.
They said it wasn't going to represent the final result graphically. The engine and fighting system is that. They can't change it without incurring in at least another year of delays.

And 1): no, you didn't just 'mash attack' in older FFs. Try that in Final Fantasy 4 or even Final Fantasy 7 or even Final Fantasy XII, see how that goes for you. 2) No, they don't get a lot more serious. They just throw more enemies at you all at the same time. That's not 'more serious', that's a cheap way of ramping up the difficulty. More serious would be if suddenly you needed a different strategy to fight this enemy instead of the other one.

I have to defend the mash attack in FF4 and 7. In 4 I often grind and save mp for pure heals unless its a difficult area or short distance to next town.

As for 7, well I always make my Cloud a pure melee beast, only giving him passive and command materias (except Bio, because me loves a poison weapon) and the entire game I spam attack, extending to the whole party outside of big battles and as has been said previously, some pain in the backside enemies with huge damage resistance to standard attacks.


*edit*

Oh yea the topic.
I found Duscae to be... well good.

The problem I have is the reason I have for finding the game good, is bad. Square has been squandering my trust for years now and my expectations have been low. The MMOs are ok but I prefer my straight up RPGs which has left me longing even more for something new, a scratch that XIII not only didn't itch, but proceeded to infect and cause further agony.

The stringing together of weapons / attacks was fairly well done, the game is pretty and the game seemed to have some life to it which is absent in most FF games. Even if its not actually happening, it feels like the world is going on without me which hasn't struck me in many other games.

All in all the game is going back in the right direction in relation to the previous game, they are trying new mechanics still (which I am a huge advocate for) and while the characters seem to be annoying, they mostly seem self aware about this.
 

Meinos Kaen

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Sorry, but I have to ask: how can you say that the fighting system is good when the skills do NOT string together? There needs to be a pause and for the attacks to be over to even start them.

Also, I can understand that it's a step up from XIII, but we have action RPG games from 2001 that play better and feel and look better! Kingdom Hearts, just to begin with! Magna Carta also played much better! Are you really so desperate for Final Fantasy to be decent again that you'll accept mediocre just because it's not shit and pay 70 BUCKS for it?!

It is pretty, I'll give you that, but graphics have NEVER BEEN THE PROBLEM with Final Fantasy games!
 

Danny Dowling

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Want to revive this thread because I finally got around to playing Episode Duscae yesterday. And holy hell did I love it!

The characters are cool; 4 guys you can see them hanging out although they've been brought together by something else (turns out one is royalty, chances are that's what brings them together). The combat is cool, it sort of brings to light a sense of understanding about what's going on in an FF fight from back in the old days. Like finally game technology has allowed us to see the true intention.

I like the characters but I think your characters' voice is waaaaaay too husky for him.

The combat is cool, when you get to the goblin cave you realise mashing square doesn't work.

His warp out of a battle was a bit of a pain, as was trying to stop him from locking on to certain enemies across the other side of the battlefield when there was something trying to bite my ass off where I was.

Judgement Bolt is... well... I had the weirdest boner when it happened.

Basically I'm super looking forward to FF XV and I'm now super excited for it I think it'll be awesome.
 

Tilly

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I didn't actually play it but I watched about 5 lets plays so I've given myself pseudo-authority to pass judgement.

The thing that's really striking me about the game is how real the world feels. I haven't been this impressed by a Square Enix fantasy world since FF12. It kinda feels inline with the FF7/FF8 trend of slightly futuristic, slightly real, slightly magical.

I was also feeling the characters for the first time in a long while. They had chemistry. There was an attention to realism in their interactions rather than some cliched grand opera going on like in 13 where people are like trying to alter their destiny and all that innit.

I also quite like the boy's road trip idea. Final Fantasy has never really done that. It's always been the kinda half men half women band of misfits. And then X-2 which was a really awful girls day out where they tried their hardest to ruin one of their finest characters (Yuna)
 

Buffoon1980

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I voted 'average'. I'm one of the biggest FF fans you'll ever meet, I love them all (yes, including XIII and its offspring), and I'm sure I'll enjoy XV, but I have to admit I was slightly underwhelmed by the demo. The combat seems a bit fiddly, and the visuals are actually disappointing. I was playing FFXIII today on PC at 4K resolution, and I couldn't help thinking that it looked better than anything in the XV demo.

Anyway, there's still so much I'm looking forward to with XV, but I can't quite say the demo was 'great'.
 

Danny Dowling

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Tilly said:
I didn't actually play it but I watched about 5 lets plays so I've given myself pseudo-authority to pass judgement.

The thing that's really striking me about the game is how real the world feels. I haven't been this impressed by a Square Enix fantasy world since FF12. It kinda feels inline with the FF7/FF8 trend of slightly futuristic, slightly real, slightly magical.

I was also feeling the characters for the first time in a long while. They had chemistry. There was an attention to realism in their interactions rather than some cliched grand opera going on like in 13 where people are like trying to alter their destiny and all that innit.

I also quite like the boy's road trip idea. Final Fantasy has never really done that. It's always been the kinda half men half women band of misfits. And then X-2 which was a really awful girls day out where they tried their hardest to ruin one of their finest characters (Yuna)
Yeah I felt the same about the characters. I'm sure all the hipsters will be out in full force complaining about the lack of female characters but it just wouldn't fit. What I got from the characters was a prince, his muscle, his advisory and his mate. Obviously the muscle and the advisory have a professional interest forcing them together but there is still a degree of chemistry there (which is entirely a believable thing) and the friend is a bit weak but he's part of it and there's clearly some kind of watching over the other two do for him also (which is natural considering their profession).

Also with regards to where it sits with style etc; apparently this one is supposed to be closer to real world... can you see it? (lol). But yeah it is supposed to be a kind-of-real-world-ish sort of period/setting.

Now contrary to what @Buffoon1980 said, I thought the world was gorgeous. No, I haven't played FF XIII in 4K (that degree of cringe shouldn't be legal in 4K) but within the graphical capabilities of the PS4 the game looks incredible. The light of the sun meeting the blue of the sky, those crazy rocky things in the distance (until you're face to face) those massive creatures hanging around in the pool, wandering through the fields a midst those big woolly mammoth like things. It isn't 4K, nothing that isn't made 4K is ever going to be 4K, but it is beautiful. In the same way, the moment you beat Robotnik in the extra level on Sonic 3 when you're going through space and Sonic is falling back to Earth with the Master Emerald, that was beautiful as well. It isn't 4K, but it was a beautiful scene.
 

CaptainMarvelous

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Meinos Kaen said:
They said it wasn't going to represent the final result graphically. The engine and fighting system is that. They can't change it without incurring in at least another year of delays.

And 1): no, you didn't just 'mash attack' in older FFs. Try that in Final Fantasy 4 or even Final Fantasy 7 or even Final Fantasy XII, see how that goes for you. 2) No, they don't get a lot more serious. They just throw more enemies at you all at the same time. That's not 'more serious', that's a cheap way of ramping up the difficulty. More serious would be if suddenly you needed a different strategy to fight this enemy instead of the other one.
o_O I'm not sure why you'd cite XII there because while I didn't mash attack I didn't mash ANYTHING, I just moved the left stick until I won the game. You have a better argument with 4 or 7, bud.

OT: I kinda disagreed totally with the OP so I'll express my thoughts and invite a rebuttal.

I did kinda feel like the game had the easy mode of having Blood Sword as your combo and a lance for the opening to make sure you cleared a way and had max MP, but it was a demo so balance wasn't what I was expecting. I think the strength of the game is that you need to incorporate dodging to beat harder opponents. Like, trying to takedown Dead-eye requires some real strategy but Noctis isn't super agile you need to use his magic crystal mcguffin powers to maintain distance which isn't an unlimited resource, and you can opt to remove you but not your party from combat for a recharge leaving them to fend for themselves. Strategically, that's way different than any other action styled game.

I mean, against those stupid saberdog things you can just hold attack = win but keeping an eye out for parries and being able to use different weapons if you time strikes is kinda awesome (going partisan, bloodsword, zweihander in a 3 hit combo was pretty satisfying). The combat is still a WIP which is a little discouraging given how long it's been so I'm expecting magic to be a big boost to strategy, given the only element right now is do you attack/defend/skill, it's not about the combos which is more akin to old style final fantasy's (most obviously in when you deploy skills, is your health low enough to drain from the opponents? Are there enough to warrant a Dragoon jump? Do you have enough distance for Full Charge?)

I will say, in the spirit of fairness, you have a point that KH may have had a better combat system but I think FFXV's one does have a good shot if it develops a little more. Demo doesn't exactly give a good range of weapons involved and potential combos of weapon abilities.

Writing-wise, I'm actually a lot more fond of these 4 then I was the entire cast of XII and XIII (brief exceptions, Balthier and Sazh).
Noctis isn't just the emo prince we were all thinking he was, he's a lazy ass doing his best out of a bad situation and he's even got a sense of humor, sarcastic though it might be (I count 5 times he mentions being tired and wants a nap). Compare to Vaan 'I'm Bash fon Rosenburg' or Lightning's... whatever Lightning had, Noctis starts to look pretty good even with minimal information.
Gladio was always looking fun but the battlecry of "Quit bitching and start killing" has grown on me (enough that I want to retroactively insert him in earlier FF games, Squall needs to hear that shit). He's clearly protective, clearly from the lowest social background, but he's got a major big brother going on with just about everyone.
Ignis always felt like he was going to be a nothing character, all about the organisation and keeping the group moving, his saving grace for me came when he referred to the kitchen as his laboratory to a terrified Prompto. He's refined, he's immaculate, he has multiple pairs of glasses in case he breaks the pair he has (which I know because Noctis asked)
And then we get to Prompto, didn't like him in the trailers, thought I wouldn't like him in the demo, but he grew on me from inferrence. Ignis and Gladio have duties to the prince, they're probably wanted, but Prompto? He comes across as along for the ride purely because he's friends with Noctis, and he's also clearly the weak link. He goes down the most, he stumbles in combat, Gladio and Ignis are nearly always bailing him out. But they do bail him out, Gladio in particular tells him to sit one fight out because it's dangerous: Why the hell did no-one tell Hope that? Prompto is only here, in a dangerous ass situation, because he's loyal to a friend. Plus he's kind of the butt monkey, Gladio telling him to solo a quest was pretty amusing.

Motivation wise, the entire group has a chemistry independent of Noctis and they just feel like bros. Yeah I'd like more female characters involved with the group since Cindy is nearly a cardboard cut-out in the demo but these four do seem pretty tight knit to me, way more than any other group since probably even X. So yeah... massive dispute on the lack of chemistry front, the writing for these guys is light-years ahead of the last two numbered single player games.
 

Barakon

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I got to play a little of it over at a friend's house (I refuse to pay $60 for Type-O) and I was pleased but at the same time pissed off.

The changes to the combat are what left a sour taste in my mouth. You can tell they completely smeared off Nomura's vision for more visceral KH-style combat and replaced it with something they just threw together. After a while of playing, I got more used to it and was able to figure out some nuance, like the timing of switching between holding down the attack button and pressing it to change the attack you do but I felt like the game would benefit much more from the originally planned system.

My biggest gripe with the current version of this game is that none of the Nomura-direction seems left besides the basic character design. I can't assume they completely changed the story he had written but it's clear they altered the darker tone he had planned in favor of presenting the game as a lighthearted, road-trip movie. Also, Noctis's voice is pretty terrible. He sounds like if Sasuke smoked a pack a day and took a lot of naps. Honestly, I don't really like any of the English voices lol. But my friend said there were no English subtitles for the Japanese audio so I was ass out.

Other than all the criticisms, the game is beautiful. The animations are smooth and everything is rendered nicely. It's a nice game to look at overall and the actual RPG systems they have going on underneath the hood are interesting. The camping system is interesting and gives you a sense of urgency when you're on a long stretch without resting with a shrunken health bar. Hopefully there are more side-quests to be offered in the real game though.

Overall, I'm still buying it. I just wish they didn't change SO much. The 2011 demo looked perfect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiIx9VJWSl8