Poll: Final Fantasy character progression systems

[AC Medina]

This is something of a "sister thread" to the one going about people's favorite FF game, but this one is focused on the character progression system, by which I mean the in-game mechanics through which the party learns spells and abilities (and increases its stats, in some cases). A little pros and cons analysis of each one, courtesy of...well, me.

Materia (FFVII)

Pros: Materia is an integral part of VII's plot and gameworld, so it really flows naturally that it's the basis for character progression. Finding new, unique Materia makes for exciting moments. It allows for great combinations/customization to suit the player's style.

Cons: Perhaps allows for a bit too much customization; I've never liked the "each character can do absolutely everything" approach (Barret casting Heal? Weird.), but that is quite possibly just me. Requires a fair bit of in-menu micromanaging, especially when switching party members.

Junction (FFVIII)

Pros: Tying character progression to summons and spells is actually an innovative idea. Again, allows for a fair bit of customization.

Cons: Requires a lot of what I call "prep work," like endlessly Drawing and sucking an enemy dry as opposed to, you know, engaging in exciting combat. Again, requires a fair bit of in-menu micromanaging.

Acquire skills through equipment (FFIX)

Pros: Gives a purpose to what, in many RPGs, eventually becomes useless item/equipment hoarding. Makes for the deepest inventory system of any FF game. Often forces you to make strategic choices (use the sword with the best stats or the best skill to learn?). Reinforces each character's identity through the set of skills available to them -- Vivi is a black mage, Steiner is a knight, and their roles in battle should reflect that.

Cons: Involves fairly constant in-menu micromanaging. Won't appeal to fans of total customization.

Sphere Grid (FFX) *MY CHOICE*

Pros: Like IX, reinforces each character's natural role and skills; unlike IX, still allows complete customization. The Sphere Grid guides you on the most intuitive path and dissuades you from making crazy choices, but you could turn Lulu into a tank and Auron into a healer if you so desired. Branching paths, key spheres and special spheres require strategic choices. Fairly constant "leveling up" makes for steady, rewarding progress.

Cons: Mostly unrelated to anything going on in the actual game. Requires fairly constant in-menu micro-management. At the endgame, when many skills are known by multiple characters, somewhat diminishes each one's special role/value within the party. (Really? I'm nitpicking.)

License Board (FFXII) *Full disclosure: I've played but not finished XII*

Pros: Allows for customization without getting too far away from each character's "intended" role. Somewhat innovative idea. Relatively low/infrequent in-menu micromanagement needed.

Cons: What the hell is a "license board"? I suppose it's the sphere grid's cousin, but the name alone makes it sound lamer, and progress seems to come somewhat slowly. Oh, and the notion of having to buy "permission" to use a short sword is ludicrous. That's an important point.

Crystarium (FFXIII)

Pros: Like everything else in XIII, it looks good. It's tangentially connected to the game. It's an integral part of the Roles/Paradigms system, which was really successful at solving the "impossible problem" of turn-based JRPGs: making combat dynamic and involved.

Cons: It gives the illusion of allowing for choice and requiring strategy, but doesn't. There are short detours, but it's still a linear path, and while, in the end, each character can technically learn any role, practically you're stuck with the two or three you're assigned at the beginning. And those don't make a lot of sense: the gun-toting pilot is an offensive mage? The sunny, cheery girl casts debuffs, poison and death?



So...discuss.

 

[Flying-Emu]

Where's the option for FFIII, where your character's skills leveled up as you used them?

I liked having a mage who also beat shit with axes.

 

[AC Medina]

Where's the option for FFIII, where your character's skills leveled up as you used them?

I liked having a mage who also beat shit with axes.

I didn't want to have a ridiculously long poll. I thought about including a "Jobs system" option, since that covers a couple of the older FF games...I guess I should've at least added an "Other" option. Meh. Hopefully people will mention them here, anyway.

 

[-Seraph-]

The Esper system from FF6 and Job system from Tactics are the best I've experienced.

The Esper system was a precursor to the Materia system in a mechanical sense, difference being that transferring Espers did not transfer skills like Materia did. Any character can learn any spell and there were a defined rate at which the spell would be learned. On top of that, the Espers were summons in battle and awarded extra bonuses upon level-up of that character depending on the Esper equipped.You could custom tailor each character to learn the skills you wanted them to learn, but unlike the Materia system it more or less required a little more work. It even tied in incredibly well with the plot as it was one of the major points of the story.

Tactics job system is pretty much the epitome of character progression in the FF series. Anyone can be any job and learn any ability but to get that omni character requires more work than many are willing to invest. Tons of jobs all with varying uses in battle, providing tons of options for strategy.

Where's the option for FFIII, where your character's skills leveled up as you used them?

I liked having a mage who also beat shit with axes.

You sure you don't mean FF2? I loved that system too, had such an amazing concept that really required some polish to it. It's easily exploitable but it's sheer concept was way ahead of it's time and I am probably one of the few people who ever beat FF2 WITHOUT exploiting the system at all. That was fucking hard but so damn rewarding. The GBA/PSP remake refined the system more but still contained a few blemishes in it, but ultimately it's a really awesome and versatile system which i wanna see in more RPGs.

 

[Kimarous]

I've always liked the Sphere Grid system. Granted, it can be a bit annoying when you don't have the spheres that you explicitly desire, sometimes grinding your progression to a halt, but other than that...

 

[AC Medina]

The Esper system from FF6 and Job system from Tactics are the best I've experienced.

The Esper system was a precursor to the Materia system in a mechanical sense, difference being that transferring Espers did not transfer skills like Materia did. Any character can learn any spell and there were a defined rate at which the spell would be learned. On top of that, the Espers were summons in battle and awarded extra bonuses upon level-up of that character depending on the Esper equipped.You could custom tailor each character to learn the skills you wanted them to learn, but unlike the Materia system it more or less required a little more work. It even tied in incredibly well with the plot as it was one of the major points of the story.

Tactics job system is pretty much the epitome of character progression in the FF series. Anyone can be any job and learn any ability but to get that omni character requires more work than many are willing to invest. Tons of jobs all with varying uses in battle, providing tons of options for strategy.

As you can probably gather from my preference for 9 and 10's systems, I think it really helps the game on many levels when there are more-or-less explicit roles assigned for each party member; I think it strengthens the character development from a plot point of view.

In my opinion, no game does this better than FFX. Lulu is dark and mysterious like her black magic. Auron is a stalwart guardian who shatters the enemy's defenses. Rikku is the playful item specialist who uses her Al Bhed techie skills. Again, I just think it reinforces our notion of and our relationship to each character when they're well defined in battle as well as in the story, and I think you lose some of that with the total customization/everyone can be everything systems.

I have some fond memories of the Esper system, but also remember being turned off by the amount of micromanagement necessary.

 

[-Seraph-]

In my opinion, no game does this better than FFX. Lulu is dark and mysterious like her black magic. Auron is a stalwart guardian who shatters the enemy's defenses. Rikku is the playful item specialist who uses her Al Bhed techie skills. Again, I just think it reinforces our notion of and our relationship to each character when they're well defined in battle as well as in the story, and I think you lose some of that with the total customization/everyone can be everything systems.

6 still had characters with specific abilities, so despite them being fully customizable, they still all had their own unique attribute to bring into battle. Role specifics can be a pain sometimes and can be too constrictive. I'm all about balancing characters so they are more than just a single cookie cutter role. I hardly noticed the micromanagement probably because I'm probably so damn accustomed to doing that sort of crap that I breeze through it. It was pretty damn simple too unless you wanted to be hard core and REALLY guide a characters stat growth by manipulating the level up bonuses to an extreme degree. I never really did that though seeing as the game wasn't that difficult....or a PnP RPG...

 

[AC Medina]

In my opinion, no game does this better than FFX. Lulu is dark and mysterious like her black magic. Auron is a stalwart guardian who shatters the enemy's defenses. Rikku is the playful item specialist who uses her Al Bhed techie skills. Again, I just think it reinforces our notion of and our relationship to each character when they're well defined in battle as well as in the story, and I think you lose some of that with the total customization/everyone can be everything systems.

6 still had characters with specific abilities, so despite them being fully customizable, they still all had their own unique attribute to bring into battle. Role specifics can be a pain sometimes and can be too constrictive. I'm all about balancing characters so they are more than just a single cookie cutter role. I hardly noticed the micromanagement probably because I'm probably so damn accustomed to doing that sort of crap that I breeze through it. It was pretty damn simple too unless you wanted to be hard core and REALLY guide a characters stat growth by manipulating the level up bonuses to an extreme degree. I never really did that though seeing as the game wasn't that difficult....or a PnP RPG...

Hmm...you're making me want to replay FF6. So I guess I should thank you!

 

[-Seraph-]

Hmm...you're making me want to replay FF6. So I guess I should thank you!

Just remember the always have Saben and to souplex that damn train. Oh and Edgard Drill and Chainsaw = WIN. I do remember creating a terrifyingly strong Sabin would excelled in pretty much everything. Could beat the shit out of anyone with his fists or nuke em with stupid powerful spells, and that's not taking into account his Blitzes. He was a thing of beauty....cruel, bloodthirsty, murderous beauty.

 

[Sliverwings]

I like the system in FFII where as you use stuff, you get better in it. A black mage who happens to do 8000+ and uses Dual Swords, yay for playing too much FFII.

 

[StBishop]

I can't comment on alot of the older final fantasy's. I've played 1 and 4 (2? Cecil's in it) then everything in (what I consider) the main series (non MMO/handheld) since 7

I voted for Sphere Grid because I liked it the most but I also like the Licence Board.

Yeah, the idea of buying a spell from a shop as well as on the licence board was kinda silly, or buying a licence to defend yourself with a sword in the middle of a desert where no one is going to care/see.

But the actual mechanics (ignoring the silly explainations) were pretty good. You could either buy all of the swords or just the ones you had, you could focus on getting licenes for weapons rather than armour. Or simply buy buffs and ignore items all together.

It was a pretty cool idea and I don't like the Crystalarium comparitively.

I regularly max out the role I want to use and then have to either decide to spend points in other, crappier roles or wait around 'til the story progresses.

I understand that there are stat boosts to be had. I would rather get them in the role I like and then go back for them once I'm a max level Commando.

 

[WilliamRLBaker]

wheres the esper system from final fantasy 6?
Id pick that one, it was easy to use, and in the hard type version of the game, only terra and celes could equip espers.
which REALLY cut down on over powering the other characters in the game.

 

[WilliamRLBaker]

In my opinion, no game does this better than FFX. Lulu is dark and mysterious like her black magic. Auron is a stalwart guardian who shatters the enemy's defenses. Rikku is the playful item specialist who uses her Al Bhed techie skills. Again, I just think it reinforces our notion of and our relationship to each character when they're well defined in battle as well as in the story, and I think you lose some of that with the total customization/everyone can be everything systems.

6 still had characters with specific abilities, so despite them being fully customizable, they still all had their own unique attribute to bring into battle. Role specifics can be a pain sometimes and can be too constrictive. I'm all about balancing characters so they are more than just a single cookie cutter role. I hardly noticed the micromanagement probably because I'm probably so damn accustomed to doing that sort of crap that I breeze through it. It was pretty damn simple too unless you wanted to be hard core and REALLY guide a characters stat growth by manipulating the level up bonuses to an extreme degree. I never really did that though seeing as the game wasn't that difficult....or a PnP RPG...

yeah something I tell people that love ff6 is that they should play hard type, it restricts esper usage only to terra and celes since they use magic...every one else cannot equip them thus no magic usage or level bonuses...it really increases the difficulty.

 

[AC Medina]

It was a pretty cool idea and I don't like the Crystalarium comparitively.

I regularly max out the role I want to use and then have to either decide to spend points in other, crappier roles or wait around 'til the story progresses.

I understand that there are stat boosts to be had. I would rather get them in the role I like and then go back for them once I'm a max level Commando.

Yeah, that's another big flaw of the Crystarium -- especially in the endgame when it makes it pretty much impossible to finish the side-missions before "finishing" the actual game" because that last level of upgrades remains locked.

 

[Lord_Jaroh]

I prefer the license board of FFXII, however the only thing it is missing is limits upon how many squares you can get. If there were limits, each character would be more unique in what you ended up getting them to learn rather than having them learn everything...

 

[Russian_Assassin]

I never liked any of those systems, since they all looked like Microsoft Excel spreadsheets to be. I did like the garment grid however, since I'm one of those backwards people who found X-2 amusing.

 

[2xDouble]

Out of the ones listed, I have to give this one a toss-up between the Materia and Sphere Grid systems, all the others you've listed (except for FFIX) are variations of those themes. Materia edges Sphere Grid out slightly in my opinion due to the fact you don't have to collect other random crap to use/level/evolve it. Sphere grid is great in theory, but adds an item farming element to level grinding, unless you decide to focus solely on 3 or 4 characters (which you probably should anyway, as most of the characters are useless until you grind yourself silly.)

Out of ALL Final Fantasy, however, I have to go with FF6 Level/Esper system. It's like the Weapon systems from FF2 and FF9, but the equipment doesn't override what your characters are doing. They also leave the individual characters open to use their own unique abilities. All the characters can do everything, but still feel unique and special (even more so than FF7). I also like the Job systems from FF5 and Tactics for similar reasons.

 

[AC Medina]

I never liked any of those systems, since they all looked like Microsoft Excel spreadsheets to be. I did like the garment grid however, since I'm one of those backwards people who found X-2 amusing.

I actually like X-2, such as it is. Can't agree with you about the Garment Grid, though; it seems like a character progression system designed to appeal to girls who like to dress up Barbies...

...but that may be because that's who it was designed to appeal to.

Out of the ones listed, I have to give this one a toss-up between the Materia and Sphere Grid systems, all the others you've listed (except for FFIX) are variations of those themes. Materia edges Sphere Grid out slightly in my opinion due to the fact you don't have to collect other random crap to use/level/evolve it. Sphere grid is great in theory, but adds an item farming element to level grinding, unless you decide to focus solely on 3 or 4 characters (which you probably should anyway, as most of the characters are useless until you grind yourself silly.)

I'm somewhat surprised to read that. I found FFX to be really well-balanced in that regard, the progression seemed pretty natural to me without requiring much (or, really, any) grinding or farming for for key spheres until, perhaps, the very end, when the highest level spells and abilities are behind three or four level 4 locks. But, even then, the enemies you should naturally be fighting at that point (Inside Sin or The Omega Dungeon) should provide enough of those.

 

[2xDouble]

wheres the esper system from final fantasy 6?
Id pick that one, it was easy to use, and in the hard type version of the game, only terra and celes could equip espers.
which REALLY cut down on over powering the other characters in the game.

I tried that once... all it really does is make getting Edgar's Air Anchor (easily the most awesome ability in the game) that much more difficult. But once you have it, you're golden. Skillful use of Mog's, Gau's and Gogo's abilities can more than make up for lack of magic and summons. Also, *pulls up Nerd Pants, gives +5 to Nerding* Relm and Strago learn/use magic too... but that's all off-topic. lol

OT: I agree that FFIV Esper skill system is one of if not THE best of the entire series. Followed closely by the Materia, Sphere Grid, and Job systems (from V, not III).