Poll: Gay Marriage

[Bigeyez]

Only on paper, but no church, since the church has been against homosexuality for 2000 years so that would be blasphemy

Another misconception. Like I said in my post earlier which I will now quote. "Catechism, which is the definition of marriage the church has now (man+woman) was adopted by the church until 1566." So now the church has not been against same sex marriage for 2000 years. Not that the church even invented marriage anyways. The reason this and other laws regarded marriage were passed in the 1500's is because the Church was reforming for the second time and was launching an enormous grab for power.

Beforehand gay marriage existed and the church never objected to it.

You know that was the time of the spanish inquisiton, where you would be killed if you said a trivial thing because of alleged heresy, where homosexuals were among others viewed as heretics and burned to death, so there was no gay marriage there. And you keep forgeting there are 3 christian churches and many sects that derived from it (sect being a teological term)

Um first of all you seemed to have completely missed the point of my post. Your stating that the church has been against gay marriage for 2000 years. Thats false because, like I stated the first Church doctrines banning gay marriage were'nt put into place untill the mid 1500's. And yes there were still gay marriages at that time. The Roman Catholic church doesn't own "marriage" and Europe isn't the only place that exists. In plenty of other places in many different religions gay marriage existed during the time period between 1400-1800 which is the 200 years the spanish inquisition takes place in. And all modern Christian sects evolved from Roman Catholiscm so don't see what your talking about there.

There is absolutely no proof that children adopted by a gay family will be gay themselves, that is such an ignorant and small minded view.

oh please at least 90% turn out gay, its a fact, you grow up in the belief that its how its supposed to be and that you should be like your parents, its how a child's brain evolves by learning from its parents, maybe not in tv shows but thats the reality,perhaps you are the closed minded one. Heres a tip, visit other countries and see their view on religion and homosexuality, not every nation is USA or Scandinavia, im speaking for all people and all churches not just one place.

Can you prove this "fact"?

Maybe you should just think this through, if a child is so influenced by it's parents sexuality how do gay people even exist since they must be the child of straight parents.

Ahh but think about it, some people are from straight parents but they turn out gay but thats like 1% so in your way of thinking, only 1% of people from gay parents will turn out straight, so you in a way agree with what i say

Again stop pulling shit out of your ass. You are just spewing nonsense and have nothing to back it up with. Like I said before if you follow your logic 90% of kids with parents who murder grow up to be murderers. Untill you can find actual FACTS to back up yoru ridiculous claims you should just stop posting because your coming across like a raving idiot.

Ok, they you do the same and find me some facts to support your claim.

im waiting

Sure here you go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage

You can also go to your local library and check out the countless number of books on Marriage and it's ties to religion. I invite you to do so because gaining more knowledge on the subject will more likely then not help you understand the subject matter better.

Actual books are a much better source then any Wiki anyways so go ahead and pick up some books yourself and read.

Dude you just burned yourself, first words:

Marriage is a social union or legal contract between a MAN AND A WOMAN that creates kinship

/sigh Because thats the legal definition it has now. Like I said actually READ it, especially the history on marriage. Go READ the sections about religion and marriage. Go READ the section about same sex marriage. And lastly go READ books on the subject. Until you inform yourself all your doing is spreading falsehoods and outright lies.

 

[Xanadu84]

Only on paper, but no church, since the church has been against homosexuality for 2000 years so that would be blasphemy

But you used to go to Hell for eating meat on a friday so why can't they change their opinion on gay marriage?

what you eat meat on friday??!! (just joking)

Well they have preached against it much harder than eating on friday, and they cant just go around changing holy law, its not up to them to change things anyway, some things are better left the way they are.

That is a silly view, the church will continue to lessen in importance if it doesn't change and adapt to the modern world. The core principles of Christianity are peace and love, denying a group of people the right to show and consummate their love in the eyes of god because people 2000 years ago didn't like it is just too daft for words.

That your subjective opinion not what everyone else thinks, the primary point of the church being that marriage is the union of a man and woman under god, and they are expected to make children and form the natural bond as they should, whilst gay marriage wont produce anything, other than adopted children that will 100% be gay as well, and the church shouldnt adopt to everything modern, in that way under the cross there would be a coca cola sign

There is absolutely no proof that children adopted by a gay family will be gay themselves, that is such an ignorant and small minded view.

oh please at least 90% turn out gay, its a fact, you grow up in the belief that its how its supposed to be and that you should be like your parents, its how a child's brain evolves by learning from its parents, maybe not in tv shows but thats the reality,perhaps you are the closed minded one. Heres a tip, visit other countries and see their view on religion and homosexuality, not every nation is USA or Scandinavia, im speaking for all people and all churches not just one place.

Its not a fact, its an outright fabrication, and I challenge you to bring forth a single legitimate study that says anything even remotely to the contrary.

My church accepts gay marriage. You telling me what I'm allowed to believe?

Did i at any point tell you what to believe? - no. i dont really care that your church accepts gay marriage, thats their choice, im orthodox christian and gay marriage is not at all accepted, but feel free to believe what you want.

Alright, so you do think they should allow gay marriage. Glad we have that cleared up.

Ok are you crazy? By not influencing your subjective opinion i support gay marriage? do i also support hitler for eating cookies? You and your church can believe what you want, you have the freedom of opinion but its different from mine

So you are allowed to deny my church the right to marry gay people, because you're against gay marriage, but my church can't tell yours that it has to marry gay people? Either all churches are allowed to marry gay people if it is there prerogative, or you are breaking 1st amendment rights. Why is your church given government approval, but mine is not?

 

[scotth266]

Well, this thread has been a joy to look through... 7 pages of people tooting each other's horns, a bizarre debate over whether homosexuality led to the downfall of Rome, and a crap-ton of anti-religious sentiments. Goody goody gumdrops.

[HEADING=1]LET'S GET SOMETHING STRAIGHT HERE: NOT ALL RELIGIOUS FOLK THINK THE SAME WAY, AND THEY ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE DIFFERING OPINIONS ON MATTERS OF THE FAITH.[/HEADING]

It pains me whenever I see a comparison between religious folk and sheep. Whoever has posted that: you sir, are the sheep for having indulged in a popular misconception and a tired joke that hasn't been funny for many years now. HUR HUR SHEEP COMPARISON IS FUNNY CUZ JESUS WAS A SHEPHERD OF MEN IN BIBLE!

For fuck's sake. If I had the power to reach through the Internet, I'd slap you for being as intolerant towards faith as you make faith out to be towards gay marriage.

I'd rant more, but I'd just be derailing the topic. So my position: sure, make it legal, but call it a civil union for the moment and make it an entirely secular thing. Ordinary marriages can be this way: you don't need a ceremony in a Church: that's a common fallacy.

As to why you shouldn't call it marriage: people need to suck it up and realize that for the moment, there are still plenty of intolerant people out there, and you aren't going to win them over by shouting them down. You need to take it slow, and be a little tolerant towards them. If you're militaristic about gay rights, you'll only encourage them and swell their ranks with people who were swayed towards their end.

 

[jeiku]

let people love who they love, it isn't something you choose like to go to war or something...maybe the government should worry about that a bit more than oppressing homosexuality.

 

[Lynx]

I'm just sick of hearing all the conservatives blathering about how legalizing gay marriage is a threat to the human race, because for some reason they believe that if it's legal, then everyone will "choose to be gay" and we'll stop having children. That is some ridiculous crap right there. Lord knows they'll stay straight as a signpost if the bill passes, so I'm not quite sure where they perceive a threat.

Anyway, I'm all for legalizing it. People have the right to love who they want, and by extension, marry who they want. It's unfair that straight couples get the legal and social benefits of being married and gay couples are left out in the cold. So, let them get married! It won't sterilize our species as some people seem to think.

100% what I was going to say.


(And even if the legalization DID decrease the number of newborn children per year - I'd say "good!")

 

[Bigeyez]

Only on paper, but no church, since the church has been against homosexuality for 2000 years so that would be blasphemy

But you used to go to Hell for eating meat on a friday so why can't they change their opinion on gay marriage?

what you eat meat on friday??!! (just joking)

Well they have preached against it much harder than eating on friday, and they cant just go around changing holy law, its not up to them to change things anyway, some things are better left the way they are.

That is a silly view, the church will continue to lessen in importance if it doesn't change and adapt to the modern world. The core principles of Christianity are peace and love, denying a group of people the right to show and consummate their love in the eyes of god because people 2000 years ago didn't like it is just too daft for words.

That your subjective opinion not what everyone else thinks, the primary point of the church being that marriage is the union of a man and woman under god, and they are expected to make children and form the natural bond as they should, whilst gay marriage wont produce anything, other than adopted children that will 100% be gay as well, and the church shouldnt adopt to everything modern, in that way under the cross there would be a coca cola sign

There is absolutely no proof that children adopted by a gay family will be gay themselves, that is such an ignorant and small minded view.

oh please at least 90% turn out gay, its a fact, you grow up in the belief that its how its supposed to be and that you should be like your parents, its how a child's brain evolves by learning from its parents, maybe not in tv shows but thats the reality,perhaps you are the closed minded one. Heres a tip, visit other countries and see their view on religion and homosexuality, not every nation is USA or Scandinavia, im speaking for all people and all churches not just one place.

Its not a fact, its an outright fabrication, and I challenge you to bring forth a single legitimate study that says anything even remotely to the contrary.

My church accepts gay marriage. You telling me what I'm allowed to believe?

Did i at any point tell you what to believe? - no. i dont really care that your church accepts gay marriage, thats their choice, im orthodox christian and gay marriage is not at all accepted, but feel free to believe what you want.

Alright, so you do think they should allow gay marriage. Glad we have that cleared up.

Ok are you crazy? By not influencing your subjective opinion i support gay marriage? do i also support hitler for eating cookies? You and your church can believe what you want, you have the freedom of opinion but its different from mine

So you are allowed to deny my church the right to marry gay people, because you're against gay marriage, but my church can't tell yours that it has to marry gay people? Either all churches are allowed to marry gay people if it is there prerogative, or you are breaking 1st amendment rights. Why is your church given government approval, but mine is not?

Thats the whole point that this guy doesn't seem to understand. No ones forcing him or his church to marry gay people. If they don't believe in that and don't want to thats 100% fine. the point is that for the churches and people who DO want to marry gays it should be their right to do so. Not allowing that is discrimination, period.

But he's basically taking the stance that because he doesn't believe in it it should be illegal.

 

[Xanadu84]

Only on paper, but no church, since the church has been against homosexuality for 2000 years so that would be blasphemy

Another misconception. Like I said in my post earlier which I will now quote. "Catechism, which is the definition of marriage the church has now (man+woman) was adopted by the church until 1566." So now the church has not been against same sex marriage for 2000 years. Not that the church even invented marriage anyways. The reason this and other laws regarded marriage were passed in the 1500's is because the Church was reforming for the second time and was launching an enormous grab for power.

Beforehand gay marriage existed and the church never objected to it.

You know that was the time of the spanish inquisiton, where you would be killed if you said a trivial thing because of alleged heresy, where homosexuals were among others viewed as heretics and burned to death, so there was no gay marriage there. And you keep forgeting there are 3 christian churches and many sects that derived from it (sect being a teological term)

Um first of all you seemed to have completely missed the point of my post. Your stating that the church has been against gay marriage for 2000 years. Thats false because, like I stated the first Church doctrines banning gay marriage were'nt put into place untill the mid 1500's. And yes there were still gay marriages at that time. The Roman Catholic church doesn't own "marriage" and Europe isn't the only place that exists. In plenty of other places in many different religions gay marriage existed during the time period between 1400-1800 which is the 200 years the spanish inquisition takes place in. And all modern Christian sects evolved from Roman Catholiscm so don't see what your talking about there.

There is absolutely no proof that children adopted by a gay family will be gay themselves, that is such an ignorant and small minded view.

oh please at least 90% turn out gay, its a fact, you grow up in the belief that its how its supposed to be and that you should be like your parents, its how a child's brain evolves by learning from its parents, maybe not in tv shows but thats the reality,perhaps you are the closed minded one. Heres a tip, visit other countries and see their view on religion and homosexuality, not every nation is USA or Scandinavia, im speaking for all people and all churches not just one place.

Can you prove this "fact"?

Maybe you should just think this through, if a child is so influenced by it's parents sexuality how do gay people even exist since they must be the child of straight parents.

Ahh but think about it, some people are from straight parents but they turn out gay but thats like 1% so in your way of thinking, only 1% of people from gay parents will turn out straight, so you in a way agree with what i say

Again stop pulling shit out of your ass. You are just spewing nonsense and have nothing to back it up with. Like I said before if you follow your logic 90% of kids with parents who murder grow up to be murderers. Untill you can find actual FACTS to back up yoru ridiculous claims you should just stop posting because your coming across like a raving idiot.

Ok, they you do the same and find me some facts to support your claim.

im waiting

Patterson, 1992, 1997
Gottman, 1990
Green, 1978
Hoeffer 1981
Bailey and Dawood, 1998
Golombok and Tasker, 1996
Huggins, 1989
Thats a very partial list of references from 1 book

http://books.google.com/books?id=5pZ3yXCXLn0C&pg=PA327&dq=gay+having+gay+children+study#v=onepage&q=gay%20having%20gay%20children%20study&f=false

I couldn't give you a list of all the evidence against you. I don't have enough time remaining in my natural life, and im 25

 

[Cavouku]

Canada doesn't seem to be dying off any faster than usual just because gays are marrying. I'd have to see some bad riots against it here in Canada before I think it's a God awful idea, and I've found too many loopholes to Biblical acts against homosexuals to think they're evil or any such crap.

Let them be married, and if anyone gets upset, set them straight on it all, if anyone gets insanely upset, I expect the Klan to grow in numbers.

 

[Tales of Golden Sun]

It should be legal.
No wait, it IS legal.
But then again, I live in the Netherlands.

 

[Xanadu84]

Canada doesn't seem to be dying off any faster than usual just because gays are marrying. I'd have to see some bad riots against it here in Canada before I think it's a God awful idea, and I've found too many loopholes to Biblical acts against homosexuals to think they're evil or any such crap.

Let them be married, and if anyone gets upset, set them straight on it all, if anyone gets insanely upset, I expect the Klan to grow in numbers.

Speaking of the Bible, I used to take the position of, "You can't take the bible literally" in regards to gay marriage. Then, I read this

http://www.otkenyer.hu/truluck/six_bible_passages.html

Even the Bible is fine with homosexuality. Ironically, Sodom and Gomorrah condemns homophobes.

 

[jboking]

I saw an initiative to recognize all marriages as civil unions a while back, it put this forth in an attempt to allow for homosexual unions. I personally like the idea, here's why. Most of the religious people who oppose gay marriage hate the idea of a religious ceremony opening up to homosexuals. Though this is a horrible line of thought, you can remove it completely when you make marriage something that can be done in private and simply recognize civil unions between any two people.

In a way it preserves the sanctity of marriage for the religious and provides equal rights for homosexuals at the same time. It's a win-win and a good compromise if you ask me.

 

[Jagers1994]

I think if you can't legally choose an person in america to marry then you are not living in the land of the free.

 

[cathou]

There is absolutely no proof that children adopted by a gay family will be gay themselves, that is such an ignorant and small minded view.

oh please at least 90% turn out gay, its a fact, you grow up in the belief that its how its supposed to be and that you should be like your parents, its how a child's brain evolves by learning from its parents, maybe not in tv shows but thats the reality,perhaps you are the closed minded one. Heres a tip, visit other countries and see their view on religion and homosexuality, not every nation is USA or Scandinavia, im speaking for all people and all churches not just one place.

Can you prove this "fact"?

Maybe you should just think this through, if a child is so influenced by it's parents sexuality how do gay people even exist since they must be the child of straight parents.

Ahh but think about it, some people are from straight parents but they turn out gay but thats like 1% so in your way of thinking, only 1% of people from gay parents will turn out straight, so you in a way agree with what i say

I've read this 5 times and it still makes no sense. Why don't you just come out and say that you don't like gay people and don't want them to get married rather than spewing this rubbish.

I dont like gay people but they can get married all they want, just not in my church under god who supports the more natural love between a man and woman, a perfect relationship that produces offsprings to keep the world going, but they can get the legal document all they want

you dont use your "statistics" right. you said that "Ahh but think about it, some people are from straight parents but they turn out gay but thats like 1%" first it's more close to 5 to 10% since the gay population is 5 to 10% of the general population (it's contested, but whatever it doesnt change my point) but out of those 5 to 10% nearly 100% come from straight parents.

Your logic would mean that 90% of gays have gay parents...

Second, the battle for gay marriage never in any way intend to force churches to marry gays. Even i wouldnt not support that. It always had been a battle for religious marriage within churches that accept it on their own free will, or civil marriage, like any atheist couple can have, away from the church...

 

[Cavouku]

Canada doesn't seem to be dying off any faster than usual just because gays are marrying. I'd have to see some bad riots against it here in Canada before I think it's a God awful idea, and I've found too many loopholes to Biblical acts against homosexuals to think they're evil or any such crap.

Let them be married, and if anyone gets upset, set them straight on it all, if anyone gets insanely upset, I expect the Klan to grow in numbers.

Speaking of the Bible, I used to take the position of, "You can't take the bible literally" in regards to gay marriage. Then, I read this

http://www.otkenyer.hu/truluck/six_bible_passages.html

Even the Bible is fine with homosexuality. Ironically, Sodom and Gomorrah condemns homophobes.

Huh, cool.

 

[Wolcik]

I'd go with extreme: death by analy placing mace to whoever applies the application XD

 

[Shady Dealer]

Let People be people it should be legal till someone cna find an actual reason for gay marriage ot be illegal (and religion doesnt count as real reasons because it varies from people to people)

 

[dodo1331]

The whole gay marriage debate is pretty blown out of proportion. The only reason we're fighting over it is because of religion, and while I am a Christian, isn't hating on a certain sect of humans breaking the whole 'love your neighbor as yourself' rule?

I'm pretty tired of my fellow Christians trying to force their opinions on everyone. Shut up and tell it to someone who WANTS to hear it.