Poll: How would a source code release of a console game be?

[thefleeger]

I know source codes being released are big to some gamers. I, myself have spent hours in Source SDK for Team Fortress 2 making, creating, and modifying previous innovations. Valve is a juggernaut, and this definitely helps their popularity and gives the gamer something to do with creative insight... The gamers who don't wish to bother with it won't and the ones who do will.

My question is, take a console game like GTA4 or Halo: Reach, and rather than just shooting people or playing in Forge, come up with your own design inside of what is already presented in the game like the Hammer Editor. I know the adaptation would be strange, but to have access to this sort of program on the PC and transfer it via thumb drive to the HDD of the system, so when you load the game it will play. I realize this puts a strain on local or friend play only like Custom Games in Halo, but...but the big difference here is online there are servers being run by independents...dedicated servers. This sort of thing isn't seen in the console world due in part to the monopolization of the console network. But having the same sort of VAC Secured network inside PSN(Even with recent events) and XBOX Live where people can get access to a program in the Store or Marketplace, respectively for allowing your computer to become a server for your console.

I understand this strains bandwidth, and many other flaws are involved with it, but I know I would play with such tools for hours. I have played with Garry's Mod, and was disappointed. Not because it wasn't a fantastic physics box-because it was...but simply because I wanted complete control over everything. I have played with the SDK code and was intrigued, and delved myself into a lengthy project. Plenty of time was spent just being aggravated because even though I had tutorials in front of me...I was still unfamiliar with the UI of the program. Overcoming such things, making something out of creation, and compiling it, then running it with a friend is amazing. Work out the bugs, run it again, work out more bugs, beta the map, and offer it to see how many heads it turns.

It's this sort of innovation I thoroughly enjoy. Creation is given to the gamer to optimize experience and to show the world a game has limits, but they can be stretched as far as the grid on the screen, and the imagination will take you.

Lastly, If you haven't seen this, you should: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM1Ay85de3U
User creation at it's finest...and most epic.

 

[Hive Mind]

Tacking on a a $5-10 optional code to purchase that unlocks or makes available the source code could be interesting.

Copyright and intellectual property, however, kill this idea very fast. It's just too risky and bothersome to the vast majority of developers, whose only edge in the market is their tech. Why give that out to make a tiny bit extra?

 

[thefleeger]

Tacking on a a $5-10 optional code to purchase that unlocks or makes available the source code could be interesting.

Copyright and intellectual property, however, kill this idea very fast. It's just too risky and bothersome to the vast majority of developers, whose only edge in the market is their tech. Why give that out to make a tiny bit extra?

I understand the developers want to make money more than anything...believe me. There are ways of giving some of these tools out which can benefit a game though, increasing the actual purchase of the game itself, even if the code was free. I didn't buy Half-Life Deathmatch until I knew I could play with the code...which is sad, but true. Of course, I am a huge nerd.

 

[Firetaffer]

I wasn't aware that the Source engine had released it's Source Code :O.

And I would be support of console games releasing their source code, it would help the modding community.

 

[Hive Mind]

Tacking on a a $5-10 optional code to purchase that unlocks or makes available the source code could be interesting.

Copyright and intellectual property, however, kill this idea very fast. It's just too risky and bothersome to the vast majority of developers, whose only edge in the market is their tech. Why give that out to make a tiny bit extra?

I understand the developers want to make money more than anything...believe me. There are ways of giving some of these tools out which can benefit a game though, increasing the actual purchase of the game itself, even if the code was free. I didn't buy Half-Life Deathmatch until I knew I could play with the code...which is sad, but true. Of course, I am a huge nerd.

I'm not against people making available tools that can prolong the life of their products or make them more enjoyable for some. But one must understand, aside from a very select few developers, giving away in-depth tools beyond a map creator, especially anything attaining to the game's engine and inner workings, is just not something worth the effort financially. Aside from making it easier for people to steal ideas and coding, it can damage your ability to sell map packs.

Again, I think being able to play with a game in the way you describe would be lots of fun. But this is an age where a lot of people don't even pay fir the damn games they enjoy (pirates). No developer beyond indie groups and some very rare others (Valve) want anything to do with this kind of thing.

 

[Snork Maiden]

I wasn't aware that the Source engine had released it's Source Code :O.

And I would be support of console games releasing their source code, it would help the modding community.

Don't think they've released the whole Source, but then I'd imagine their are very few situations where the source in it's entirety gets released. Of course, this doesn't mean the OP idea has no merit - releasing SDKs (which isn't the full game/engine source, just part of it) for console games that can be thumbed over sounds super cool.

But having the same sort of VAC Secured network inside PSN(Even with recent events) and XBOX Live where people can get access to a program in the Store or Marketplace, respectively for allowing your computer to become a server for your console.

This would definitely be the sticking point (especially for Live), but it'd be sweet if MS or Sony released software that let you run your PC as a server for PS3s or Xboxes (or even run your console as a server, but aren't sure enough about how possible that is to say it's a Definite Good Idea. I don't see why not, though) - if they charged for the software either up front or as part of a monthly fee I could only see them gaining from this. Of course, I don't exactly understand what they would lose by allowing private servers, but still.

 

[Anarchemitis]

Halo uses the Unreal Engine, which has an available Engine Source Developer's Kit. However many game companies such as Rockstar and EA use in-house game engines that they keep proprietary in order to maintain company secrets for certain things.

Tacking on a a $5-10 optional code to purchase that unlocks or makes available the source code could be interesting.

It would also be unprecedentedly cheap for some game engines. While Valve's Source Engine was developed in order to be accessed by customers from the get-go, many many engines out there exist only for Developers and companies, and therefore usage and purchasing of copies of the engines can cost large amounts of money. Programs like Engines and modeling/animation software are the breadwinners of some companies that all they do is develop new software like that, which is why Autodesk Maya costs $4000 new.

 

[thefleeger]

I wasn't aware that the Source engine had released it's Source Code :O.

And I would be support of console games releasing their source code, it would help the modding community.

Yes. Look into it before you delve into it. There is some serious work in understanding the UI before you can even just go into it... Not discouraging you, but http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Main_Page visit that to peruse it, then if you want it get it. Happy creations!

Tacking on a a $5-10 optional code to purchase that unlocks or makes available the source code could be interesting.

Copyright and intellectual property, however, kill this idea very fast. It's just too risky and bothersome to the vast majority of developers, whose only edge in the market is their tech. Why give that out to make a tiny bit extra?

I understand the developers want to make money more than anything...believe me. There are ways of giving some of these tools out which can benefit a game though, increasing the actual purchase of the game itself, even if the code was free. I didn't buy Half-Life Deathmatch until I knew I could play with the code...which is sad, but true. Of course, I am a huge nerd.

I'm not against people making available tools that can prolong the life of their products or make them more enjoyable for some. But one must understand, aside from a very select few developers, giving away in-depth tools beyond a map creator, especially anything attaining to the game's engine and inner workings, is just not something worth the effort financially. Aside from making it easier for people to steal ideas and coding, it can damage your ability to sell map packs.

Again, I think being able to play with a game in the way you describe would be lots of fun. But this is an age where a lot of people don't even pay fir the damn games they enjoy (pirates). No developer beyond indie groups and some very rare others (Valve) want anything to do with this kind of thing.

I understand that as well. I'm not saying it is completely feasible. I am just proposing the possibilities of such an option. It's sad we can't have the source to some of these games, but it is fun to think about all the possibilities gamers would have, and even those in school to be a designer. A true hands on experience, or tools for fun...either way it would bring an innovating change in the industry. I state again, those who don't care won't, and those who do would invest time into it.

 

[thefleeger]

I wasn't aware that the Source engine had released it's Source Code :O.

And I would be support of console games releasing their source code, it would help the modding community.

Don't think they've released the whole Source, but then I'd imagine their are very few situations where the source in it's entirety gets released. Of course, this doesn't mean the OP idea has no merit - releasing SDKs (which isn't the full game/engine source, just part of it) for console games that can be thumbed over sounds super cool.

But having the same sort of VAC Secured network inside PSN(Even with recent events) and XBOX Live where people can get access to a program in the Store or Marketplace, respectively for allowing your computer to become a server for your console.

This would definitely be the sticking point (especially for Live), but it'd be sweet if MS or Sony released software that let you run your PC as a server for PS3s or Xboxes (or even run your console as a server, but aren't sure enough about how possible that is to say it's a Definite Good Idea. I don't see why not, though) - if they charged for the software either up front or as part of a monthly fee I could only see them gaining from this. Of course, I don't exactly understand what they would lose by allowing private servers, but still.

The problem with putting the server on the HDD, is the system's ability to process the server and the game with the bandwidth, simultaneously. It's hard enough for some to run a Minecraft Server on their computer, and running the game simultaneously. That was the only reason I had suggested the server being PC based. If the console was capable, then sure, but I don't know...

 

[Twilight_guy]

Actually I think if you were in SDK then you were mucking with scripting rather than source code. It's a subtle difference but one that is essential. Engine programming and game scripting are different things. As for your ideas. Why not just set up your own server? Depending on your engine and access to source code you can mod the damn thing to run on your own server buy a bit of server space and run your own games. I know your not going to get Halo's engine to mod unless you go cracking secure files or decompile it but Unreal 3 is used for a number of major games including console games and is free to use. In fact it should be easy to design it for the X-box. Not sure how easy it is to compile it for the X-box, but I'm sure there is a way. Its really just a mater of finding a good engine that can compile for a console and programming that. PC and console programming aren't that different.

 

[Hive Mind]

I wasn't aware that the Source engine had released it's Source Code :O.

And I would be support of console games releasing their source code, it would help the modding community.

Yes. Look into it before you delve into it. There is some serious work in understanding the UI before you can even just go into it... Not discouraging you, but http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Main_Page visit that to peruse it, then if you want it get it. Happy creations!

Tacking on a a $5-10 optional code to purchase that unlocks or makes available the source code could be interesting.

Copyright and intellectual property, however, kill this idea very fast. It's just too risky and bothersome to the vast majority of developers, whose only edge in the market is their tech. Why give that out to make a tiny bit extra?

I understand the developers want to make money more than anything...believe me. There are ways of giving some of these tools out which can benefit a game though, increasing the actual purchase of the game itself, even if the code was free. I didn't buy Half-Life Deathmatch until I knew I could play with the code...which is sad, but true. Of course, I am a huge nerd.

I'm not against people making available tools that can prolong the life of their products or make them more enjoyable for some. But one must understand, aside from a very select few developers, giving away in-depth tools beyond a map creator, especially anything attaining to the game's engine and inner workings, is just not something worth the effort financially. Aside from making it easier for people to steal ideas and coding, it can damage your ability to sell map packs.

Again, I think being able to play with a game in the way you describe would be lots of fun. But this is an age where a lot of people don't even pay fir the damn games they enjoy (pirates). No developer beyond indie groups and some very rare others (Valve) want anything to do with this kind of thing.

I understand that as well. I'm not saying it is completely feasible. I am just proposing the possibilities of such an option. It's sad we can't have the source to some of these games, but it is fun to think about all the possibilities gamers would have, and even those in school to be a designer. A true hands on experience, or tools for fun...either way it would bring an innovating change in the industry. I state again, those who don't care won't, and those who do would invest time into it.

Hell, maybe if people stop stealing games and crying every time DLC is released, lol.

Keep the dream alive.

 

[TilMorrow]

Oh I remember seeing the vid in that link. All I could think was how sneaky and clever the map makers must have been to put that in there.

I'd say only if we were able to edit it on the computer then it would probably be received well.