Poll: Independent of the original trilogy. Are the second and third Star Wars movies bad films?

[Sniper Team 4]

That's...it? You're not going to offer your take on it? Um...okay...


If this wasn't independent of the original trilogy, then the answer is "Oh, by the almighty Force, yes!" but since I apparently can't draw on them, then the answer is just a plain "Yes."

Episode II is bad in its own way. The acting and dialogue, and complete lack of chemistry between Portman and Christensen, just makes their scenes together cringe-worthy. It feels so wooden, so forced, that I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who honestly believes it was good.


Now, I loathe Episode III. To me, it is the worst Star Wars film out of all of them. I know I'm in the minority, but there it is. I can't get into too many reasons, seeing as I'm not allowed to draw on the lore and such, so I will just have to do what I can.

Anakin's fall--There is no build up to it really. No real struggle--and if there is, it is destroyed by Christensen's horrible acting. One moment he's in tears over what he's done, and then, in the span of a few minutes, he goes, "Okay, I'm ready to go kill freaking five year olds now." He does not come across as a tragic fall figure as he was supposed to be. He comes across as a whiny brat. And the fact that he honestly believes that the Jedi tried to assassinate the Chancellor, when he was there and saw what REALLY happened, just makes him more of a brat in my eyes.

Grevious--what is his point? Without the lore, he is just there to take up space. And for a feared Jedi killer (at least we're assuming he is, since he has so many lightsabers and he says he collects them), he gets stomped by ONE Jedi. One. He doesn't even really push Kenobi to his limit until AFTER he's lost all his lightsabers. Poorly executed villain. Dooku would have been better, because at least he was around in the second movie.

Jedi--There are more dead Jedi in the Temple than dead Clone Troopers. That...that is just wrong on so many levels. No, don't tell me that they were all the padawans or weaker ones. A twelve year old kid took out about seven Clones in front of Bail before they finally managed to kill him.
And don't even get me started on how the Council members went down, or the team that went after the Emperor.

Yoda--why did Yoda stop fighting? No, seriously, why? Because he fell? Okay, get back up there. We know you can do it. You have the Force. If the Emperor had kicked him out a window, or Clones had shown up as backup, then okay, book it, but that didn't happen. And since we can't draw on the originals, it looks like he just gives up. "Too old for this, I am."

Chemistry between Portman and Christensen when they have their little fight. The fact that Padme is supposed to look like she is having the life choked out of her, but it just looks like she's holding her throat for a high school play. It just ruins the moment which is supposed to show how far Anakin has fallen.

And that lightsaber fight at the end was too long. It was too flashy, and it eventually started to feel like, "Okay, let's see what other tricks we can do." And it ends with Obi, the hero of the story, leaving his friend in an agonizing state of being. Instead of mercy killing him, he leaves him there. He had no idea anyone was going to find Anakin. For all he knew, Anakin was going to die by that river of lava in searing pain. That is not something Obi would do, and it smacks in the face of his character.


I could go on, but it would involve the original trilogy and the lore, instead of what was just in the movies. So yes, I think they're both bad movies.

 

[tippy2k2]

snip

...that was way more work than I was going to put into it since this thread is almost certainly going to be locked for low content but I shall take advantage and say THIS!!!

THIS RIGHT THERE!

What Sniper Team 4 said!

All of that! Like....every single bit.

See Post #2

OT: The reason the movies fail is that they fail at the most basic premise of why they exist; to show how Anakin Skywalker become Darth Vader. It's like they made 2 movies and then realized "Oh shit! He's supposed to turn into Vader, isn't he? What's the most evil thing someone can do? Murder children? Eh...that'll work, make him do that. He needs a good reason to turn to child murder eh? Got it, he has a bad dream! Alright, someone pass me the coke and get the hooker in here so I can snort it off her ass cause we got ourselves a movie!!!!"

 

[wolfy098]

That's...it? You're not going to offer your take on it? Um...okay...

I only want to see someone try to defend them.

Also I don't post first in polls I make, just a personal habit.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Yes.

I'll go one further...they are exceptionally bad films.

Actually I'll top even that. They are among the worst films made in the modern era, displaying almost hysterical levels of directorial and authorial incompetence. On a superficial level they might function as spectacle movies for extremely small children or babies, but Sith even fucks that up by being loud and violent. I don't know who these movies were for.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

When it comes right down to it, Attack of the Clones was god awful and Revenge of the Sith was mediocre if you can ignore the dialogue and plot.

For Attack of the Clones the first major issue was the choice of Hayden Christensen as Anikin Skywalker, then comes the issue of the terrible wooden dialogue. Hayden Christensen had absolutely no chemistry with Natalie Portman whatsoever, making their romance even more uncomfortable than the "romance" of the Twilight saga. The dialogue again was just horrifyingly bad, very wooden, very forced, and often just stupid. Then there's the action. All of the action is disjointed, but worst of all is the climactic fight at the end, which looks like a bunch of extras swinging willynilly at things that don't exist. It all seems like an over funded fan project more than a proper Star Wars film. Hell most of the fan projects are better.

Then we get Revenge of the Sith which has most of the problems of the previous movie, but handles the plot even worse. The effects are better, the battles look better, but there is so much reliance on CGI, which looks so artificial, that the battles feel unsatisfying. Then we get back to the plot, none of it makes a damn bit of sense. Anikin executing Dooku with no fathomable reason, Kenobi's super random battle with Grievous ending as cheesy as possible, and Order 66 a plot device that any sane clone would have defied on principal and loyalty... Then you've got how badly the clones stomp the Jedi, after we watch them be untouchable against precision shot battle droids. Then Anikin's fall, good god was it schizophrenic. Anikin was basically an over emotional slightly unfaithful student, if he could be accused of anything, it would be caring too much about others. In contrast to his attitude he flat murders Dooku in cold blood, which could be accounted for as a heat of the moment thing. But then he basically flips psycho in the later part of the movie and murders children. None of it made the slightest bit of sense. It's all over the place in narrative and action, with none of it coherently forming a movie, let alone even a half way mediocre one. Because of the plot fumble, paired with just how abjectly bad Lucas is as a filmmaker when left to his own devices... It's probably the worst of the prequels. At least there was fun in The Phantom Menace, at least Attack of the Clones felt like it was building up to something, but Revenge of the Sith was just a depressing trek to a predetermined end with a terrible schizophrenic plot, and it ruined all of the things it touched.

 

[Dizchu]

The only good thing about the prequel trilogy is the art direction, and even then it's at odds with the established designs seen in the original trilogy (which is supposed to take place later???)

While the worst thing about the prequels is how they cheapen the original films, even on their own they're god-awful. They're no better than films like The Chronicles of Riddick or Jupiter Ascending. The pacing's terrible, the plot is terrible, the characterisation is terrible, the lore is terrible, the direction is terrible, the abundance of CGI is inexcusable... They came out around the same time as The Lord of the Rings, a trilogy that was monumental and exceptionally well planned, designed, paced, acted, directed... I mean they had their flaws yes, but for a trilogy of three-hour films what they accomplished was legendary. The Star Wars prequels, even at the time were just out-shined by a lot of far better big-budget fare.

And you know what? These days I might go as far to say that The Phantom Menace was the best of the three, because it didn't succumb to the same levels of tedium and excess as the other two.

I hate them.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

They're pretty bad (I would include episode one as well). Rest assured, somebody will defend them for you though.

 

[springheeljack]

Well I can only speak on the Attack of the Clones which I only saw once when I was a kid and I remember kind of liking it. Some of the fight scenes were really cool like the one between Jango Fet and Obi. Count Dooku was pretty rad because Christopher Lee was playing him. The fight between Christopher Lee and Yoda was also pretty cool. That battle royal scene was pretty cool as well. The monsters were especially neat. Jar Jar Binks was barely in it which was a good thing. I didn't like the romance scenes because at that age I wasn't that interested in girls though I was fascinated when Natalie Portman had her clothes ripped. Plus the sight of that huge Clone army filled my mind with fantasies of grandeur and the desire to lay waste the world with an army of those proportions.

I never watched the third one because I heard it was bad

 

[Antari]

I answered No. Because, honestly I've seen worse follow on movies in a trilogy. The American Werewolf in (Insert Famous City Here) set of movies is a great example.

 

[DefunctTheory]

I answered No. Because, honestly I've seen worse follow on movies in a trilogy. The American Werewolf in (Insert Famous City Here) set of movies is a great example.

I'm pretty sure there are only two 'American Werewolf' movies, London and Paris.

That being said, if you have to reach down to American Werewolf in Paris to find a bar the Star Wars films can get over, well... I can't fathom why you would have voted no. That's like saying coughing up yellow phlegm is healthy because it's better then red phlegm. With lung chunks in it.

To OP, yes, they are terrible movies on their own, for reasons others have elaborated on. Episodes 1, 2, and 3 are train wrecks.

 

[Antari]

I answered No. Because, honestly I've seen worse follow on movies in a trilogy. The American Werewolf in (Insert Famous City Here) set of movies is a great example.

I'm pretty sure there are only two 'American Werewolf' movies, London and Paris.

That being said, if you have to reach down to American Werewolf in Paris to find a bar the Star Wars films can get over, well... I can't fathom why you would have voted no. That's like saying coughing up yellow phlegm is healthy because it's better then red phlegm. With lung chunks in it.

To OP, yes, they are terrible movies on their own, for reasons others have elaborated on. Episodes 1, 2, and 3 are train wrecks.

Unfortunately they also did New York ... that's the last time I checked, I don't know if they continued on with them. I'd have to agree with your analysis of the rest.

 

[Foolery]

The only decent thing I can think of, that came from the prequel trilogy is the younger Obi-wan Kenobi as portrayed by Ewan McGregor. He put a lot into that performance, in getting Alec Guinness' mannerisms down.

 

[DefunctTheory]

I answered No. Because, honestly I've seen worse follow on movies in a trilogy. The American Werewolf in (Insert Famous City Here) set of movies is a great example.

I'm pretty sure there are only two 'American Werewolf' movies, London and Paris.

That being said, if you have to reach down to American Werewolf in Paris to find a bar the Star Wars films can get over, well... I can't fathom why you would have voted no. That's like saying coughing up yellow phlegm is healthy because it's better then red phlegm. With lung chunks in it.

To OP, yes, they are terrible movies on their own, for reasons others have elaborated on. Episodes 1, 2, and 3 are train wrecks.

Unfortunately they also did New York ... that's the last time I checked, I don't know if they continued on with them. I'd have to agree with your analysis of the rest.

They did not do 'An American Werewolf' movie for New York, I'm afraid. Perhaps you're thinking of an episode of Ugly Americans? 'An American Werewolf in America' maybe?

EDIT:

The only decent thing I can think of, that came from the prequel trilogy is the younger Obi-wan Kenobi as portrayed by Ewan McGregor. He put a lot into that performance, in getting Alec Guinness' mannerisms down.

I agree with this guy. McGregor is pretty much the only saving grace of the newer trilogy.

 

[sky14kemea]

Sorry guys, I know a few of you actually put effort into your posts. I'm gonna leave the thread open because of that. Also....

Spoiler

 

[Antari]

I answered No. Because, honestly I've seen worse follow on movies in a trilogy. The American Werewolf in (Insert Famous City Here) set of movies is a great example.

I'm pretty sure there are only two 'American Werewolf' movies, London and Paris.

That being said, if you have to reach down to American Werewolf in Paris to find a bar the Star Wars films can get over, well... I can't fathom why you would have voted no. That's like saying coughing up yellow phlegm is healthy because it's better then red phlegm. With lung chunks in it.

To OP, yes, they are terrible movies on their own, for reasons others have elaborated on. Episodes 1, 2, and 3 are train wrecks.

Unfortunately they also did New York ... that's the last time I checked, I don't know if they continued on with them. I'd have to agree with your analysis of the rest.

They did not do 'An American Werewolf' movie for New York, I'm afraid. Perhaps you're thinking of an episode of Ugly Americans? 'An American Werewolf in America' maybe?

EDIT:

The only decent thing I can think of, that came from the prequel trilogy is the younger Obi-wan Kenobi as portrayed by Ewan McGregor. He put a lot into that performance, in getting Alec Guinness' mannerisms down.

I agree with this guy. McGregor is pretty much the only saving grace of the newer trilogy.

I will have to track down what the hell it was then. If anything it was memorable for being about the worst movie I had ever watched. Edit : It appears the movie I'm remembering is Night Shadow. I'd have to rewatch it to completely confirm. I could have sworn it was American Werewolf but I guess not. And since I can't currently think of any trilogies that are worse, then I guess I'd have to change my answer to yes then.

 

[RJ 17]

Wow...you'd think someone who's been around since 2009 would know better than to have an OP that just say "have at it."

OT: While I don't hate the prequels as much as most people do, I do have to agree that in the end: yeah, they're all pretty bad.

Sniper Team 4 did a pretty good job at summing things up, so I'll keep my post brief.

The jedi act like frickin' morons way too often. These are supposed to be the wisest people in the galaxy, are they not? With the midichlorians Force giving them deep foresight into events transpiring around them. How hard is it to sniff out a Sith Lord? I thought force users could rather easily sense the presence of other force users...for that matter, Yoda says he can sense much fear/anger/hatred/etc in Anikan...basically he's saying "I can sense the Dark Side within you." Soooo how hard is it to sense the dark side within the Emperor?

And just for a bit of silliness:

 

[Asita]

Yeah, they're still bad. I honestly think that Lucas simply didn't know how to write a prequel. Ideally, the parts of a prequel should set off alarm bells for people familiar with the original material but slip under the radar of those with less familiarity. Take X-Men: First Class as a case in point. Those who saw X-men 2 felt a pit rise in their stomach when Xavier commented about how nice it was that William Stryker was thinking about his son Jason, while those outside the loop probably agreed with Xavier. Basically those in the know knew exactly what it meant but it didn't spoil anything for new viewers. That is how you do prequels. You set the stage for the latter installments but you don't enact them.

Lucas didn't do that. He explicitly revealed the complete fall of the Jedi, he revealed that the weird little creature Luke met in Empire Strikes Back was Yoda, he reveals Vader's identity, reveals Luke and Leia's familial ties, shows the half completed Death Star...On a more immediate level, the problem is perhaps best represented by the simple fact that Lucas allegedly expected us to be surprised by Dooku's allegiance to the Sith despite him telegraphing it in the script from the character's first mention. I'm not exaggerating. His first mention in the script is Padme suggesting that he was behind the attempt on her life. That's the core of the problem, really. Lucas does not know how do subtle, and the dialogue and plot progression suffered from that as much as the intended foreshadowing did.

For Attack of the Clones the first major issue was the choice of Hayden Christensen as Anikin Skywalker, then comes the issue of the terrible wooden dialogue. Hayden Christensen had absolutely no chemistry with Natalie Portman whatsoever, making their romance even more uncomfortable than the "romance" of the Twilight saga. The dialogue again was just horrifyingly bad, very wooden, very forced, and often just stupid. Then there's the action. All of the action is disjointed, but worst of all is the climactic fight at the end, which looks like a bunch of extras swinging willynilly at things that don't exist. It all seems like an over funded fan project more than a proper Star Wars film. Hell most of the fan projects are better.

Ordinarily I'd be in total agreement on the point about Christensen, but I do have to admit that Doug Walker gave a good defense of it in his list of good things from the Prequel Trilogy.[footnote]If anyone wants to jump to it, it's #6, at around 7:15 in the video[/footnote]. It's a bad and bland performance on the whole, but that's true for most of the actors in these films - even Samuel L. Jackson and Christopher Lee give wooden performances[footnote]Though Ewan McGregor and Ian McDiarmid largely did wonderful with theirs[/footnote] - and consequentially the results seem better attributed to bad direction and a bad script than the actor's actual ability.

 

[Coruptin]

Anakin is up there with Bane for movie character I quote the most, so I guess not?
Come on, who doesn't love throwing in a couple I HATE YOUs or I killed thems during casual conversation every once in a while?

 

[DrownedAmmet]

The opening chase scene in episode II and the "I don't want to sell you death sticks" parts were pretty cool...

 

[Kingjackl]

The second one is mostly bad, with only a couple good bits like the Yoda fight. I'd say the third one is a legit decent film though. I've know people to break down in tears watching Order 66.