Poll: Is it really that absurd to blame conservative wailing for the Arizona shooting?

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GonzoGamer

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Apr 9, 2008
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At first I thought: ?It?s just as stupid as blaming video games for Columbine.?
However, the big difference is that while even the Columbine kids knew the games weren?t real Fox News and conservative politicians try to convince regular people to believe all sorts of absurd (conspiracy) theories; many of which are just outright lies. They manage to get regular people as outraged as they act and angry people who don?t have a camera in front of them might lash out in crazy ways. I don?t think the right wing is completely to blame but Fox News and Sarah Palin should take some of the heat instead of getting so defensive.

These are the people that are able to convince normal people that they have a say as to what a woman decides is going to be in her uterus. Some of them have managed to convince heterosexuals that homosexuality is a choice and if we allow them to marry, it will ruin heterosexual marriage. They?ve managed to convince a lot of people that every single other news outlet is run by some secret society of liberal Jews.

It would be one thing if they did it all in the spirit of the onion and all their overblown outrage was obviously fake. But they try to make it real and worst of all they try to instill this overblown sense of outrage into the people who (for some reason) take them seriously.

I respect what a lot of the what central & left leaning pundits have been saying in the interest of peace and that now is not the time to point fingers and that we can?t blame people who have crazy followers. I?m just looking forward to seeing what Bill Mahr has to say about the Arizona shooting because I know he wont have a problem pointing the finger directly at Sarah Palin and saying ?look at where your rhetoric is taking us.?

It?s easy to just be dismissive and say, they guy was just crazy but I never bought that. Now, unless they suffer from serious dementia or drug addiction, people usually only lash out in ways like we saw when they feel threatened in their real life. The Columbine kids weren?t driven over the edge by shooter games or by bad wiring in their brains, they had problems with people in their real life, people (as they were convinced) who ruined their lives and they wanted to ruin them right back. Crazy? Yes, definitely, but they felt threatened by bullies and people who were able to convince them they were real threats.

Now I have nothing against real conservative values: smaller government, lower taxes, and valuing our resources. I was brought up on many of these values. However, Fox News and frankly all of the conservative politicians don?t follow these values anymore, they just want to nay-say anything from the left (even the things that actually make sense), be incredibly bigoted, and give all the best tax breaks to already wealthy corporations and individuals. Worst of all they like to get people to overreact about all sorts of little things, many of which, shouldn?t have anything to do with government; especially conservative government. I just can?t say I?m all that surprised something like this happened.
 

Yvl9921

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Apr 4, 2009
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I saw this coming years ago. It was plain as day as soon as Palin started talking about "death panels." And they pressed on, and now people are dead because of it. There are a fair number of psychopaths out there regardless of what anyone says, yes, but pandering to them and working them up has very clear consequences.
 

loc978

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Sep 18, 2010
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Sorry, I'm going with the "he was just crazy" option. Regardless of his political leanings or reasons, he had obviously lost all sense of self-preservation. I classify that as crazy. Lashing out because you "feel threatened" is nothing more than a lack of self-control... another symptom of the crazies.
 

Crazy_Dude

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Nov 3, 2010
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Only thing to blame is America itself for having such easy Gun laws.

Crazy persons are 1 thing but giving them acces to guns is just insane and stuff like this is bound to happen. (And already has in the past)
 

blalien

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Jul 3, 2009
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We still don't know exactly what motivated the shooter, besides being crazy and generally hating everybody, so I'm not going to blame Palin for the shooting. But the violent rhetoric needs to stop for its own sake. I don't think the Republicans are actually going to stop, but maybe they'll get called out on it more when they do.
 

rsacks

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Nov 19, 2009
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The guy was clearly mentally unstable, looking at the forum posts like Canid117 said is a good way to see this, or looking at guy's youtube channel, or listening to what former classmates from his college said about him. The guy was a time bomb and chose this particular moment to go off.

That said, does the "discourse" (if you can call it that) that flies back and forth help? Definitely not. Civility has a place in politics for a reason, and it's so that people don't go overboard. But when you think about it, back in the 1800's this kind of rhetoric was used as well, just look at the congressional record from back then and you can see Congressmen and other government officials having duals with each other (Aaron Burr, Alexander Hamilton and Andrew Jackson) so is that much different? You can say yes because the dual is something you agree to, but the kind of vitriol that to instigate a dual is pretty bad indeed, look at what was said about Andrew Jackson's wife when he was running for office, it's pretty horrific.

Back on topic; The guy was a loon, I'm not sure if I'd say he's crazy, but he did have some interesting ways of looking at the world. With all the mean words and charged emotions that have been flying around that can't have helped him make rational decisions but to blame his actions on the words of others is a bit too far in my opinion.
 

Valkyrie101

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May 17, 2010
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I think it ought to be pointed out that this guy owed allegiance to neither the left nor the right. He listed his favourite books as Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto, which puts him squarely in the category of "non-aligned crazy".
 

badgersprite

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Sep 22, 2009
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It shouldn't be blamed for this. No. Not anymore than video games and movies should be blamed for other incidents. And I say this as a hugely left-wing person.

Let me be clear; this was a mentally unstable individual who was paranoid and delusional about the government. He would have felt this way regardless of what rhetoric he listened to. People like him and the Unabomber do have a tendency to latch on to very violent, right wing, frequently Nazi rhetoric, yes, but that isn't causing them to do what they're doing. What's causing them to do things like this is the fact that they are incapable of separating fantasy and delusions from reality. Like, the Columbine shooters were inspired by Natural Born Killers, I think. Does that mean the movie was too violent and should be banned for how it portrayed itself? No. Same goes for this right-wing stuff. I may not like it, and I may have issues with how it presents itself, but I can't blame it for what a mentally ill man does.

Now, what I do blame inflammatory conservative wailing for is people acting like jerks on the internet and derailing every Youtube video into some stupid argument about Obama or healthcare. But not violence.
 

JetFool

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Sep 20, 2009
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Personally, I blame conservative whaling. Dude just really loves him some aquatic mammals.
 

Dags90

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Oct 27, 2009
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I think it's hypocritical for people like Palin to say that "Free and open discourse is required by and helps foster American democracy" and then turn around and say "but don't you dare try and insinuate I had something to do with this shooting, free and open discourse be damned! /horribly misplaced blood libel reference"
JetFool said:
Personally, I blame conservative whaling. Dude just really loves him some aquatic mammals.
Wait, wouldn't conservative whaling practices have been better? I'm so confused.
 

Blitzwarp

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Jan 11, 2011
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Crazy_Dude said:
Only thing to blame is America itself for having such easy Gun laws.

Crazy persons are 1 thing but giving them acces to guns is just insane and stuff like this is bound to happen. (And already has in the past)
I agree. Under US law anybody sensible enough to answer "Are you crazy?" with "No" can buy a metal device capable of killing a lot of innocent people at once, and then somehow the media are surprised when things like Columbine and the Arizona shootings happen. It's sad for everybody involved and I'm not suggesting I'm not sympathetic, but blaming anything other than an insane "any idiot can own a gun" law is ludicrous.

(Also in before SECOND AMENDMENT/I WANT TO OWN A GUN SO I DON'T GET SHOT/IT'S MY RIGHT/etc.)
 

Lord Beautiful

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Aug 13, 2008
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It wasn't the Tea Party's fault. It wasn't the Republicans' fault. It wasn't Palin's fault. It wasn't Fox News' fault. It wasn't the fault of anyone on the left, either. This guy was just fucking nuts. This was a tragic event, and seeing how a number of people are using this as a means of blindly bashing the right wing is goddamn abominable.
 

Infinatex

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May 19, 2009
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The dude was a fucking nut job! That's all. I mean look at him:



Fuck me, and no one picked up on this dude beforehand? That's a face that nightmares are made of.
 

Blitzwarp

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Jan 11, 2011
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Swollen Goat said:
Blitzwarp said:
Crazy_Dude said:
Only thing to blame is America itself for having such easy Gun laws.

Crazy persons are 1 thing but giving them acces to guns is just insane and stuff like this is bound to happen. (And already has in the past)
I agree. Under US law anybody sensible enough to answer "Are you crazy?" with "No" can buy a metal device capable of killing a lot of innocent people at once, and then somehow the media are surprised when things like Columbine and the Arizona shootings happen. It's sad for everybody involved and I'm not suggesting I'm not sympathetic, but blaming anything other than an insane "any idiot can own a gun" law is ludicrous.

(Also in before SECOND AMENDMENT/I WANT TO OWN A GUN SO I DON'T GET SHOT/IT'S MY RIGHT/etc.)
Yes, that's exactly how getting a gun in the US works. Walk in, say you're not crazy, and they hand you an AK-47. Thank god for informed opinions.
I'm basing this off the first-hand experience of two of my American friends, and a documentary we watched in Sociology based on American gun ownership. You're right, my bad, totally uninformed. (Arguably not as informed as an American citizen, but that doesn't mean I'm completely 100% stupid, either.)
 

Blitzwarp

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Jan 11, 2011
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Swollen Goat said:
Blitzwarp said:
I'm basing this off the first-hand experience of two of my American friends, and a documentary we watched in Sociology based on American gun ownership. You're right, my bad, totally uninformed. (Arguably not as informed as an American citizen, but that doesn't mean I'm completely 100% stupid, either.)
Well, it's kind of hard to tell from:
Blitzwarp said:
blaming anything other than an insane "any idiot can own a gun" law is ludicrous.
You realize that sounds just as foolish as the "SECOND AMENDMENT/I WANT TO OWN A GUN SO I DON'T GET SHOT/IT'S MY RIGHT/etc" crowd you mock, right?
Eh. That's my personal opinion against gun ownership bleeding through, I'm afraid, and I apologise if it caused offence. (I've been in gun-ownership arguments before and I normally just hit a wall of 'the Second Amendment says I can so I will'. Guess I'm not used to people acting in a mature way in return). Anyway, opinions aren't always based on solid facts, hence the idiocy of my comments. :/ I just feel very strongly that guns shouldn't be handed out to a mass populace for precisely these eventualities, and I get a little het up about the media blaming everything other than the fact that these people were given almost free access to high-tech murder weapons.

/rant
 

PTSpyder

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Aug 9, 2008
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No, it?s completely acceptable to lie about a mad man?s motivations and blame your political opponents for their actions, as long as your party of choice benefits in the end! Taking advantage of the victims suffering? Not at all - they are simply martyrs for the cause! They should be so lucky as to give their lives so I can lie about why it happened in the first place to benefit my personal political beliefs!

On another note - any of you who voted for option #1 or #7 and ACTUALLY meant it, not in a sarcastic way, you are fucking retards. You are the ignorant masses the political elite manipulate to grow their power. Try reading the constitution and taking some classes on economics, it could only do you some good.