Poll: Is pirating old games morally permissable?
- Thread starter DaMan1500
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You need a "Maybe, depending on..." option for the poll.
I don't believe in game piracy. But if a title has hit the "abandonware" stage where even the development houses and producers of the IP no longer support it or even attempt to assert any legal rights over it, then I think it is morally permissable, should you wish to have a certain old game that you really liked, to acquire it in whatever manner is available.
My favorite old game of example is Pax Imperia: Eminent Domain...which is in total abandon ware status, but is probably one of my all time favorite space civilization simulators. I do not feel, as after all I did buy the game on a CD-ROM way back in the day and still have it, just the disk is so unusable I can't install from it, that acquiring a copy of this game is morally dubious or questionable.
Now lets take another old game I never played like, I dunno, uh..cripes theres not a lot of old games I didn't play, but lets just say I never bought it, never owned a physical disk or set of floppy disks for it, then I feel I would not have a moral right to reacquire that title, even if its "old".
I don't believe in game piracy. But if a title has hit the "abandonware" stage where even the development houses and producers of the IP no longer support it or even attempt to assert any legal rights over it, then I think it is morally permissable, should you wish to have a certain old game that you really liked, to acquire it in whatever manner is available.
My favorite old game of example is Pax Imperia: Eminent Domain...which is in total abandon ware status, but is probably one of my all time favorite space civilization simulators. I do not feel, as after all I did buy the game on a CD-ROM way back in the day and still have it, just the disk is so unusable I can't install from it, that acquiring a copy of this game is morally dubious or questionable.
Now lets take another old game I never played like, I dunno, uh..cripes theres not a lot of old games I didn't play, but lets just say I never bought it, never owned a physical disk or set of floppy disks for it, then I feel I would not have a moral right to reacquire that title, even if its "old".
I think it's fine. It's like something extra credits said about how pirating a game you cannot buy is okay (if anyone knows the actual quote be my guest to post it.
The majority of the Snes library is available on the WII store. Considering Nintendo makes and publishes a lot of its own games, if not still finances those same developers.
Further more, in most cases, the people who actually make the game get a paycheck, and nothing else. Royalties, if any, go to the people on top of the developing company, people who don't generally have much of a hand in making the game. The code monkeys at the bottom don't see any royalty checks. In most cases the company holders, be it publishers or the owning agents of the Development company, see anything in the way of royalties. How that gets dispersed is up to the people up top.
You can legally purchase a digital copy of most games.
Now, that is out of the way, I am further going to assume you mean games that appear no where except on rom sites. In other words not in stores or on the respective copyright holders online store. Whether or not is honestly up to you.
Honestly, people scream about morals all the time. However the fact is they do not enter into this. In most cases, it's peoples sense of entitlement.
As long as you are okay with it, it's your choice. Until you start to make the assumption that your entitled to anything that has not entered public domain there is little question. If you think it's okay it's okay. However that doesn't mean others can't think differently. That's the thing about morals. They are different for everyone.
So, is it morally permissible? Well, ask yourself the question. Is it? There is your answer.
However if the question your really asking is "Do i deserve..." Or "Am i entitled to..." then that depends on whether or not it has entered public domain. If it hasn't, then no, you don't deserve it or are entitled to it.
Further more, in most cases, the people who actually make the game get a paycheck, and nothing else. Royalties, if any, go to the people on top of the developing company, people who don't generally have much of a hand in making the game. The code monkeys at the bottom don't see any royalty checks. In most cases the company holders, be it publishers or the owning agents of the Development company, see anything in the way of royalties. How that gets dispersed is up to the people up top.
You can legally purchase a digital copy of most games.
Now, that is out of the way, I am further going to assume you mean games that appear no where except on rom sites. In other words not in stores or on the respective copyright holders online store. Whether or not is honestly up to you.
Honestly, people scream about morals all the time. However the fact is they do not enter into this. In most cases, it's peoples sense of entitlement.
As long as you are okay with it, it's your choice. Until you start to make the assumption that your entitled to anything that has not entered public domain there is little question. If you think it's okay it's okay. However that doesn't mean others can't think differently. That's the thing about morals. They are different for everyone.
So, is it morally permissible? Well, ask yourself the question. Is it? There is your answer.
However if the question your really asking is "Do i deserve..." Or "Am i entitled to..." then that depends on whether or not it has entered public domain. If it hasn't, then no, you don't deserve it or are entitled to it.
I've had an SNES and Genesis emulator for a while, because it's practically the only way to play these games anymore without going on Ebay. I've also downloaded some old PC Abandonware too; Privateer, Ultima 7, that sort of thing. Also the King's Quest games. Since I literally can't buy these games any more (or couldn't at the time, in the case of games that've been made available on Virtual Console and in things like the Genesis collection), I feel it's definitely permissible.
I'd say it depends. If you own the game, but don't want to re-buy it for a new system, then I think that'd be fine. If it's a game you've never played, and it's available for digital distribution, I'd say you should still buy it. For example, I'd feel fine about emulating Duck Tales on the NES, since it's not on virtual console, but I would not emulate Mega Man X, since it is.
I think this is one of those cases where nobody cares whether or not you pirate. The publisher of the game in question will not make any money anyway (if they are still around that is), so they won't protest. The only other possible place to get the game in question would be a used game store, but chances are they don't stock everything, or places like eBay. In any case, you run the risk of getting scammed. I'd say download away! As long as the game has been out of publication for a decade or so, you won't hear any real complaints.
If there is no way to get hold of a copy then go for. But always check Steam or GoG for them first. Especially with GoG, even if the money doesn't get to the original designers, it goes towards acquiring licenses and updating more old classics for the modern day to download.
I don't think I could remember things I pirated before 2006.NickCaligo42 said:
I hope you're being sarcastic.Odbarc said:
This game I just got can't be found anywhere. I've only just heard about it and it's friggin' FUN!
Some oldschool D&D PC game. Hella fun too. Better than most games that came out in the last 5 years.
Icewind Dale 2. Man, poor UI back then. Hard as hell to control my party. I don't think the game's supposed to run on 60 FPS.
Some oldschool D&D PC game. Hella fun too. Better than most games that came out in the last 5 years.
Icewind Dale 2. Man, poor UI back then. Hard as hell to control my party. I don't think the game's supposed to run on 60 FPS.
Honestly, I see little reason to -outlaw- old games.
Nintendo honestly thought if you had roms, or even played a old nes game (if they made a backward compatable system) You would NEVER buy a new game. EVER.
Because anyone who ever unzipped a 700 game rom pack, played what 3 minutes of each game they remember ok...45 seconds... to remind them how much they hated that game?
I must admit I played Zelda for 10 minutes before growing tired of it...
Yet in the fear of old games, that never stopped Nintendo repackaging said 20 year game for the game boy and selling it back to you for 20 bucks a pop.
Ahh the real issue. If you bout Zelda 20 years ago, and if you nes is dead...you must buy their game again and again.
If you bought it 4 times, it's still evil to just download a rom of it. Even so you'll barely play it...
But they want the money. As well allow any other game that could be "free" vanish into digital extinction....
Nintendo honestly thought if you had roms, or even played a old nes game (if they made a backward compatable system) You would NEVER buy a new game. EVER.
Because anyone who ever unzipped a 700 game rom pack, played what 3 minutes of each game they remember ok...45 seconds... to remind them how much they hated that game?
I must admit I played Zelda for 10 minutes before growing tired of it...
Yet in the fear of old games, that never stopped Nintendo repackaging said 20 year game for the game boy and selling it back to you for 20 bucks a pop.
Ahh the real issue. If you bout Zelda 20 years ago, and if you nes is dead...you must buy their game again and again.
If you bought it 4 times, it's still evil to just download a rom of it. Even so you'll barely play it...
But they want the money. As well allow any other game that could be "free" vanish into digital extinction....
Well, piracy is illegal...
Before pirating it, check if it's abandonware. If it's not, check if it's on GOG or dotemu. I'm pretty sure if it's still distributed anywhere by the original devs, it's -definitely- illegal, and to some, immoral.
Many games can be found via digital distribution - many can't. Check who has the rights and who would be getting money for it and whatnot.
Before pirating it, check if it's abandonware. If it's not, check if it's on GOG or dotemu. I'm pretty sure if it's still distributed anywhere by the original devs, it's -definitely- illegal, and to some, immoral.
Many games can be found via digital distribution - many can't. Check who has the rights and who would be getting money for it and whatnot.
If it's Abandonware then yes as your not depriving the publisher and designers money otherwise no as it's copyright infringement.
My policy is that if there's absolutely, one-hundred percent no good way of purchasing this game and even if you can jump through a hundred hoops to purchase it the publishers have long since moved on and noone will be getting good money for it then I say it's alright.
Mind you I tend to play demos of older games that I've heard are must-plays (like Grim Fandango and System-Shock two) and roam through bargain bins at stores looking for the holy grails.
Digital distribution's made it alot easier, I myself purchased the Half-Life pack on Steam a few years ago (I'm stuck on the LAST BOSS FIGHT, literally all I have to do is get to the creature's head...they certainly don't make it easy).
Mind you I tend to play demos of older games that I've heard are must-plays (like Grim Fandango and System-Shock two) and roam through bargain bins at stores looking for the holy grails.
Digital distribution's made it alot easier, I myself purchased the Half-Life pack on Steam a few years ago (I'm stuck on the LAST BOSS FIGHT, literally all I have to do is get to the creature's head...they certainly don't make it easy).
What you just wrote is an excellent argument in favor of piracy. If we recognize that the point of purchasing a product, rather than pirating it, is to ensure that its creators get paid, why is it our moral obligation to pay for a copy that they won't see any money for? Hear me out, because I'm not arguing for piracy so much as pointing out that our current copyright laws are seriously flawed. This is coming from a US perspective because the US copyright laws are the ones I'm familiar with, and because it's mostly American companies that are going after people for copyright enforcement.Kagim said:
In the early days of the US, we were something of a pirate nation. We had no copyright laws of our own, and we weren't signatories of any international copyright agreements. This allowed us to flourish in our infancy. There was even a patented British textile mill design that was famously stolen by an American businessman, who was seen as a hero by his country men.
When you fastforward to the very first US copyright law, it was enacted with the intention of allowing a content creator to profit off of his work for a short period (something like 20 years, although I could be off by a little bit) and then allow it to go into the public domain, during which he could still profit off of it, but would not have a legally enforced monopoly on its production. This is, ultimately, the point of copyright and public domain works; to allow a content creator to profit off of his work for a period, but not for all eternity.
Fast forward to today, and the copyright lasts for 75 years after the creator's death. At this point, his grandchildren's grandchildren will be seeing money off of something they had nothing to do with -- or, more likely, the grandchildren's grandchildren of the publisher who bought the rights from him. We have Disney to thank for this, since they politely ask congress to extend their copyright every time Steamboat Willie is due to go into the public domain, and congress always obliges.
Now, can you really support a system which allows people who aren't even related to the creation of a work to profit off of it indefinitely? It's a complete perversion of the original intent of copyright, not to mention ironic, coming from a nation whose economy was basically founded on piracy. When a system that was meant to protect the creator of a work turns around and prevents him from profiting on it (as the person quoted above described) how on earth can we continue to support it?
TL;DR: Copyright is seriously screwed up, and is in a state completely opposed to its original intent.
If its literally impossible to acquire the game otherwise? Then yes. Of course, thats why gog.com is awesome.
Honestly,unless there is a way to support the creator's I feel that it's more ok than not to pirate old games. But if it is on gog.com or some place that works with the creator's of the game to release it to you,It's not morally advisable.