Poll: Is the encouragement of Feminism/Women's Rights, a form of Cultural Imperialism?

[Helmholtz Watson]

So I was thinking after seeing a couple videos on how people in the West(Europe/US) react to the idea of the Burka and how people felt that it was wrong for women to wear them. However, when Arab-Muslim women were asked about it, they didn't understand what the big problem was and some Muslim men were pissed that they are being accused of mistreating their wives/girlfriends. (I can understand why the men might be pissed because if somebody told me that the way my culture treats my mom,aunt, grandma, cousin, girlfriend, ect. is wrong and I'm a bad person for supporting such a thing) So it makes me wonder if telling the Muslim world how they should treat women, even if it goes against their tradition, is a form of Western cultural imperialism? What do you guys think?

 

[ZeroMachine]

It is and it isn't.

They disrespect women. They really do. It's wrong, on a "human rights" level.

But... it's tradition, as you said. So... we don't really have the right to tell them to change. Especially if the women don't see anything wrong with it.

But, they may see nothing wrong with it because they've been raised that way...

I don't know. It's a huge can of worms and requires a lot more thought than I have the patience to put into it right now.

Interesting point, though. Definitely a topic worth discussing.

 

[Worgen]

Ultimately if they want to wear it, let them, I mean their religion hardly says they have to wear one out and about anymore then christianty does (spoiler, if your a women in church and your hair isn't covered your committing a sin according to the bible) really if they want to wear one that's fine, if they are forced to wear one then that's bad, and if they want to wear one for a drivers licence photo then they shouldn't get a licence. Just because you say your religion requires you to cover your head doesn't mean your god is above the law.

 

[zehydra]

It is, but that doesn't mean that we don't have a good reason for doing so.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

It is, but that doesn't mean that we don't have a good reason for doing so.

But then I have to ask, if its for the greater good (I'm just assuming that's your argument) then where do we draw the line as to what we can tell them to do? Can we go too far in an effort to try to protect human rights?

 

[spartan231490]

Of course it is. We are telling them that their traditions are wrong and that ours are correct, wtf else would that be?

 

[DeadlyYellow]

Question: Would anybody care about this if the same region wasn't largely identified as a terrorist hotspot?

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Question: Would anybody care about this if the same region wasn't largely identified as a terrorist hotspot?

I guess I would ask the same thing about East and South East Asia. The women in some of those places are treated (based off my own opinion) rather poorly. Even in more modern places like Japan and South Korea, women are expected to quit their job as soon as they marry and take care of the kids. Its to the point that some places don't like to hire young women because they think "oh she is just going to get married and quit so I'm wasting my time hiring and training her". However imo, I think western culture is helping to stop such practices. So the same question, is western Feminism in East and South East Asia a form of cultural imperialism?

 

[garfoldsomeoneelse]

It's a good question. I'm pretty sure there's a line to be distinguished between a culturally-ingrained insistence on equality between sexes for its own sake, and insisting on relative equality for the sake of stamping out human rights violations. Me, I don't take much issue with a culture that insists women wear burqas or some equivalent, because while it's goofy and backwards, it's not really hurting anyone; however, when those same cultures condone rape and stonings and the like, that's when I'd sympathize with anyone that wants to enforce cultural progression on their part.

 

[Dags90]

"Imperialism" suggests more than "encouraging", so I don't think it's an apt comparison. Or at least, it's a very poor choice of words.

 

[Sagacious Zhu]

Yes it is, but that's not a bad thing.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Yes. Anytime one culture tells another what is "right" or "wrong" its passing judgment on their culture based on its own culture. A basic tenant of anthropology is that you shouldn't judge other cultures by way of your own culture. Doesn't mean people agree with this idea.

 

[renegade7]

In a sense...on the one hand, they do have very backwards views on women's rights (ie there are none) on the other, the women in question don't mind.

Now, if you want to talk about some other views of fundamental Islamic law on women's rights (stoning of rape victims, for instance) , we could definitely find some problems there. I'm sorry, but some traditions just should not be allowed to continue.

 

[aba1]

yaaaaa I am fairly sure the women wear them because it makes it so men can't judge you on your appearance. Either way anyway that women get mistreated over there I don't really relate the the hijab or burka but I dunno I am not part of that culture nor do I spend anytime around it so it really isn't my place to judge based on others speculations.

 

[Isaac The Grape]

-snip-

Thread title should add "in arabic world by western nations" after "Womens Rights".

OT: Depends on your attitude. Are the people you're helping "behind the times" or "culurally different". The motive is more important then the action itself. I would say that it should be considered from the point of view of the people on the reciving end. And that any action should be an offering, rather than "advice" or "request".

 

[Isaac The Grape]

Yes it is. And the only real way to justify either side of the argument is to measure the benefits to a persons life that each would have.

That isn't an easy thing to do. Because we're looking at things from eyes focused on our culture, we find it difficult to understand why other people aren't seeing the same injustice that we are seeing. At the same time, they're viewing the situation from their own perspective and see us bullying them with our own beliefs.

There is no easy way to measure which side of arguments like this is right, especially not when our cultures are so opposing.

I will however say, we have come from a patriarchal society. Our attitude on this subject used to be a lot closer to theirs than it is to our current values. So we have the advantage of learning from our past. Women made it very clear they want to be treated as equals. No other culture came in and forced this onto them.

I find it hard to imagine women in heavily patriarchal societies wouldn't prefer a more equal standing in their culture if given the chance to get used to it. But there is no way for that to happen without it tarring us as the evil outsiders, trying expunge their values and heritage for our own.

The only option is to educate them, as unbelievably arrogant as that sounds. There's a reason a lot of women from those parts of the world move to the west and end up adopting our values (to an extent) over their own.

But, at the same time, there are those sticklers for tradition that seem perfectly happy to carry on doing as they've been brought up to do.

It's a touchy topic, I certainly fall very much on our side of the line. I'm very much for equality and I'm not fond of religion being forced onto people from a young age. Especially when it has such an impact in day to day life.

But I respect other peoples values as long as they don't harm anyone (throwing acid on women who refuse you should be punishable by castration via hungry pigs as far as I'm concerned.), and I see the danger of forcing people to 'believe what we believe because we say so.'

I would add that it is important to look beyond culture and more on induvidual motives. Who benifits from what; how and why? Does a preserval of the current social order mean reataining a grip on power? Does a forign alternitive help you appear more counter-cultural? Is your secularist group simply looking for an angle they can work with and help persue nation wide change. There is no blanket anwser. Each sisutation should be induvidually examined.

PS: Cultural Imperialism or forign control via or made easyer by cultural subversion? That is also an important question.

 

[drisky]

It is a matter of choice, in Muslim nations where the burkas are mandatory it is a problem. However when someone tells a women to take it off because its offensive, that is also a problem. Neither women's rights or religious rights should be attacked, and we see both happening with this issue.

 

[Phisi]

It comes down to whether the women want to wear it. If they do because of whatever reason (tradition, fashionable etc) then it is cultural imperialism and as nothing to do with women's rights, unless they are not allowed to wear them because they are women :S this can be confusing stuff. You must remember that culture encompasses everything about a society, a group of people and it is almost always imperialism but at the same time it is also imperialistic for the other culture to be forced upon its citizens or followers. It comes down to whether he individual gets to decide.

 

[Ham_authority95]

If they were simply given the option of non-traditional female roles, it wouldn't be imperialism in my book.

If someone barged in and forced traditional women to change their ways, then it would be imperialism.