Poll: Jedi or Sith Philosophy: Who is right?

[ejrocksthisworld]

I've been watching a ton of Star Wars films, shows and playing a lot of games and I've come to realize that I don't necessarily agree with the philosophy of the Jedi. Then again in nearly all portrayals of the Sith they are villainous and pure evil, yet their philosophy runs more in line with what many of us would identify as being uniquely Human traits. I realize that there is a middle road in between the two in all probability, but for arguments sake lets see if we can dissect this debate and see which path is preferable to undertake to progress as a species and as individuals. I feel as though I am unqualified to speak as I have limited references (the movies, The Clone Wars show and a few games) so to make this interesting I highly encourage more qualified individuals who are genuinely Star Wars savvy to reply with their opinions and basis for arguments and to try to limit the reply to what is considered CANON and not LEGENDS. You can use Legends if you must, but it would be interesting to see a Canon explanation in this debate.

 

[tippy2k2]

Well....neither. There's a reason there needs to be balance to the force.

The Jedi are glorified monks taking the pills from Equilibrium (you literally can't feel feelings for you poor bastards who skipped this awesome movie). You can't love. You can't hate. Hell, I'm guessing you get dirty looks from people if you get too excited that you got Ice Cream Cake for your birthday.

The Sith are on the other end where they are selfish pricks. What they want comes before what everyone else wants. Oh shit, my wife is going to die? Better murder some children to save her because logic!

I suppose if you HAD to choose one, it would end up being Jedi since at least there's some semblance of selflessness in their actions where the Sith just do what they want for their own good.

EDIT: Also Note, I am going off of the six movies and that's it.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Neither... religion and false virtue is garbage compared to the proletariat strength of the earth!

In truth, I'll go Sith because Red > Blue

Sarge can back me up on this.

 

[Jux]

Depends if we're sticking to movie canon, or if EU is included to expand on the philosophies.

 

[DoPo]

I've been watching a ton of Star Wars films, shows and playing a lot of games and I've come to realize that I don't necessarily agree with the philosophy of the Jedi. Then again in nearly all portrayals of the Sith they are villainous and pure evil, yet their philosophy runs more in line with what many of us would identify as being uniquely Human traits. I realize that there is a middle road in between the two in all probability

And, interestingly, this is exactly a large part of what KOTOR 2 explores. Which is part of why I think it a masterpiece.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Mostly going from the 6 movies, the Jedi are pretty hopeless, but the Sith are evil.

But, it's a two faction Force, so the Jedi can expect people to support them as the lesser evil without them having to help with their problems much.

...

Huh, if Lucas hadn't gone off the deep end, I'd say he was making a commentary on certain political situations.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Neither is better. If you're going just on the currently accepted canon and not the Expanded Universe/Legends. The Sith are more practical, while the Jedi are more virtuous.

In the Expanded Universe/Legends this is more complicated. The Je'daii who preceded the Jedi Order and the Sith, were totally force neutral, dedicating their lives to maintaining balance. Later on the new Galactic Empire had force knights who were a neutral organization, though individually adhered to the light or dark sides to varied degrees. The Emperor was a knight and had to maintain total neutrality, or lose their seat of power. The New Jedi Order valued maintaining high morals, but allowed property ownership, romantic relationships. Most importantly they actively encouraged each Jedi to use the force abilities that they were most gifted in, be the powers light, neutral, or dark.

It's important to remember that the Sith were a species, one that revelled in use of the dark side, just like the Rakatan, and both of them eventually destroyed their own civilizations. Which is the nature of the dark side, eventual self destruction through an extreme of self indulgence and self interest.

For the most part both sides have had their good and bad sides. For a long while the Jedi and Sith orders were competitive with each other and functioned well in their own ways. The Sith were more brutal and valued self highly, the Jedi on the other hand valued society and self sacrifice. It wasn't until Darth Bane instituted the rule of two that it all fell apart, the Sith basically disappeared and that made the Jedi complacent.

 

[Scarim Coral]

No neither?

Jedi (the old way before Luke) were emotionaless to the point of cutting their ties to their family and including love and other positive emotion (yes they can also turn bad but still).

Sith while they embrace emotion but they lack control over it. So imagine a overgrown babies.

So overall they should really just have proper control over their feelings.

 

[DefunctTheory]

I always wondered whether Anakin Skywalker "bringing balance to the force" is allowing the sith to get stronger after nearly getting wiped out, could be either a writing brilliance (in a pretty mediocre trilogy) or just a fan interpratation.

Anakin brings the force to balance by annihilating two morally corrupt systems, both the Sith and Jedi, and allowing all future force users to forge their own path.

As for the original question... it depends. If we're going only by the 100% canon sources, neither. Both the Jedi and Sith run on 100% inhuman bullshit. If we're going by EU standards (Notably KOTOR/SW:TOR, since they delve deeply into the subject), Sith. If you think about it, the Sith are only one leap away from reasonable - They're all about freedom, which is good. The one leap is that they think the only way to be truly free is to be the master of everything, or the master of as much as you can get your hands on. The idea that doing anything your not 100% comfortable with is 100% slavery seems to be the notion that pushed the Sith over the edge. Besides that, I can really get behind the Sith mindset.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Anakin brings the force to balance by annihilating two morally corrupt systems, both the Sith and Jedi, and allowing all future force users to forge their own path.

I also saw this connection.

Insurgent Sith are gone, overzealous Jedi police force is gone, a brand spanking new republic blossoming. All around a better situation.

Bringing balance to the Force. Remember, the Force isn't just Jedi and Sith but all living inhabitants across the galaxy. They are all free now. No overzealous anti-love nazis, no sociopathic tyrants, no empire, no robotic doom armies ... just people.

 

[Fox12]

George Lucas is no philosopher, they're both kind of dumb. But the Sith win the shiny gold dunce cap.

The fact that they have to kill their master in order to become a new master is incredibly stupid. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The fact that there are only two Sith in the films only makes it worse. Who thought this was a good idea?

 

[DefunctTheory]

George Lucas is no philosopher, they're both kind of dumb. But the Sith win the shiny gold dunce cap.

The fact that they have to kill their master in order to become a new master is incredibly stupid. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The fact that there are only two Sith in the films only makes it worse. Who thought this was a good idea?

The EU explanation is that the Sith are, by their nature, unstable, and given time and enough of them, they'll always collapse into a giant genocidal shit show that will inevitably kill them all/most of them off. After one of these collapses, there was only one Sith left, and he instituted the 'Rule of Two' to stabilize Sith culture and insure it survived forever.

Whether he honestly believed that, or made the rule up as a ploy to dominate his one apprentice, is left to the reader.

 

[Tragedy's Rebellion]

Neither of them, really. As DoPo said this is thoroughly explored in KotOR 2. The Sith are inherently self-destructive and there is no future in their philosophy, while the Jedi are passive to the point of extinction, in addition to being massive hypocrites.

 

[Atrocious Joystick]

Star Wars isn't exactly all about grey and grey morality, the sith are clearly evil and the jedi clearly good, even if a bit zealous. Sure, the jedi are pretty quick to anger and have a pretty impressive body count for being "peacekeepers" but that is more a symptom of being characters in an action/scifi movie rather than something being implied about their moral code.

Come to think of it, do the sith actually even exist in the films or are they just a product of the games and such? I don't seem to recall Darth Vader, the emperor, et al, being referred to as Sith, rather than just being rogue jedi.

 

[lionsprey]

neither they are both excellent demonstrations on how to NOT deal with your emotions in a healthy fashion.

 

[Ishal]

I've been watching a ton of Star Wars films, shows and playing a lot of games and I've come to realize that I don't necessarily agree with the philosophy of the Jedi. Then again in nearly all portrayals of the Sith they are villainous and pure evil, yet their philosophy runs more in line with what many of us would identify as being uniquely Human traits. I realize that there is a middle road in between the two in all probability

And, interestingly, this is exactly a large part of what KOTOR 2 explores. Which is part of why I think it a masterpiece.

I've thought this as well.

In fact, when one looks into the third prequel film. You tend to realize that in many ways, the Jedi, and their dogma, did more to push Anakin to the Dark Side than anyone else.

The Sith code is fairly straightforward and good, if one views it as a way to self betterment. The question then is: why are they all evil and villainous? Well, aside from the meta answer of "there needs to be a bad guy." My answer would be that absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which tends to be the way things work out for the Sith. Keep getting "better" by amassing more power, then bad things start to happen.

The best way is the way of Kreia. You need to the contrast. You need to be a "Grey/dark" Jedi.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

It's easy to be inhuman when you are inhuman.

People today have just twitter feeds and the anonymity of the internet, and they abuse that power for all it's worth. Now, we're raising a generation of kids who know nothing but that, and for the vast majority.. they are putzes.

to whit, Sith are boring. Because they are basic people. "I want, and now I have the power to get, so I'll get". It's more relate-able, because that's almost everyone you know ever. That doesn't make it better.

The Jedi don't particularly preach. It's not like they go out and try to convince people to join the Jedi way of life. Because the fact of the matter is they simply can't. Either you're born with the connection to the force or you are not. The Republic council asks the Jedi for help, and the Jedi help if they can.

Yeah, I get it. Evil's real, Good's stupid. That popular idea of now. However, we should be fair to say that the Jedi code (which I think the OP is referring to about when we talk about philosophy) was only meant for Jedi.

The Jedi Code was a code of conduct intended to help establish, regulate and maintain the general behavior of all Jedi. Despite undergoing, at some point during Jedi history, a subtle but substantial alteration of at least its written tenets, the code's fundamental context and meaning, invoking as it did self-discipline, tolerance, compassion, harmony and peaceful exploration, remained unchanged.

Yeah, Boring. However, it was to make sure that the Jedi didn't fall to the dark side and the universe wasn't rife with Force Users dominating regular people. Did they use their philosophy in interacting with other beings? Absolutely. Who doesn't? But being a Jedi isn't a religion. You don't make converts... I'm not even sure about religion in the Star Wars universe. It was just a way to help those with nigh reality warping powers co-exist with other beings who were not lucky enough to have that same ability.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Star Wars isn't exactly all about grey and grey morality, the sith are clearly evil and the jedi clearly good, even if a bit zealous. Sure, the jedi are pretty quick to anger and have a pretty impressive body count for being "peacekeepers" but that is more a symptom of being characters in an action/scifi movie rather than something being implied about their moral code.

Come to think of it, do the sith actually even exist in the films or are they just a product of the games and such? I don't seem to recall Darth Vader, the emperor, et al, being referred to as Sith, rather than just being rogue jedi.

The are called Sith a few times in the original movies, and hundreds of times in the Prequels.