Poll: Man of Steel; Why the hatred?

[tippy2k2]

NOTE: I shouldn't have to say this but I will just in case:

SPOILER WARNING NOW!

I searched a bit on Ze Escapist because I know this has been brought up repeatedly. However, I can't find a thread dedicated to it (lots of cheap shots and whatnot in other threads and "official" threads from Ze Escapist) so I figured I'd just come out and ask:

Why is "Man of Steel" hated so much (or seems that way since so much of the internet seems to hate it)?

I absolutely loved it. Personally, I thought it was one of the best superhero movies we've gotten, on par with "The Avengers".

The first act I thought was a weaker part but good. Without doing the "Here's fifty minutes of the origin story we already know", the movie was able to demonstrate who Superman was and why he acts the way he acts. Flashbacks sprinkled throughout the rest of the film flesh this out. Rather than going "Amazing Spider-Man" where the first half of the film is something we've seen, it gives us new information (for those who are not fans of the comic that is; I don't believe the actual Fall of Krypton is shown in the former movies but I could be mistaken) and allows us to learn what we need to learn without slowing the beginning to a crawl.

The second half sprinkled more background on Superman's growing up period and why he's willing to fight and why he is so reluctant to reveal himself. Good idea or bad idea for him to hide is negligible for he's going off of what he was taught growing up. Granted, the middle could have been slimmed down a bit but I had no problem with it overall.

Now the movies long, I get that. The fact that I watched it in my home rather than the theater might actually save itself from the hatred I see online (since I can pause it and do whatever I want whenever I want). This informs my next thing as the main criticism I have overheard:

"The fights in the third act are too long"

I am kind of baffled by people's reaction to the fights (for clarity sake, I am referring to all three main fights at the end; starting with Faora, middle of giant machine, ending with Zod).

Personally, I thought this was the BEST superhero fight I've ever seen. One big thing people seem to hate about old fights like this was the lack of destruction and epicness. Basically, people of old complained that a fight between two God's would result in the destruction of everything around them. This is exactly what these fights gave them and now they're too long? It seems like they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

TLDR (That hurts my feelings D?

So there's my opinion on the movie. If by some miracle you have read through all of it, let me know what you thought of "Man of Steel" (or even if you didn't read all of it, feel free to give your opinion). Is it a vocal minority and most people like it or are the cheap shots warranted? Liked the movie? Didn't? Have no opinion because you didn't watch it but for some reason want to feel part of the conversation?

 

[Hero in a half shell]

Personally I think it just didn't really gel with my vision of Superman.

Superman is a compassionate god living amongst men, he empathises and cares for us so much that he wants to help us and use his powers to alleviate all the problems that we have, which means rescuing people from floods, earthquakes, fires, getting cats from trees etc.

But he sees better than anyone that the main problems humanity faces are ones we create ourselves: War, Genocide, Crime, Greed, Racism, Slavery, Extortion, Hate, Murder.

He is a man of infinite physical strength, but his greatest fight is against the ideological selfishness ingrained in human society. A foe he cannot punch, or intimidate to change. His biggest nemesis is the very minds of the people he wants to save, and he cannot forcibly change it with all the strength in the universe.

All he can do is become a symbol. A symbol of hope, of goodness, of charity, righteousness, humility and kindness, to lead by example and try to drag us out of the mire we have trapped ourselves in.
And still he watches the world turn as it always did, and nothing new appears under the sun. The old Tyrants are overthrown by the freedom fighters, who use their freedom to become tyrants in their turn. The bullied goes out and becomes a bully. The rich and comfortable exploit and steal from those less fortunate to give themselves just a little more. The sun rises, and the sun sets, and nothing of humanity has changed.

I love the dilemma of Superman. He is a man desperately trying to save a world that is wilfully killing itself right before his very eyes, and the people that cry for help one day are the ones causing pain the next. You don't need a super powered villain to fight superman, you just need someone full of irrational hate, who refuses to change, who has no empathy or care for his fellow man. That man can just by his refusal to yield make Superman face the reality that maybe he is ultimately failing to change us. Maybe we are beyond help, and he is only prolonging the pain, because eventually he will die, he's invincible, but not immortal, and one day the world won't have Superman to save itself from itself, and on that day WE will destroy humanity: Not Zod, not Darkseid, not Doomsday, but our own selfish hate will doom us unless he can change our entire way of thinking, unless he can make all of humanity see that they don't need to fight each other, that empathy and care are the best way to live.

So far, he has failed to achieve this, and his biggest reminder is the constant gloating of the most unnecessarily selfish and hateful man of them all. Lex Luthor.

That's my Superman. That's what I want a Superman movie to explore. So far that hasn't happened yet.

 

[Vausch]

I hated it.

The pacing and non-linear storytelling was obnoxious. It could have easily worked by simply moving all of the flashback scenes into sequential order or showing them all at once during the first flashback.

The colours are dreary, washed out, desaturated, and gloomy.

Superman barely smiles. I hate that. When he's flying for the first time and smiling I started thinking "Oh hey, a logical reactio-aaand back to gloomy".

Everybody is a goddamn idiot.

Spoiler

Superman's argument with his dad before his death is a straight ripoff of the first Spider-Man movie.

I never understood why the Kryptonians were able to keep pace with Clark on Earth even in the battle armour, because Clark should quite clearly be stronger than them even with lighter gravity and enhancements. For that matter, if being on a Kryptonian ship causes such a different atmosphere change for Clark that it nearly kills him as an adult, shouldn't the change have outright killed him as a baby?

Thousands if not millions of people are dead because Clark is a goddamn idiot.

I counted 22 obvious product placements in 5 minutes during the first fight. Usually I don't mind product placement if it's subtle, but to say the least that's pretty bad.

Petty gripe but I hate the lack of red undies. I would have settled for a belt, but there's too much blue.

Superman is Jesus symbolism EVERYWHERE.

So, yeah. Hated it.

 

[tippy2k2]

That's my Superman. That's what I want a Superman movie to explore. So far that hasn't happened yet.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I thought that Superman was exactly what we got here (except he went the other way with it).

Basically, a Superman who realizes that he alone can't be the answer. He spends the vast majority of the movie in hiding because the world isn't ready for that symbol yet. The world would turn on that symbol if it presented itself.

Unfortunately for Sup, his hand was forced by Zod. I suppose most of the movie was him hiding so your version of Superman (the one doing stuff) is absent for the majority of this. That may be rectified with #2...

snips

Thank you for that. I hear a lot of people trash the film but don't actually say why. I may disagree with many of your points (I loved the flashback stuff as stated in my OP, I was fine with the cinematography/general mood of the film since it matches how Superman is feeling for the vast majority of it, and the only product placement I noticed was the NIKON camera).

However, if you wouldn't mind, could you expand upon the "Everyone's an idiot" and "Superman got everyone killed"? I don't really know what happened that would make you feel that way.

 

[Tanis]

Superman is all about hope.
A God deciding to sever, instead of rule.

Man of Steel...was not this.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

That's my Superman. That's what I want a Superman movie to explore. So far that hasn't happened yet.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I thought that Superman was exactly what we got here (except he went the other way with it).

Basically, a Superman who realizes that he alone can't be the answer. He spends the vast majority of the movie in hiding because the world isn't ready for that symbol yet. The world would turn on that symbol if it presented itself.

Unfortunately for Sup, his hand was forced by Zod. I suppose most of the movie was him hiding so your version of Superman (the one doing stuff) is absent for the majority of this. That may be rectified with #2...

There is lip service to the idea in the trailer (The Russell Crow narration words) but it is never actually explored in the film.

The first half of the movie is all about keeping himself a secret through their fear of "Will they accept me or will I be rejected?"

Then the whole thing with Zod is "Choose Krypton or Humanity" the logical conclusion to which should have been "How about Mars?"

And... that's pretty much as deep as the movie went. There was a little bit about Zod being mentally conditioned to perform his duty verses Superman being naturally born, and of course there was the Jesus symbolism shoved up the wazoo, but his broody nature was from thinking humanity wouldn't handle the truth of "I'm alien Jesus" and then that the last of his species appeared to tell him he has to choose humanity or Krypton.
The idea of Superman trying to save humanity from itself, of that being the reason he becomes this incorruptible symbol of goodness and devotes himself not just to helping disasters and fighting crime, but performing charity work and encouraging the goodness in all mankind. That wasn't explored in the movie.

 

[DoPo]

Because all the "die hard" fans thought it wasn't what Superman should be.

That and Man of Steel seem to be on most of the people of this forums worst movies of 2013. They're not bad movies (even IM3. Even thought I just can't stand RDJ). All the "fans" are just butthurt because it wasn't exactly what they wanted.

Funny - I am not really a fan of Superman and I still didn't find it appealing. I've watched...let's see - Superman 2 and...some animated episodes when I was, like 8 or so. I don't think this would make me anywhere near a die hard fan. Yet, I still didn't like big portions of it. Vausch mentioned some, I'd just like to reiterate:
- the flashbacks were awkward, weird and felt out of place
- people are stupid. Yes, especially Clark's father

Spoiler

His death was completely and utterly unnecessary in the context. It felt forced and contrived. Logic fails when one tries to describe it. Due to that, I didn't really feel any impact and the only thought in my head after the end was "so...what about the people under the bridge? How did they survive?" since it seems to me that bridge wasn't really tornado-proof.

- the Kryptonians were...baffling. Zod complained about taking them years to adjust, yet it seems they needed more like minutes. And they seemed fine in the suits, too. Not to mention the new Kryptonians would begenetically engineered so it's not too much of a stretch to assume it's possible to pre-adjust them anyway.
- I still don't understand why Zod and co were let out in the first place. Sure, Krypton blows up and...what? That triggers the "release all prisoners" signal? Why?
- JesusJesusJesusJesusJesusJesusJesusJesusJesusJesusJesusJesus. Probably the thing that made me lose interest in the movie about halfway and just passively observe and analyse it for the rest of the time.

In fact, the Nostalgia critic [http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/41449-man-of-steel] has a better, more in depth and better expressed view that happens to mostly coincide with my observations after watching The Man of Steel.

I am sorry I am bringing up my non-existent preconceptions about the movie here, and I know my "butthurtness", expressed in the fact I found the movie uninteresting and unappealing, as well as slightly jarring causes, you a great deal of discomfort. But I humbly ask you to forgive me.

 

[TehCookie]

I've never seen it and want to be a part of the conversation! I'm not a big fan of movies in general or superheroes. So a superhero movies sounds incredibly meh. I'd rather watch something else if I hate spare time.

 

[Launcelot111]

It's aggressively humorless, the sci-fi elements were intrusive and unnecessary, the conflict was uninteresting, the fight scenes were tedious, and the amount of property destruction made me legitimately anxious. All in all, the biggest thing I took away was further confirmation that Zack Snyder is the worst filmmaker working in Hollywood.

 

[MysticSlayer]

I was sort of hoping for a better story, but the story never resonated with me. It tried taking itself seriously, but it never got me to take it too seriously. Not to mention, their attempts at getting the Messiah imagery around Superman just fell flat. Sure, it went over well with the friends I watched it with (they were all from my church youth group), but I still felt it was needlessly forced in and didn't do anything for his character. Then again, none of the characters were really good.

Still, it was an enjoyable movie. The fights were incredible, especially the one with Zod at the end. The soundtrack managed to turn otherwise boring scenes with two dimensional characters into reasonably emotional moments at times, and it also made the fights even more enjoyable. Overall, it was just fun. Stupid fun, but fun none-the-less. And as someone who really doesn't like superhero movies outside of Nolan's Batman films, remembering the movie even slightly fondly is really good on its part. I wouldn't shower it with praise, but I wouldn't mind recommending it to friends for a movie night.

 

[Happiness Assassin]

I liked it on a purely superficial level. I was entertained by the action sequences, the acting was good, the look of the krytonian technology was quite nice, and I think everyone was pretty well cast. In fact the first time I watched it, I quite liked it.

But then my brain kicked in and a million little things started to bug the shit out of me. The tone of movie was too damn deary for someone who is supposed to be about hope. The pacing is messed up from top to bottom. The story had a shit load of plot holes (why was Lois Lane brought aboard the ship other than to facilitate Superman's escape?). Superman doing absolutely nothing to mitigate the damage of his battle with Zod. And probably the worst thing of all IMO is the fact that Pa Kent is absolutely atrocious character. Not only is he inconsistent as fuck about whether or not Superman should try to save others, but he died for an absolutely bullshit reason. I tried to overlook the flaws to this movie, but every time I think about it, all I see is a movie with a startling lack of thought put into it.

 

[Vausch]

snips

Thank you for that. I hear a lot of people trash the film but don't actually say why. I may disagree with many of your points (I loved the flashback stuff as stated in my OP, I was fine with the cinematography/general mood of the film since it matches how Superman is feeling for the vast majority of it, and the only product placement I noticed was the NIKON camera).

However, if you wouldn't mind, could you expand upon the "Everyone's an idiot" and "Superman got everyone killed"? I don't really know what happened that would make you feel that way.

They tie together, but here's the brunt of it:

Zod wants to bring Krypton back. Fine.

Zod has terraforming equipment. Said equipment can apparently alter the very size and density of a planet. So why do you use Earth? There's another planet about 55 million KM out called Mars. It's technically in the hospitable zone, has water, and your technology can apparently give it a whole new atmosphere. Go there. You can form trade between Earth and you won't cause Superman to get pissed by killing the very planet he calls home and all the people on it.

Or, say Zod doesn't want to do that or can't for whatever reason. Superman is an idiot because when Zod calls him out, what does he do? Goes to a church for guidance. Moron. You have an AI of your father that has complete history and knowledge of Krypton and its technology, knows Zod through and through, and knows how to use Kryptonian technology. What's worse is he does exactly what he should have done later: Throws his pod ship into a terraformer and black holes it.

If Superman had simply gone to Jor-El from the start, who he knows is on the planet, he would have been able to fly his pod to the ship and thrown it at him causing it to get trapped in the phantom zone. No lives lost, no damage to earth, no woman that can only talk in trailer quotes getting sent into said phantom zone with Christopher Meloni.

They're idiots. When How it Should have Ended has a completely accurate point that doesn't even need to add something in for comedic effect, your story has failed.

 

[Sandernista]

The first act I thought was a weaker part but good. Without doing the "Here's fifty minutes of the origin story we already know", the movie was able to demonstrate who Superman was and why he acts the way he acts.

I disagree completely, we have no idea why he acts the way he acts. The flashbacks only seek to reinforce the fact that this Superman's backstory makes no sense. Why does he save people, when Pa Kent tells him his entire life that he needs to hide himself away? Don't even get me started on Pa Kent's death scene, I was laughing in the theater at how poorly that was pulled off.

The second half sprinkled more background on Superman's growing up period and why he's willing to fight and why he is so reluctant to reveal himself. Good idea or bad idea for him to hide is negligible for he's going off of what he was taught growing up. Granted, the middle could have been slimmed down a bit but I had no problem with it overall.

Again that doesn't at all jive with what was on the screen. We are never given any indication as to why Supes wants to help any human. Shit we don't even get any reason he goes to ask for guidance from a priest. We are supposed to just assume that because he is Superman that he wants to do the right thing, but he's not Mookie, there is no motive given.


I enjoyed the fights.

Pacing, writing, cinematography, aside my biggest problem with this movie was that it was NOT MY SUPERMAN. This Superman is given no motivation to do good, he is given no reason to help his fellow man. Shit they're not even his fellow man, we are given no reason as to why he would choose humans over Kryptonians in the first place.

 

[Zak757]

There is really nothing I dislike more than an incredibly dumb piece of fiction that has pretensions of being smart, and attempting to achieve that by being as unnecessarily melodramatic, dark, and "realistic." It was dumb, no smarter than Pacific Rim, (feel free to ask me what I thought was dumb about it) but it wasn't honest about it, and that is what irked me. And I just don't like the idea of taking a story about an alien from another world, who happens to look like a white caucasian male who is a symbol for everything America stands for that goes around beating up bad guys with his limitless god-like powers, and turning it into a broody, edgy, dark movie with barely a hint of levity. I was bored by most of the movie, with exception to some of the fight scenes and the "dramatic" moments that had me laughing because they were shown with a straight face.

I don't think it is a bad movie. The military was presented better here than in most hero movies, the visuals and audio were stunning, and the fight scenes were... well, they were merely okay. Overall, I'd just call it a mediocre movie.

 

[Zhukov]

I didn't actively dislike it.

Nor did I like it.

That one action scene in the small town with Obligatory Big Guy and Miss Zippy Chick was cool. I found the rest of the film to be ho-hum.

However, I had no investment in the idea of a Superman movie, so I wasn't disappointed when it turned out meh.

 

[King Aragorn]

This movie isn't really dark/edgy, atleast not to Nolan degree. It's not 60's light hearted, eat your vitamins Superman but it just has a nice middle ground. Now the movie's main problem is some seriously contradictions plot points and some things that are never delved to.
Primarily, the mass abortion Superman commits. Now, what happened to the bride between two races? did he just forget about that while making the decision? the movie never really delves deep into that so it just sort of happens and that's it. Also, they could have used more character development in the first act of the movie because it just felt like relentless action after relentless action, that kind of worked for the second half but for the start it just threw way too much without taking it's time to establish it's characters. Also, Lois Lane was just completely useless and the her acting wasn't exactly solid, although Henry was absolutely great as Superman. Fight scene wise I would have liked some more clash of styles between the heavily trained Kryptonians and Superman, Superman should have been more about just throwing people through walls ans the like and they should have been the ones who ground him when it comes to straight hand to hand combat, would have made the fights a bit more fun to watch but overall the destruction and it's scale was great and the fight scenes themselves were entertaining.

And at some points the movie does get it's dramatic moments right. That neck snap scene had a fantastic idea behind it and even if it didn't make sense why the civilians didn't just run straight while Superman had his hands around Zod, it showed how as Superman, Clark is going to have to make choices, you can't save everyone at the end of the day.