Poll: Men need to find out that it's good to talk

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chiefohara

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Men have fewer close friends, and their friendships tend to rely less on emotional support and more on camaraderie than women?s. Are they real friendships at all?

A FEW WEEKS ago I was talking to a male friend, who I meet several times a month for coffee. We?ve known each other on and off for about 10 years. He works in the private sector. When we meet we generally chat about current affairs, or sport or perhaps a brief update on our relationships. But that?s as far as it goes. I have no idea how he feels about his life. I don?t know if he is content, or what his insecurities are or how he is coping emotionally.

He became a father some time back. I know he lost sleep and couldn?t get out socially as much. But don?t ask me how being a parent has affected him emotionally or changed his relationship with his wife. We don?t go there, as the Americans might say.

But if you asked either of us independently to list our close friends, both would figure on each other?s list. So are we just acquaintances or genuine close friends?

Or perhaps men use friendships for different reasons than women, and Irish men in particular find it harder to develop deeper, more meaningful friendships than other nationalities? If recent studies from the US are to be believed, Irish men are not alone, and men everywhere are having fewer and fewer close friends. Almost a quarter of those surveyed say they have no one they can confide in or call a close friend.

Men?s friendships tend to be couched in different terms to women?s, relying less on emotional support and more on camaraderie. The rise of online social media coupled with the changing nature of community means that many men are relying solely on their partner or spouse as confidantes.

Relationship consultant David Kavanagh is not surprised that men have fewer friends, and says that men who are married can lose contact with their male friends rapidly.

?Men are working more hours than ever before, and there is more expectation on them when they get married, as opposed to say 20 or 30 years ago. Men are now expected to pull their weight more around the house, and rightly so, but their time to go off and be with male friends has been impacted upon. I myself got married about three years ago and I have seen my male friends a handful of times. To be honest, I?m surprised when a male friend calls.?

Kavanagh says that the majority of his clients are women, and that men are still slow to discuss their emotional issues or dilemmas. Many of them do not discuss these issues with their male friends either, which can lead to a rise in addiction and other health problems.

?I think that, in the main, men don?t identify or define themselves by friendship. They tend to talk more about career and income. Women would rate friendship more highly, and they demand more social contact with female friends.

?In my experience, Irish men in general do not get on the phone and tell male friends how they are feeling. Maybe only 5 per cent of my clients are men. It is worrying, because it?s not as if men are going down the pub and after a few beers telling the guys, ?I feel emotionally vulnerable?.?

Men can have quite shallow relationships over long periods of time without it being an issue, he says.

?I heard of someone recently who said he went to the pub with his best man for the usual few pints. His friend said his marriage was on the rocks, and the guy said he didn?t know where to look, even though he knows him 20 odd years. I think we are very particular about who we say things to. There are perhaps only one or two people most men can express emotions to, and that is not changing. If anything it is getting worse.?

?I heard of someone recently who said he went to the pub with his best man for the usual few pints. His friend said his marriage was on the rocks, and the guy said he didn?t know where to look, even though he knows him 20 odd years

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2010/0803/1224276085256.html
 

Kurokami

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chiefohara said:
Men have fewer close friends, and their friendships tend to rely less on emotional support and more on camaraderie than women?s. Are they real friendships at all?
Males make better friends then women in my experience, judging by the backstabbing I constantly see atleast. I'll admit I have fewer friends than most girls, but my friends are far, far closer than any girls I've seen together. And I've got quite a few girl---friends as well.
 

Mr. Elemenopee

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I have to admit, I don't have many male friends I talk to about emotionally as the topic suggests. But I do make up for it by pouring out my heart and soul to my girl friend. Before that, I would have a handful of female friends that I would talk to in high school. But I'm kinda interested in this topic. How many guys do keep to themselves? I know my father has.
 

Estocavio

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Kurokami said:
chiefohara said:
Men have fewer close friends, and their friendships tend to rely less on emotional support and more on camaraderie than women?s. Are they real friendships at all?
Males have better friends then women, judging by the backstabbing I constantly see. I'll admit I have fewer friends than girls, but my friends are far, far closer than any girls I've seen together.
That would be one of the points of my train of thought.
Also, you state that men have fewer close friends and such as though its a fault - Did you consider that women having many friends is a flaw, and that men not receiving nor wanting the emotional support women receive but still manage to remain mentally sound, where many women even with this support falter, makes it a good thing?
 

chiefohara

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Kurokami said:
chiefohara said:
Men have fewer close friends, and their friendships tend to rely less on emotional support and more on camaraderie than women?s. Are they real friendships at all?
Males make better friends then women in my experience, judging by the backstabbing I constantly see atleast. I'll admit I have fewer friends than most girls, but my friends are far, far closer than any girls I've seen together. And I've got quite a few girl---friends as well.
I'd agree with you there, my sister has a majority of male friends for the same reason.
 

StarStruckStrumpets

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I'm often very upfront about my emotional status, but I only talk to guys about it nowadays. I have two friends in my High-School who I know would take bullets for me, they listen to me whenever I need it, and if we got into a fight, they'd gladly back me up. We're always there for each other, no matter what the problem.

Whenever I've spoken to girls I get aww'd, and it really isn't helpful. I don't want sympathy, I want support. I'm getting sick of girls in general right now, but that's probably to do with my age.
 

Kurokami

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Feb 23, 2009
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Estocavio said:
Kurokami said:
chiefohara said:
Men have fewer close friends, and their friendships tend to rely less on emotional support and more on camaraderie than women?s. Are they real friendships at all?
Males have better friends then women, judging by the backstabbing I constantly see. I'll admit I have fewer friends than girls, but my friends are far, far closer than any girls I've seen together.
That would be one of the points of my train of thought.
Also, you state that men have fewer close friends and such as though its a fault - Did you consider that women having many friends is a flaw, and that men not receiving nor wanting the emotional support women receive but still manage to remain mentally sound, where many women even with this support falter, makes it a good thing?
I've also considered social networking to be a plus, so in my perception the more friends the better, though more would generally mean less time for specific ones so less close friends. I prefer close friends personally. I don't think the emotional crap is necessarily needed for being mentally sound to be honest, men presumably wouldn't do it because, well who wants to be that vulnerable?
 

2fish

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Mostly correct, however I know one or two guys I am willing to discuss feelings with. Not talking about emotions just makes friendships easier unless you really trust the person. We all know Males like easy right? I do agree with some of the posts above that there seems to be less back stabbing and politics in male friendships.

I personally have fewer friends, but I trust these people alot. I consider this a better setup than the girls I know who have a billion friends but no real trustworthy friends in the mix (I know this isn't true for all females, please don't hurt me).
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Women get emotional support by detailing things to their friends.
Men get emotional support by diverting thoughts away from their friends.

Two different uses of friends, both in a supporting role.

Try looking at friends breaking up and I'll tell you now that female friend "betrayal" is nastier, more violent, longer-lasting and with greater fallout.

Guys tend to just say "You're a dick. Fuck off".
 

chiefohara

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Estocavio said:
Kurokami said:
chiefohara said:
Men have fewer close friends, and their friendships tend to rely less on emotional support and more on camaraderie than women?s. Are they real friendships at all?
Males have better friends then women, judging by the backstabbing I constantly see. I'll admit I have fewer friends than girls, but my friends are far, far closer than any girls I've seen together.
That would be one of the points of my train of thought.
Also, you state that men have fewer close friends and such as though its a fault - Did you consider that women having many friends is a flaw, and that men not receiving nor wanting the emotional support women receive but still manage to remain mentally sound, where many women even with this support falter, makes it a good thing?
Its a newspaper article i've quoted, but i guess i agree with most of it.

I think the worry is that whilst women have lots of shallow friends, they still have an inner circle that they pour out everything to. Men don't do the same thing to their closest friends. When i confide emotionally its to a girlfriend. The only times a male friend has done the same to me its when something is seriously seriously wrong, otherwise we just don't do it.

Is that a healthy thing? long term i mean?
 

comadorcrack

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Mar 19, 2009
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Well the only person I ever really tell how I'm feeling is my girlfriend, so I suppose that I agree with you there. I never really talk about my emotions that much.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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chiefohara said:
Is that a healthy thing? long term i mean?
On the one hand, you have bitchiness/gossip and character assassination.
On the other hand, you have ulcers/mood swings and resentment.

Pick your poison, because they're both toxic.
 

iLikeHippos

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I myself am annoyed when someone performs small trivial chit-chat, so I don't bring that up to anyone I know, even when it's awkward silence time.

And I really don't care when someone opens up to me.

I remember that someone in class confined himself on me while I was sitting at a computer, playing some game.

I remember he said he had no friends from before, and I honestly think that sucks.
But I just didn't care, and he could talk on all he wanted, but if he wanted a reply, he could forget it.

People will care about my own problems as much as I care about theirs.
It's just how it works in this Era... Sad.
 

Rarhnor

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Jun 2, 2010
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I actually don't consider any of my friends as "real friends". Roughly for the same reason that the article describes.


Here, is what I think:
Men rely on different values in friends than women do. If I wanted to talk about feelings and be deep, I'd go converse with a female friend. Friendships between guys is subtle. We respect each other on a higher level. A level that doesn't need to be explained or analyzed. We support each other by BEING there, not talking about the issue.

I keep to myself. A lot. I've push away all friends in my vicinity.
 

Bellvedere

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Jul 31, 2008
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Kurokami said:
chiefohara said:
Men have fewer close friends, and their friendships tend to rely less on emotional support and more on camaraderie than women?s. Are they real friendships at all?
Males make better friends then women in my experience, judging by the backstabbing I constantly see atleast. I'll admit I have fewer friends than most girls, but my friends are far, far closer than any girls I've seen together. And I've got quite a few girl---friends as well.
I'm a girl and I have a much better friendship with my male friends then I do with any female friend. That being said I don't open up much and talk about feelings but I don't think that makes a friendship worth any less.

Now I could be wrong and pushing my own thoughts on things onto other people but I find that guys have a much more casual and relaxed view on things than girls. When girls say they're talking about deep and meaningful things it's just the sort of general things you can talk about comfortably with guys. Especially about sex and to a degree relationships. Girls tend to be much more into drama and gossip. I hate drama and most gossip isn't nearly as exciting as people build it up to be.

I would consider people you like to hang around with and can talk about the things that interest you with are friends. I mean, you can talk about really deep secret personal stuff with a therapist or something and that doesn't make them your best friend of all time.
 

Engarde

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I sort of agree. For the most part, my close male friends...I would never actually tell how I feel. Yet I will tell everything to my current significant other, and I love her with all my heart. There is also one guy, an internet friend, yet I have told him significantly more about how I feel than any male I know physically. It is....odd...
 

Estocavio

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chiefohara said:
Estocavio said:
Kurokami said:
chiefohara said:
Men have fewer close friends, and their friendships tend to rely less on emotional support and more on camaraderie than women?s. Are they real friendships at all?
Males have better friends then women, judging by the backstabbing I constantly see. I'll admit I have fewer friends than girls, but my friends are far, far closer than any girls I've seen together.
That would be one of the points of my train of thought.
Also, you state that men have fewer close friends and such as though its a fault - Did you consider that women having many friends is a flaw, and that men not receiving nor wanting the emotional support women receive but still manage to remain mentally sound, where many women even with this support falter, makes it a good thing?
Its a newspaper article i've quoted, but i guess i agree with most of it.

I think the worry is that whilst women have lots of shallow friends, they still have an inner circle that they pour out everything to. Men don't do the same thing to their closest friends. When i confide emotionally its to a girlfriend. The only times a male friend has done the same to me its when something is seriously seriously wrong, otherwise we just don't do it.

Is that a healthy thing? long term i mean?
Whether its healthy cannot be simply answered - Some people literally NEED to know people to talk to, and othersuch. Some people only need one or two people. Then some people need noone. Its a matter of what an individual needs, and you can find denizens for each one.
 

Dags90

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Oct 27, 2009
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I've always kept a close personal confidant in whom I can trust my personal feelings. I've known a few other men who do the same, though I've met my share who had trouble expressing their emotions to others. I think it largely has to with Western cultural ideas of masculinity.
It's kinda sad when people say one sex is more prone to one type of feeling as opposed to the other. I guess we need another 100 years before people think differently.
I find this line of reasoning troubling for several reasons. Racial blindness and sex blindness deny reality. The reality is that men and women are different. Another factor is that these attitudes generally hurt those in subordinate positions in society. For years the medical community wrongly assumed that the heart attack symptoms were the same for both sexes. Who knows how many women suffered from this widespread ignorance by not getting treatment because their symptoms "didn't fit." Sexism is not about the sexes being the same, it's about the sexes being equal.
 

Cody211282

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Why would I want to talk about my feeling again? I just find it useless because it doesn't help anything, all you have done is bothered someone else with your problems.