Poll: Playing with a Friend: SWToR Vs. Rift

[bckai2003]

So my friend and I are trying to decide which game is better for us to play together. We're planning on leveling characters, and only really want to play when we both have the time to play. I've personally tried both games, and I like both for their own reasons. The deciding factor really is how well each game is designed to play with friends.

My initial impressions were that Rift seems inherently designed better to play with friends. You can start a toon and play with your friend throughout leveling. You have the same starting areas, and pretty much the same quests. You only have to decide which side you want to be on.

With SWToR, you don't necessarily start together, and I imagine staying together is more difficult throughout leveling, considering each class has diverging story lines. The only way I can see to remedy that is to make similar classes. Is this true, or can we play together regardless of class after our respective starting planets, and tag along with each other's class quests?

If you have any other reasons that one is better than the other when playing with a friend, I'm all ears.

Cheers.

 

[Smertnik]

Tera!

On topic, though: Can't say much about Rift but in TOR there's no separation after the starting area, apart from the story missions . Two of each classes even start in the same area, so if you want to play together from the start you might want to make either two force or two non-force characters.

 

[bckai2003]

Tera!

On topic, though: Can't say much about Rift but in TOR there's no separation after the starting area, apart from the story missions . Two of each classes even start in the same area, so if you want to play together from the start you might want to make either two force or two non-force characters.

Interesting. So if we made two different classes, either force or non-force, how would the storylines work out? Would each of us be able to participate in the other's storyline?

 

[Dendio]

Force and non force start on different zones then meet up at lvl 10. After that you are together forever and can even travel in each others ship together and assist each other in class quests. You gain social points for questing with a friend in swtor which can be used for customizable gear among other things.

Ive played both rift and tor. Im favoring tor by far

 

[bckai2003]

Force and non force start on different zones then meet up at lvl 10. After that you are together forever and can even travel in each others ship together and assist each other in class quests. You gain social points for questing with a friend in swtor which can be used for customizable gear among other things.

Ive played both rift and tor. Im favoring tor by far

That's a good point about the social points. Also, I didn't know you could travel in each other's ships. That's cool.

 

[Dendio]

Trion really treats their customers well, but swtor just feels more innovative. The questing is ground breaking as far as mmo's are concerned. Rift is still heavily text based unfortunately.

 

[AlternatePFG]

RIFT was good fun for awhile, but questing eventually became really, really tedious for me around level 30 or so. Don't get me wrong, the invasions were still pretty sweet, but in the mid-level zones no one was around to help fight them off and they just became a nuisance. I really liked the game's class system and the ability to switch specs on the fly, but it wasn't enough to keep me going. This was around last summer or so, so it might have changed by then. Either way, I don't think I'll return to it, got other MMO's to play.

As for SWTOR, haven't played it and have no interest in doing so.

 

[bckai2003]

I've been hearing that Trion is really good on their updates and such. I also have heard that the leveling does get tedious. That seems to be the general consensus.

 

[bckai2003]

Bump.

 

[Talshere]

Both are wow Rips.

ToR has the advantage of a more immersive story but is plagued by game destroying bugs.
Rift has no end game but far better visuals.

Which is actually better though? IDK. ToR while having a great sotry felt like a single player game, while I was constantly joining others in Rift and even at 4am didnt feel alone and group up to close rifts, giving it a pregressive feel, ToR on the other had is so static its painful. Even in story areas which ARE solo when you "defet the invasion" the enemies don't de-spawn, despite the fact that this Sith trooper standing here just told me they destroyed all the republic and the remnants have fled to the hills. It makes it feel like Im grinding because ultimately what Ive done has made zero difference, its just another thing I added to the list of stuff Bioware didnt learn from its predecessors.

Ultimately. I doubt I will pay either again. If I had to pick Id chose Rift. Its more progressive, less buggy even on release and actually held me till I maxed out where I only quit because of a lack of content and people to do it with.

 

[bckai2003]

Both are wow Rips.

ToR has the advantage of a more immersive story but is plagued by game destroying bugs.
Rift has no end game but far better visuals.

Which is actually better though? IDK. ToR while having a great sotry felt like a single player game, while I was constantly joining others in Rift and even at 4am didnt feel alone and group up to close rifts, giving it a pregressive feel, ToR on the other had is so static its painful. Even in story areas which ARE solo when you "defet the invasion" the enemies don't de-spawn, despite the fact that this Sith trooper standing here just told me they destroyed all the republic and the remnants have fled to the hills. It makes it feel like Im grinding because ultimately what Ive done has made zero difference, its just another thing I added to the list of stuff Bioware didnt learn from its predecessors.

Ultimately. I doubt I will pay either again. If I had to pick Id chose Rift. Its more progressive, less buggy even on release and actually held me till I maxed out where I only quit because of a lack of content and people to do it with.

Interesting points. How would you rate one over the other in terms of playing with a friend though? We just want to have a good time while leveling and eventually raid, together.

 

[Talshere]

Interesting points. How would you rate one over the other in terms of playing with a friend though? We just want to have a good time while leveling and eventually raid, together.

: / Hard to say. ToR's convo options are very well put together for group leveling. Ill discuss their strong points separately and let you decide.

ToR:
You "can" start in separate areas, but of the 4 classes 2 always start together, so if you for example pick an imp agent and a bounty hunter you do start on the same planet. If you dont you will have to play a few hours before teaming up but after that the story line is linear for all characters in terms of what planets when.

You get social points for questing together in that you can share dialogue conversations. You both pick an option and roll to see who gets to answer. If you lose you dont get the companion points BUT you ALWAYS get your accociated light/dark side point of the option YOU picked regardless of who wins. It is possible to holo call into a conversation if you are not near the quest giver, meaning one person can do handin's and pick up's for both people, though some convo options are not available if you holo in. But if for example one player waves away money as a reward in the dialogue all players lose it. It means that if you have 2 quest hubs one can go to one while the other to the other and it really feels like your working together rather than just being in the same room. Its a really nice mechanic tbh, one of the few things I think Bioware really hit on the head in this game.

If you go in as a pair you can basically do any quest even the 4 player ones. You get companions basically bumping up your group to 4 and companions can basically fill any roll.

If one of you rolls 1 healer and one person who can wear heavy armour either as a tank or dps you can even do some instances (operations) at low levels with just the 2 of you. I havent tried this at higher levels.

Despite this there are some story areas you MUST do alone, its not a huge problem as generally these all occur together (IE while you are doing yours you mate will be doing his 30 foot away) but this can lead to some annoying down time as they arnt always the same length. Having said this most areas are classified as "group" and even people without the quest can go in an help, they simply will not take part in any conversations and social points will not be rewarded.

By going as healer and tank you remove the problem of finding groups since there are always DPS around.

Feels very grindy, especially the bonus quests and many quest items/objects are bugged and are not looted/completed by all players, this is especially annoying since some of them have not insignificant respawn timers. Also the /follow function is broken so if one of you goes afk you might as well just stand there till you get back since youll just be standing around at the other end waiting otherwise.

The game overall, even on max graphics is average at best. PvP "should" work I "think" given some balancing but currently doesn't due to horrific bugs. Personally I dont think the UI is bad but Ive heard other people complain about it. I used a Razar Naga though so I dont really use the interface so I may not be the best judge.

This game has the advantage that its new so still isnt empty at low levels. Having said this I logged in for the first time in about 1.5 weeks a few days ago and the planet I was on only had 4 people on it. This was at lvl 39 (of 50) and was only a minor planet at in the middle of the day and picked up to 30 or so at 5 or 6 pm but considering it was 90+ just a few weeks before it might not be the best sign.

The talent system very rigid. You pick 1 or 4 classes, Knight, Consular, Trooper or Smuggler (the sith has 4 equivalent classes with different names). At level 10 you then pick 1 of 2 sub classes which unlock 3 trees. THIS IS PERMANENT and can never be changed. Usually, one tree is class specific with 2 unique to your sub class. All but 2 of the sub classes can perform 2 rolls (IE DPS and Healer, though not well at the same time). If your doing it right you should always go to the end of your chosen tree before specing out and while you can change trees later its really fuckin expensive and has no dual spec function.

ToR has a nice "Legacy" system, basically at a certain point in the story you will unlock a legacy name (of your choice) which is then applied to all characters of all levels you create on that server. Currently its only a name but we are told it will eventually get other benefits. It works on the idea that if there is one person of such prominent note from that family there would likely be more so you get a name that like them like brother or nephews. Its a really nice idea but has yet to be put to use.


Rift:

Has no real story to speak of, at least not that I really took part in and what it does have is sectioned by zone not overarching. But the zones are stunning. I really cant fault Rift its visuals. They get very cluster fuck in pvp, which basically doesnt function at all because you cant to who is doing what where and to whom, meaning people just just suddenly die and the only person who really knows who did it is the killer. The UI was a little annoying as you got one bar vertically on the right and then it just stacked bars at the bottom on top of each other. This "might" have now been fixed, I dont know.

There isnt really any instances to speak of that the game world does have "heroic" areas that you probably shouldnt go into alone but can probably take 2 man with 2 people. The rift and invasion systems were awesome when I was playing. It brought a lot of players together and at the click of a button auto groups you to allow for easy team work, it also promoted inter faction interactions because, especially in higher level areas people competed to take rifts. You also get some nice abilities that use shards to work, you can only have 3 shards at once, and the powers only work against rifts and rift monsters or to upgrade your hubs. In some cases this includes more guards and/or harder to capture in other it might free up a new quest (though some points are pointless to upgrade). The world itself is very dynamic because rifts and invasions of different elements count as hostile factions and WILL kill each other. Also minor questing hubs can be overtaken by the rift monsters meaning you have to fight to reclaim them. Patrolling guard for your faction are no push overs either and will fight hard to hold the roads from the invasions.

Now I will stress this was awesome AT THE TIME because I was there the week it opened on general sale so the world was full. If its empty, it loses a lot of that magic. Taking the Q hubs becomes annoying because often you might be the only person fighting for them and they arnt always easy to take and some of the rifts defiantly are no solo friendly requiring 5+ people to clear and invasion bosses can wipe groups of 20+ though Rift does have a scaling system where the more people in a given area from a unit the harder it gets, so it may still be doable.

The Talent system in rift is very dynamic. You pick one of 4 base classes, a calling, Warrior Rogue Mage or Cleric. Then as you level up you pick 3 talent trees from a pool of 8. You can issue points into these 3 trees AS YOU SEE FIT. As you progress down a tree you get the talent you talent into as well as progressing down the path of that tree which unlocks new abilities based on the number of points in that tree. There were when I was playing, several builds that didnt not go all the way down any one tree. This system allows so all sorts of weird and wonderful builds. Its also fairly easy to chop and change trees and you have 3 (I think) variations which you can have for minimal cost (Basically wow's dual spec but Tri).





In review...?

Wow its really hard to say. ToR is certainly built around the idea of small friend groups but tbh I think even as a pair youll just end up feeling like your grinding. Rift is more, or felt at the time, gear towards large dynamic world groups that come together for an event then dispersed, otherwise questing as a pair has no real effect on the game play other than making it easier.

If Rift is dead at low levels, Id say ToR I think. It might be worth ghosting over to the rift forums and asking what low level pop is like. No MMO is fun if its a ghost town because they are so big its clear your alone.

But, if Rift is still populus, I honelty think Id go back to Rift over Tor.

Its a really hard call though. Personally, wait for one of the new MMO's due out. You really havnt got much to lose by waiting and unlike Rift and ToR some of the new looking one actually might have some origonality in them. Tera, The Secret World, Planetside 2, GuildWars 2 and FireFall are coming relativly soon. Planetside and FireFall will even be F2P.

Up to you though. As an ex wow player, I just feel that all these new MMO's atm are just rehashings of a game that did it better. For all people slag wow, youd probably be better of there. Its really noobie friendly these days and leveling isnt so bad if you havnt done it 5 times already and there end game is proven, it works and it isnt going to die any time in the near future.


TLR

You asked for my opinion go read the post you lazy sods

 

[DanielBrown]

Haven't played SWTOR, but leveling with a friend in Rift was really fun. It's also a bonus on higher levels since you can duo the rifts if you've got classes that work well togeather(one having healer as an off spec should do the trick tbh).

Ack, I miss my rogue in Rift. Bard and Saboteur was the most fun I've had with a class in instances in MMOs so far. The community was too much like WoW though, so I was mainly soloing.

 

[Bostur]

Rift or SWTOR... I'd say Lotro maybe. Definately maybe.

It's a tough fight. They are both very generic WoW clones that don't excell in any areas. But still provide solid gameplay. SWTOR has a lot of 2-player content from the start, that would be a bonus for playing with a friend.
On the other hand Rift has a world that feels a little bit more alive and detailed. More butterflies to get distracted by (figuratively speaking), which can be nice to share with a friend.
The community in SWTOR is less annoying. PvP and instances is better in Rift. SWTOR has a cooler setting and story. Rift has better crafting and economy.

How about you try out Fallen Earth, thats something different. Maybe not better but definately different. ;-)

 

[bckai2003]

Rift or SWTOR... I'd say Lotro maybe. Definately maybe.

It's a tough fight. They are both very generic WoW clones that don't excell in any areas. But still provide solid gameplay. SWTOR has a lot of 2-player content from the start, that would be a bonus for playing with a friend.
On the other hand Rift has a world that feels a little bit more alive and detailed. More butterflies to get distracted by (figuratively speaking), which can be nice to share with a friend.
The community in SWTOR is less annoying. PvP and instances is better in Rift. SWTOR has a cooler setting and story. Rift has better crafting and economy.

How about you try out Fallen Earth, thats something different. Maybe not better but definately different. ;-)

Yeah, I have a lot of fun with LoTRO. I still log on from time to time. My buddy and I are more interested in Rift/SWTOR though. New and Shiny, you know what I mean? Although, admittedly, Rift is a year old now. There are so many options out there, so we'd just like to keep it between these two to keep our heads from exploding.

 

[Bostur]

Yeah, I have a lot of fun with LoTRO. I still log on from time to time. My buddy and I are more interested in Rift/SWTOR though. New and Shiny, you know what I mean? Although, admittedly, Rift is a year old now. There are so many options out there, so we'd just like to keep it between these two to keep our heads from exploding.

In your case the exact game probably doesn't matter much, what matters is a context to have fun together. New and shiny is as good an argument as any, so why not go with SWTOR while it still has an active community leveling. It can get a bit dull when everyone is max level.

SWTOR did put a lot of focus on being friendly to small groups. It was a surprise to me since most MMOs trend towards a single player focus.

 

[bckai2003]

@Talshere

Thanks for the input. That was really informative. You gave me a lot to think about.

 

[bckai2003]

In your case the exact game probably doesn't matter much, what matters is a context to have fun together. New and shiny is as good an argument as any, so why not go with SWTOR while it still has an active community leveling. It can get a bit dull when everyone is max level.

SWTOR did put a lot of focus on being friendly to small groups. It was a surprise to me since most MMOs trend towards a single player focus.

Good point. I think we are leaning towards SWTOR.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Good point. I think we are leaning towards SWTOR.

I strongly recommend TOR over Rift for co-op play.

The stories and quests are very co-op friendly, and as long as one of you is a healer, the 2-4 man heroics are quite doable as a pair, giving you a nice little challenge. You can even 2 man most of the flashpoints once they go a little green. Having a friend along makes the story content even more enjoyable, as you get a little extra boost of unique story via your friend's class specific story quests.

Rift is a really nicely made game, and has a lot of robust features. I'd say it's one of the best MMOs on the market from a design standpoint. But the lore is flat, and the questing feels fairly dull and routine. Probably the most damning thing from a co-op perspective is that one of Rift's greatest features...the drop-in public Rifts...are not very co-op friendly, as they require you to leave your group to merge with the public group. This was a huge irritation for me, having to constantly drop/reform group.

Rift is also in the throes of a declining population, whereas TOR is still in boom phase.

I'd take TOR over Rift for co-op play 99 times out of 100.

 

[bckai2003]

I'd take TOR over Rift for co-op play 99 times out of 100.

I do love the Star Wars canon, and I think my friend and I might stay more interested in the game considering the storylines.

But you're right, I do think that Rift's design is second to none. The game is just so smartly made, and the interface is just a pleasure to use.