Poll: Required Enlistment

[swolf]

All right, this is to all those Americans (or anybodyelse whose country doesn't require enlistment in to the miltary) out there (no offense everybody else). So, I heard that Israel requires at least one year of service in the Armed Forces from all of it's people (yes, that includes women as well). While America does have Selective Service (aka "The Draft") which all males must sign up for when they turn 18 (if you haven't done so and you at or over that age, you should because it's illegal not to). All right, so (without starting a flame war) debate your views on if America (or other country) should require a year of Military service from all of the people? Please, make valid points and don't just say "I don't wanna".

My personal opinion, I think it would be an interesting period of adjustment as they got it started but could have some advantages. Obviously, there's the increased military strength but, other than that, the military instills (or tries to) certain values that people should follow such as Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, and Personal Courage (those are the Army values), and teaches the important bits about firearm use and safety which should lead to a decrease in accidental firearm deaths.

EDIT: I'm kinda sad nobody has voted on the "Swolf for president" choice yet. *cries softly*. I wouldn't want that type of responsibility anyways...at least, not the recognition for it.

EDIT 2: Just wanted to say "thanks" to whoever voted on the "president" choice. And "thank you" to the others as well, it is appreciated.

EDIT 3: I must say that, while I do the advantages, I would not want a person beside me in combat who didn't want to be there. Just thought I'd say that before I get any more angry messages. I only started this to get people's opinions on the matter. Notice that I didn't say I thought it should happen, just that it would be interesting. I wanted to make that distinction clear. I didn't vote in the poll as I couldn't decide myself.

 

[WrongSprite]

Yeah, I'd love the UK to be more like Finland on this matter.

I'd like a system where every 18 year old not going to university does a years service.

 

[Luftwaffles]

Its called National Service back in Malaysia, random amount drawn. I know Singapore's is compulsory for all males when they hit 18. Same with South Korea.

I think its a good way to build character. Discipline, survival skills, confidence etc. Good way to find natural leaders. So yeah, its a good thing i think. I myself will be joining the Territorial Forces when the year ends.

 

[Cracktopus]

Well, being Finnish this is already in place here, as our military relies on this. And I support it 100%.
Not only does it teach people discipline and survival, it also shows them they're not the center of the world.

Something that everyone should do.

 

[Nunny]

Wish they would have it down here in Aus... would do alot of people good to have a year in the Army.

 

[Croix Sinistre]

I think compulsory service should exist in America, it would straighten out so many people that would otherwise never realize how good they have it as a civilian.

However...You stick a bunch of people in a room who dont want to be there and youre only going to cause problems for everyone including yourself, the reason why most people make it trough basic is because they wanted to be there (for some reason or another, not every serviceman is like "AMERICA, F**K YEAH!", and for whatever degree of that reason), yeah they might not like it, some try to fight it, but a vast majority realize that they can just suck it up and finish what they said they'd do.

Now, take every single able bodied male in the population and put them through it. Being gamers we all know what the stereotypical teenager/young male is like and getting them to do something that they absolutely don't want to do is pulling teeth. It would end up being like prison. Yes, the idea works, put someone away for a bit, they'll learn their lesson right? Same with the military, you would think that if everyone was put through it most of them would be improved somehow, but this wouldnt be the case.

Also, no one would probably every realize that basic isnt hard. The military isnt hard. Millions of people have done it before, and you can too. Its not like you're being forced to go to ranger school or SAS training.

So, the point is that while it would be a good idea on paper, in practice it wouldnt bear much fruit. Somehow i feel that the repeal of "dont ask, dont tell" is the same way. We would all wish that the military would 'open their minds' and accept gay soldiers, but that just wont be the case. Look at how long it took the military (and the public) to accept blacks in the military...and look how we still stand on race, does anyone honestly think that the military is going to be totally cool with gays instantaneously? or even within the next ten years? But now im getting off-topic.

 

[Mr Cwtchy]

No, because I don't want anything to do with the military.

Ever.

 

[Aux]

No, because I don't want anything to do with the military.

Ever.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[LordOmnit]

In the United States nowadays I think that it wouldn't work out. Sure, we had the draft in the past (trust me, it would take more or less WWIII to bring that back into more than just a formality you sign up for) and while there were some problem children that said they weren't going to fight who got a little while in jail or some manual labor, it's never been to the point it is nowadays in the U.S. where I know a large number of people who think ill of militaries in general. I don't generally take much stock in their words because I was born and raised by military parents (I might not seems much like it, however), but it's clear that there would be a much larger uproar from the more... how shall we say not midwest and south areas of the nation that there was against the draft for, say, WWII.
As for whether or not I think it should be done rather than just if I think it would work... Well, my political views are far more on the socialist side of things and I believe in a strong government over people's choice. Also I like the military.

Just a note on your thing about Israel, there is actually a group that doesn't have to enlist. The Charedim, a very, very devout sect of Judaism.

 

[Croix Sinistre]

No, because I don't want anything to do with the military.

Ever.

My thoughts exactly.

So, for the sake of the thread, how would you guys act when told you would be drafted into the military? Shipped off for basic? told you will be going to Iraq/Afghanistan for six months?

 

[swolf]

I think compulsory service should exist in America, it would straighten out so many people that would otherwise never realize how good they have it as a civilian.

However...You stick a bunch of people in a room who dont want to be there and youre only going to cause problems for everyone including yourself, the reason why most people make it trough basic is because they wanted to be there (for some reason or another, not every serviceman is like "AMERICA, F**K YEAH!", and for whatever degree of that reason), yeah they might not like it, some try to fight it, but a vast majority realize that they can just suck it up and finish what they said they'd do.

Now, take every single able bodied male in the population and put them through it. Being gamers we all know what the stereotypical teenager/young male is like and getting them to do something that they absolutely don't want to do is pulling teeth. It would end up being like prison. Yes, the idea works, put someone away for a bit, they'll learn their lesson right? Same with the military, you would think that if everyone was put through it most of them would be improved somehow, but this wouldnt be the case.

Also, no one would probably every realize that basic isnt hard. The military isnt hard. Millions of people have done it before, and you can too. Its not like you're being forced to go to ranger school or SAS training.

So, the point is that while it would be a good idea on paper, in practice it wouldnt bear much fruit. Somehow i feel that the repeal of "dont ask, dont tell" is the same way. We would all wish that the military would 'open their minds' and accept gay soldiers, but that just wont be the case. Look at how long it took the military (and the public) to accept blacks in the military...and look how we still stand on race, does anyone honestly think that the military is going to be totally cool with gays instantaneously? or even within the next ten years? But now im getting off-topic.

While I will agree that the military wasn't as hard as I expected it to be, there are parts that are hard, even in Basic. For example, the 15k ruck march over hills with a heavy ruck sack wasn't what I would call "easy". Also, I've seen people get serious injuries from it including a pulled (the "I can't walk" type pulled, not "this kinda hurts") hamstring, a dislocated shoulder (happened to me after falling about 8 feet), something screwed up in my knee (from another bad fall...keep in mind, I'm not accident prone), and a person who broke his femur (that big bone in your leg) and had to get discharged because it wouldn't heal properly. Other than disagreeing with your "it's not hard" point, I see your points.

 

[thenumberthirteen]

Absolutely not! In times of great war then maybe forced enlistment may be needed, but in peacetime never. That is far beyond the boundaries of what a government should do. To force people to fight against their will to either bolster their fighting force or, far worse, to instill some sort of moral lesson is something I cannot stand for. It is an impingement on basic freedoms and the decision to risk your life for something is one that should not be forced on a person.

 

[Mr Cwtchy]

No, because I don't want anything to do with the military.

Ever.

My thoughts exactly.

So, for the sake of the thread, how would you guys act when told you would be drafted into the military? Shipped off for basic? told you will be going to Iraq/Afghanistan for six months?

I'd tell them to go fuck themselves(obviously without swear words). Would that land me in prison? Possibly, but I'll take that option over killing people/being prepared to kill people/helping someone else kill people any day.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against people who DO make that choice, but I sure as hell am not.

 

[Croix Sinistre]

While I will agree that the military wasn't as hard as I expected it to be, there are parts that are hard, even in Basic. For example, the 15k ruck march over hills with a heavy ruck sack wasn't what I would call "easy". Also, I've seen people get serious injuries from it including a pulled (the "I can't walk" type pulled, not "this kinda hurts") hamstring, a dislocated shoulder (happened to me after falling about 8 feet), something screwed up in my knee (from another bad fall...keep in mind, I'm not accident prone), and a person who broke his femur (that big bone in your leg) and had to get discharged because it wouldn't heal properly. Other than disagreeing with your "it's not hard" point, I see your points.

I never said it was easy, i cracked a rib in basic and never got it looked, at, every pushup, ever sit up, every heavy breath hurt quite a bit. I went to FT. Sill where the summer is 100+ degrees every day during the summer. We had to ruck march to every class, every range, every field exercise. I know how hard i can be.

But i am saying that its tolerable, out of my entire battery, only two guys didnt make it, for medical reasons, not because they were simply weak or anything. And tens of units my size graduate basic (from all services) yearly.

 

[Rylot]

At least in the States there is a need for it. Forcing people who don't want to be there to go through it would only cause problems. If you want to serve then Kudos, but no need for a draft.

 

[HotFezz8]

no. its called conscription, israel does it becuase its a tiny state which has alienated every country within 100 miles of it, and if it were to weaken at all it would be invaded and destroyed within about a week.

the uk, us, hell almost all of europe doesn't need conscripted armies becuase we are powerful enough to not be threatened. finland has national service becuase of their experiences in the second world war.

generally i believe most of the arguments against conscription; the british army is amongst the best in the world, and certainly british infatry are the best in the world becuase theu are all volunteers. a conscript has to be forced into enduring hardships, and will not stand as long, as opposed to a volunteer who knows they put themselves in this position.

full time armies will hate the idea of suddenly needing to nurse maid thousands of men who have no commitment to being there.

the young criminals of uyour society will suddenly be organised and trained to kill or maim, and have some knowledge of military and police tactics, and weapon handling skills.

and you realise they would be sent to afghansitan? other wise what the f*ck else are they going to be doing in the ARMY. and how do you explain to some family why you forced their 18 year old son who had his whole life ahead of him to go to a foreign country he knew nothing about and die?

 

[swolf]

While I will agree that the military wasn't as hard as I expected it to be, there are parts that are hard, even in Basic. For example, the 15k ruck march over hills with a heavy ruck sack wasn't what I would call "easy". Also, I've seen people get serious injuries from it including a pulled (the "I can't walk" type pulled, not "this kinda hurts") hamstring, a dislocated shoulder (happened to me after falling about 8 feet), something screwed up in my knee (from another bad fall...keep in mind, I'm not accident prone), and a person who broke his femur (that big bone in your leg) and had to get discharged because it wouldn't heal properly. Other than disagreeing with your "it's not hard" point, I see your points.

I never said it was easy, i cracked a rib in basic and never got it looked, at, every pushup, ever sit up, every heavy breath hurt quite a bit. I went to FT. Sill where the summer is 100+ degrees every day during the summer. We had to ruck march to every class, every range, every field exercise. I know how hard i can be.

But i am saying that its tolerable, out of my entire battery, only two guys didnt make it, for medical reasons, not because they were simply weak or anything. And tens of units my size graduate basic (from all services) yearly.

True. Thank you for your continued service. I thought I was talking to a civi before who just thought the military was weak, sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Icecoldcynic]

Considering I have a medical condition where I'm not allowed to be in the army anyway, it doesn't affect me that much. That said, I still think it's a terrible idea. Forcing people to join the army, even for just a year is taking away their freedom of choice, and that's a huge nono.

 

[N_of_the_dead]

You know i think its a good idea to an extent but at the same time a bad one to an extent as well. I'm currently studying in japan and one of my class mates is from Germany where they do something just like this but you first have to pass a health screening and such to see if you can even get in and it also offers an alternative for those who don't want to fight in which you essentially become an orderly if my memory is correct. hell he even told me if you had a good enough reason or enough money you could avoid the whole thing. though i can be wrong on some parts since this was a while ago he told me this and English is a second language for him so there may have been some errors in what he said and what he intended to say.

 

[steevee]

I think National Service is a good idea, but perhaps, not too military?
I mean, theres lots of other stuff that you can do to help the countrey, and in this day and age, we don't need a huge standing army.
Not sure what else, but there are plenty of roads that need paving, ditches digging. Obviously, other things as well, but it takes 18 months to get the average soldier up to fighting fit and trained from civvy on the street, so just a year wouldn't relly be practical.