Poll: So... are singers still musicians?

[Trivun]

Simple question - do you think a singer should be counted as a 'musician'?

Bit of context is probably needed here. My brother and I have had this debate for a while now. I've always been firmly of the belief that a singer is still a musician, and thus you can still call singers who play no instruments (such as most pop bands, and so on) musicians. My brother, on the other hand, thinks that the term 'musician' should only be reserved for those who actually play an instrument. He plays guitar and ukulele, for the record, while I'm planning on learning the drums as soon as I'm not living with flatmates anymore who will probably object to me banging away on drums regularly. My view on the subject is linked to the fact that I feel that singing is making music in itself, and that being a musician is all about making music. A good singer uses their own voice as an instrument, and it's just as important as any other part of the music-making process.

So, what are your thoughts on this, Escapist community? Should singers be counted as musicians, or should they have to play an instrument to be considered so?

[small]I'd be very interested as well to hear the thoughts of BonsaiK on this matter, or indeed anyone else who happens to be involved in the music industry in any way, shape or form... [/small]

 

[II2]

A capella?

 

[Saelune]

The key word of musician is music. So unless singing aint music...

 

[infohippie]

Well, I think every singer should know how to play an instrument, even if it's not their regular thing. In fact, every person should know how to play an instrument, even if they're not very good.
And yeah, I think a trained singer should count as a musician even without being able to play. I do not think this category covers rappers, I don't think rap qualifies as singing, it's just speaking rhythmically.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

It depends on the singer. Are they actually invested in the craft, practicing it, learning the basics of theory, and when working in groups, actually hammering things out? If so, they're a musician. On the other hand, if all they do is sing karaoke on weekends, they're no more of a musician than a guy who plays the drums on Guitar Hero.

(Speaking as a musician who was six credits out from an AA in music when he switched majors. My major instrument was the classical guitar, but I was also involved in the concert choir and the Vocal Jazz Ensemble. Everyone in both of those groups was a true musician, especially the members of the Vocal Jazz Ensemble.)

 

[Gaiseric]

Yes, as long as they don't make my ears bleed.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

So, what are your thoughts on this, Escapist community? Should singers be counted as musicians, or should they have to play an instrument to be considered so?

Musician, by definition, includes singers. The human voice is an instrument, according to musical theory and academia.

 

[AbstractStream]

Of course, your vocals are your instruments. Even if all you can do is sing, you're still a musician. Maybe not a "well-rounded" one as some might say, but nevertheless, still a musician.

 

[Klarinette]

Context is definitely necessary. If they don't write their own music, are completely auto-tuned, and don't even play with a band (although this isn't mandatory if you can actually sing), then no.

If none of those things apply and the artist is actually talented, then sure.

 

[The Rockerfly]

It depends really, if by singer you mean someone in a choir then yes. Speaking from personal experience there is a lot of training, preparation and practising you have to do if you want to keep your voice to a good standard. If you want to write there is a lot you have to learn as well, doubling the 5ths, parallel octaves, cadences and just generally what the human voice can achieve. It is tough being a choir singer, especially if you are in a glee club where you have to dance as well.

If you are referring to the work of modern pop stars then I would probably say no. They don't write their own music, autotune and pre recordings do everything, what musical skill is needed left of them? They are just dancers and a pretty face to put in music videos

 

[o_O]

So, uh, he's invalidating all lyrical music ever created with this logic? How completely stupid.

 

[Bon_Clay]

Context is definitely necessary. If they don't write their own music, are completely auto-tuned, and don't even play with a band (although this isn't mandatory if you can actually sing), then no.

If none of those things apply and the artist is actually talented, then sure.

I'd pretty much agree with this stance. If you are making music you are a musician. Which is more than can be said about the talentless shills in today's mainstream pop and hip hop.

 

[MisterGobbles]

Absolutely. Singing is just as important as playing any other instrument. I have more respect for some singers than I do for people who play instruments.

 

[GiantRaven]

And yeah, I think a trained singer should count as a musician even without being able to play. I do not think this category covers rappers, I don't think rap qualifies as singing, it's just speaking rhythmically.

I guess drummers aren't musicians either then, what with their working purely within a rhythmic domain.

Oh wait, that makes no sense.

 

[DustyDrB]

I say yes. And I'm not even gonna limit that to choral or "trained" singers.
I'll include things like this

As well as this


As well as the many acapella musicians and...the whole range.

 

[xdom125x]

It depends on the singer. Are they actually invested in the craft, practicing it, learning the basics of theory, and when working in groups, actually hammering things out? If so, they're a musician. On the other hand, if all they do is sing karaoke on weekends, they're no more of a musician than a guy who plays the drums on Guitar Hero.

(Speaking as a musician who was six credits out from an AA in music when he switched majors. My major instrument was the classical guitar, but I was also involved in the concert choir and the Vocal Jazz Ensemble. Everyone in both of those groups was a true musician, especially the members of the Vocal Jazz Ensemble.)

I like your definition, especially the fact that it requires skill/practice.

Yeah, so basically anybody can be a singer but only a sub-group of those people are musicians. I think a musician is somebody that can play an instrument (vocals included) with skill, as well.

Still think rappers only meet those requirements by the skin of their teeth grillz.

 

[infohippie]

And yeah, I think a trained singer should count as a musician even without being able to play. I do not think this category covers rappers, I don't think rap qualifies as singing, it's just speaking rhythmically.

I guess drummers aren't musicians either then, what with their working purely within a rhythmic domain.

Oh wait, that makes no sense.

Well... Some drummers? They really are no more than the "hit-things-with-sticks" equivalent of rappers. But most drummers are genuine musicians, their work involves genuine art. Performing rap is little more than speaking which is why I am discounting it. Writing rap on the other hand, I would say qualifies as poetry. Not any kind of poetry I'd like, obviously, but I think it still counts.

 

[NeutralDrow]

The voice is an instrument. End of discussion.

...is what I would say if I were arrogant enough.

And for this moment, I most certainly am.