Poll: Support characters loyalty Piss off or Positive

[Kroden]

Is it just me or does the KotOR II style of character loyalty seem a bit pointless? In the end they are either going to support you or leave you. Their loyalty is irrelevant. in ME 2 it makes sense to gain their trust. So what i'm saying is character loyalty really smart or should it not be in games?

 

[SammiYin]

How else would you define loyalty if it wasn't measured in sticking by you at a crucial moment? Unless you mean the result is the same regardless of the characters loyalty...in which case I'm being stupid.

 

[Camaranth]

you pretty much covered it in your opening statement. If it works in context of the story then yeah it's great, adds more depth and frankly the characters make a lot more sense. Why would a virtuous flower child just accept my bad-ass-piss-me-off-and-I'll-shoot-you-in-the-face attitude and follow me regardless with no opinion?

In some ways it strikes me as adding additional value to replay which is already there in Biowares black and white you are good or you are evil universe. I could never get the hang of it in KotORII but I like the idea,

 

[SwimmingRock]

Done well it's really smart. However, everything's crap if it's poorly implemented. ME2 is still a bit too vague for me. I'd like (you know, in the mystical world where games cater to my every whim and coding takes no effort) a system where loyalty is defined more along a scale. DA:O did something like that, but I didn't notice much gameplay result aside from increasing their stats.

Elder Scrolls occasionally allow new information or events based on how much somebody likes you, but there was too much manipulation possible there (bribes/magic) for it to feel earned or weighty.

Basically, take the nuance of DA:O (especially individual conversations and events affecting loyalty), add the necessity/gravitas of ally loyalty in ME and content that needs to be 'earned' in-game (diverging paths are a plus, imo) and I'd be quite happy. Unfortunately, I've been quite put off Bioware games lately, so I may actually miss the game that does this.

 

[Sixcess]

It's a good idea, in theory, but I'm playing through Mass Effect 2 for the first time at the moment and find myself resenting the way the loyalty missions are set up. They just feel very obviously like a game mechanic, rather than a natural part of the story. Then again, ME2 feels very episodic in general, far more so than the previous game.

 

[Kroden]

DA:O did something like that, but I didn't notice much gameplay result aside from increasing their stats.

I've played through DA:O and i don't even care about their loyalty.

Then again, ME2 feels very episodic in general, far more so than the previous game.

I think that's how it was meant to be. a clearly defined start and finish.

 

[DustyDrB]

Hey, I just finished Knights of the Old Republic II again last night.

There are other benefits to gaining companions' loyalties in that game, though. Benefits like being able to pick from six different Jedi to come along with you. Handmaiden as a Guardian and Atton/Mira as a Jedi Gunslinger along with me, the Jedi Weapons Master with 40+ Strength were unstoppable on the hardest difficulty. No one left me during the game, though.

Dragon Age: Origins also gives you a bonus for getting party members to like you (Attribute bonuses based on their class. For example, I think Leliana gets a Dexterity bonus).

I like this game mechanic. It adds to the experience for me, giving more meaning to interaction.

 

[Gennadios]

Loyalty quests give you side quests that don't involve solving marital disputes and retrieving farmers lunch money from bandits when you should be saving the f***ing world. I'd like more of those than the alternatives.

 

[T_ConX]

I didn't hate the loyalty/influence system.

I hated how it conflicted with the Light/Dark Side morally system...

One touted feature of the system was that you could shift a party members alignment towards your own by having strong influence over them, causing their appearance to shift as well...

Unfortunately, no matter how you shift them, the writing would still script them as their default persona's, which would often conflict with their alignment.

Typical example: You manage to build some influence with Atton. You spend some time without him in the party, during which you decide to throw some space puppies off of a space bridge. Your influence causes Atton to shift to the dark side.

Later, while Atton is in your party, you decide to blow up a space bus full of space nuns, an action that earns the displeasure of a very Sith-looking Atton. He protests "No man! We're supposed to be good people!" as he sheds a tear from one of his soulless eyes.


[i]You've changed man... You've changed...[/i]

Other then that, my other major problem with loyalty in most games is how I can often lock myself out of certain quests or other goodies by not saying what a party member wants to hear, especially when there never seems to be a right answer. I'm looking in your direction, Morrigan...

ME2 did a mostly good job. It makes sense that characters would say "Suicide mission? I'm okay with that, but I have this one issue from my past that I would like to resolve before I put my life on the line." On the flip side, I have trouble understanding how...

[spoiler="Mass Effect 2 Spoilers"]...Tali not being able to visit the Flotilla leads to her getting shot in the face or Samara not completing her mission results her Biotic field failing.[/spoiler]

 

[Sixcess]

ME2 did a mostly good job. It makes sense that characters would say "Suicide mission? I'm okay with that, but I have this one issue from my past that I would like to resolve before I put my life on the line." On the flip side, I have trouble understanding how...

Spoiler: Mass Effect 2 Spoilers

...Tali not being able to visit the Flotilla leads to her getting shot in the face or Samara not completing her mission results her Biotic field failing.

The suicide mission doesn't seem to be that clearcut. I just finished my first attempt at it and...

Spoiler

3 team members who hadn't had their missions completed were killed when the Normandy was taking fire on the way in. Then in the base Garrus took the shot in the face, Grunt got eaten by the swarm and Mordin got shot as well - and I'd completed those three missions successfully! I can't remember the last time I've been quite that shocked by a narrative development in a video game.

Oh, and everyone else died as well, except for Miranda. Including Shepard. Yeah, I think I'll be taking another run at that...

 

[ZeroMachine]

Spoiler: Mass Effect 2 Spoilers

...Tali not being able to visit the Flotilla leads to her getting shot in the face or Samara not completing her mission results her Biotic field failing.

It's a morale thing...

... I guess.

Personally, I love the idea of companion loyalty in games. It just needs to be done better.