Poll: sympathy for the devil

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2012 Wont Happen

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Picture this:

You are a peaceful inhabitant of an Afghan village. You have never been any threat to anyone, particularly to the U.S., situated almost as far as physically possible from you, in your life. Now imagine that, as you are going about your perpetual struggle to survive, you hear the roar of a U.S. fighter jet flying over your village, and a bomb is dropped killing several other peaceful people that you knew and loved. The explanation- the United States of America, having no just right or reason for their continued occupation of your homeland, suspected that there may be terrorists living within your village.

Now picture this. Four days later, as the bodies still lay strewn across the streets as the people have yet to be able to properly bury their dead, a group of other Afghans come into the village with pamphlets. They claim to be fighting to drive the American murderers, who had so recently unjustly slain their families, from Afghanistan, and return Afghan tradition. These men are recruiters for the Taliban's forces. They offer you a fighting chance against the Americans- the alternative being but to wait to be the next killed by the bombs. They hate the Americans, as do you after your village's recent encounter with them. Would you not be tempted to join them?

Let me make this clear- I do NOT support the Taliban. Its ideology is that of authoritarian religious extremism, sexist oppression, and homophobia. However, to these people, so desperate to be rid of intruders in their country- I can feel no anger. If a nation had attacked my hometown, killing those I loved, I would be happy to join the first group that was organized against them- regardless of clashes of ideology. While I do not generally prescribe to the thought that the enemy of my enemy is to be my friend, in such a case of absolute desperation- I would put aside my usual aversion to the theory.

So, my question to the Escapist is this- if you were an Afghani citizen who's neighbors, friends and families had just been slaughtered by U.S. forces- can you honestly say that you wouldn't join the insurgency?
 

2012 Wont Happen

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Gormourn said:
I do not agree with the title. Considering the stench of Christianity in Western culture, the word "devil" will carry a negative connotations in most cases. And the OP doesn't deserve to be branded like that.

Anyways, I don't know. I'd try to flee, most likely. Although fighting back is not such a crazy option, a pretty rational choice if you've had that shit happen to you.
Unfortunately its not letting me change it. I said it as a reference to the Rolling Stones song of the same name and as a reference to the Wests viewing of insurgents as "devils". But I do regret the name now as nobody showed up hahaha
 

Amnestic

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I'd probably join. Probably die in the following fights as well, but I would be fighting for what I believed was the correct thing to do - exacting vengeance upon those who murdered my friends and family in cold blood.
 

2012 Wont Happen

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Gormourn said:
2012 Wont Happen said:
Gormourn said:
I do not agree with the title. Considering the stench of Christianity in Western culture, the word "devil" will carry a negative connotations in most cases. And the OP doesn't deserve to be branded like that.

Anyways, I don't know. I'd try to flee, most likely. Although fighting back is not such a crazy option, a pretty rational choice if you've had that shit happen to you.
Unfortunately its not letting me change it. I said it as a reference to the Rolling Stones song of the same name and as a reference to the Wests viewing of insurgents as "devils". But I do regret the name now as nobody showed up hahaha
Heh, maybe they'll come... Some threads are getting way too much attention tonight... but at least it's not all last year's zombie this, zombie that - although I'm pretty sure I've seen a few threads like that pop up.

Good luck getting more responses, it's an interesting idea for a thread.
Issues such as this are pretty important to discuss, considering how media often paints anyone "on the other side" as evil child-eating bastards.
The Anti-Flag song Anatomy of Your Enemy does a good job at highlighting such media dissemination:

 

2012 Wont Happen

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Amnestic said:
I'd probably join. Probably die in the following fights as well, but I would be fighting for what I believed was the correct thing to do - exacting vengeance upon those who murdered my friends and family in cold blood.
This is how I would act as well.
 

Woodsey

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Do you not think that this is what happens on many sides of almost every war to have ever taken place?

The logic however, would seem a little off in your example. Yes you might want to fight back, but you're then proving their claims for invading.
 

Skeleon

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The question you pose in your OP is very important. It's easy to dehumanize your enemies through the media and all too often we forget that those we call terrorists are human, too.
 

firedfns13

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What about the taliban thats killing innocents as well?
What paints them as such a great alternative to Americans?
Do you ignore bringing water and schools and other things that American forces have done?
 

Manicotti

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2012 Wont Happen said:
Gormourn said:
I do not agree with the title. Considering the stench of Christianity in Western culture, the word "devil" will carry a negative connotations in most cases. And the OP doesn't deserve to be branded like that.

Anyways, I don't know. I'd try to flee, most likely. Although fighting back is not such a crazy option, a pretty rational choice if you've had that shit happen to you.
Unfortunately its not letting me change it. I said it as a reference to the Rolling Stones song of the same name and as a reference to the Wests viewing of insurgents as "devils". But I do regret the name now as nobody showed up hahaha
Personally, I adore the title. Well-played.

When i saw the title I thought we were going to have some pseudo-religious discussion on the actual devil. I had a whole response ready about how the first time I felt sorry for Satan was when I read Paradise Lost, and now basically pity his essential unemployment because humanity is so good at destroying itself without his help.

But yeah, I'd fight out of revenge too.
 

2012 Wont Happen

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Hardcore_gamer said:
2012 Wont Happen said:
Picture this:

You are a peaceful inhabitant of an Afghan village. You have never been any threat to anyone, particularly to the U.S., situated almost as far as physically possible from you, in your life. Now imagine that, as you are going about your perpetual struggle to survive, you hear the roar of a U.S. fighter jet flying over your village, and a bomb is dropped killing several other peaceful people that you knew and loved. The explanation- the United States of America, having no just right or reason for their continued occupation of your homeland, suspected that there may be terrorists living within your village.

Now picture this. Four days later, as the bodies still lay strewn across the streets as the people have yet to be able to properly bury their dead, a group of other Afghans come into the village with pamphlets. They claim to be fighting to drive the American murderers, who had so recently unjustly slain their families, from Afghanistan, and return Afghan tradition. These men are recruiters for the Taliban's forces. They offer you a fighting chance against the Americans- the alternative being but to wait to be the next killed by the bombs. They hate the Americans, as do you after your village's recent encounter with them. Would you not be tempted to join them?

Let me make this clear- I do NOT support the Taliban. Its ideology is that of authoritarian religious extremism, sexist oppression, and homophobia. However, to these people, so desperate to be rid of intruders in their country- I can feel no anger. If a nation had attacked my hometown, killing those I loved, I would be happy to join the first group that was organized against them- regardless of clashes of ideology. While I do not generally prescribe to the thought that the enemy of my enemy is to be my friend, in such a case of absolute desperation- I would put aside my usual aversion to the theory.

So, my question to the Escapist is this- if you were an Afghani citizen who's neighbors, friends and families had just been slaughtered by U.S. forces- can you honestly say that you wouldn't join the insurgency?
This has bias all over it.

2012 Wont Happen said:
The explanation- the United States of America, having no just right or reason for their continued occupation of your homeland
And you base this on what?
You feel it to be biased as it is written from the perspective of those that you undoubtedly view as "the enemy". However, when American mass-media would portray these same people, fighting to rid themselves of injustices perpetrated by an occupying empire, as devils, you would not question.

I base it on the fact that no good will come of further occupation of Afghanistan.

Osama Bin Ladin- either dead or long gone.

The Taliban- weak: but growing stronger as we continue our occupation.

9/11- killed maybe a 30th the number of civilians that WE have slaughtered in our war.
 

Berethond

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2012 Wont Happen said:
Picture this:

You are a peaceful inhabitant of an Afghan village. You have never been any threat to anyone, particularly to the U.S., situated almost as far as physically possible from you, in your life. Now imagine that, as you are going about your perpetual struggle to survive, you hear the roar of a U.S. fighter jet flying over your village, and a bomb is dropped killing several other peaceful people that you knew and loved. The explanation- the United States of America, having no just right or reason for their continued occupation of your homeland, suspected that there may be terrorists living within your village.

Now picture this. Four days later, as the bodies still lay strewn across the streets as the people have yet to be able to properly bury their dead, a group of other Afghans come into the village with pamphlets. They claim to be fighting to drive the American murderers, who had so recently unjustly slain their families, from Afghanistan, and return Afghan tradition. These men are recruiters for the Taliban's forces. They offer you a fighting chance against the Americans- the alternative being but to wait to be the next killed by the bombs. They hate the Americans, as do you after your village's recent encounter with them. Would you not be tempted to join them?

Let me make this clear- I do NOT support the Taliban. Its ideology is that of authoritarian religious extremism, sexist oppression, and homophobia. However, to these people, so desperate to be rid of intruders in their country- I can feel no anger. If a nation had attacked my hometown, killing those I loved, I would be happy to join the first group that was organized against them- regardless of clashes of ideology. While I do not generally prescribe to the thought that the enemy of my enemy is to be my friend, in such a case of absolute desperation- I would put aside my usual aversion to the theory.

So, my question to the Escapist is this- if you were an Afghani citizen who's neighbors, friends and families had just been slaughtered by U.S. forces- can you honestly say that you wouldn't join the insurgency?
But that's retarded. The United States doesn't bomb villages, and they have to confirm targets at least ten times before firing. It's the Taliban who use the citizens as meat shields. The citizens know this.
 

2012 Wont Happen

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Berethond said:
2012 Wont Happen said:
Picture this:

You are a peaceful inhabitant of an Afghan village. You have never been any threat to anyone, particularly to the U.S., situated almost as far as physically possible from you, in your life. Now imagine that, as you are going about your perpetual struggle to survive, you hear the roar of a U.S. fighter jet flying over your village, and a bomb is dropped killing several other peaceful people that you knew and loved. The explanation- the United States of America, having no just right or reason for their continued occupation of your homeland, suspected that there may be terrorists living within your village.

Now picture this. Four days later, as the bodies still lay strewn across the streets as the people have yet to be able to properly bury their dead, a group of other Afghans come into the village with pamphlets. They claim to be fighting to drive the American murderers, who had so recently unjustly slain their families, from Afghanistan, and return Afghan tradition. These men are recruiters for the Taliban's forces. They offer you a fighting chance against the Americans- the alternative being but to wait to be the next killed by the bombs. They hate the Americans, as do you after your village's recent encounter with them. Would you not be tempted to join them?

Let me make this clear- I do NOT support the Taliban. Its ideology is that of authoritarian religious extremism, sexist oppression, and homophobia. However, to these people, so desperate to be rid of intruders in their country- I can feel no anger. If a nation had attacked my hometown, killing those I loved, I would be happy to join the first group that was organized against them- regardless of clashes of ideology. While I do not generally prescribe to the thought that the enemy of my enemy is to be my friend, in such a case of absolute desperation- I would put aside my usual aversion to the theory.

So, my question to the Escapist is this- if you were an Afghani citizen who's neighbors, friends and families had just been slaughtered by U.S. forces- can you honestly say that you wouldn't join the insurgency?
But that's retarded. The United States doesn't bomb villages, and they have to confirm targets at least ten times before firing. It's the Taliban who use the citizens as meat shields. The citizens know this.
Really? Because every time we DO bomb a village (which we do), that area becomes an absolute hotbed of Taliban recruitment. By killing the few "terrorists" who might be killed in the village- we create many more.
 

ReincarnatedFTP

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Initially I'd join the Taliban. However, regardless of my view of America, assuming I figure out they're just as bad, with the addition of being a bunch of religiously conservative fuckwads I'm just going to flee the country and try to live peacefully somewhere. Maybe I'll sneak into Russia or find my way to Western European country where I can get an education and a job.
 

2012 Wont Happen

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Woodsey said:
Do you not think that this is what happens on many sides of almost every war to have ever taken place?

The logic however, would seem a little off in your example. Yes you might want to fight back, but you're then proving their claims for invading.
You are not proving them right, you are resisting their already existing injustices.
 

2012 Wont Happen

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ReincarnatedFTP said:
Initially I'd join the Taliban. However, regardless of my view of America, assuming I figure out they're just as bad, with the addition of being a bunch of religiously conservative fuckwads I'm just going to flee the country and try to live peacefully somewhere. Maybe I'll sneak into Russia or find my way to Western European country where I can get an education and a job.
interesting plan

and nice profile pick

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