Poll: Taking criticism of large groups personally.

[Doclector]

Allow me to use a story to explain. I got up from my nap in my designated weekend of zero productivity, and went on the internet. I went to cracked to see whether today's articles had been posted.

They had. One of them was about the whole "fake fangirls" issue.

My reaction wasn't good.


See, this recent drive for gender equality in the nerd community is starting to get to me. Not that I hate women, I generally hate sexism, racism, and a variety of other "isms". Several of my friends could be considered "nerd girls". But recently, it feels like I can't open a webpage without being assaulted by some fresh outcry against sexist nerds. Deep down inside, I know it isn't aimed at me. I'm doing fine. But every time I see it, I still feel like some incredibly angry feminist just leaped out my laptop, stamped on my balls, and screamed "YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF, YOU PIG!".

It's a problem I always had. I always hated it when the entire class in school was given a telling off because of the actions of a few. There's very few british newspapers I respect because of their constant stories about my generation being a bunch of arseholes. I have a long history of hearing negative things aimed only at those actually doing something wrong and shouting back "I DIDN'T DO NUT'N, ASSHOLE!" like I was being personally accused of something.

So, TLR, do you feel bad about criticism towards a group of people you belong to, even when it doesn't really apply to you?

 

[repeating integers]

Oh, it's common - human nature, I'd go so fa as to say. As far as I know, the only real solution is to forcefully suppress the irrational feeling of being insulted.

 

[dyre]

Ouch, which article was that? I only saw the Jimquisition thing on fake nerd girls, and I can't say that one felt anything like an angry feminist.

Anyway, I think you're talking about two different things here. With the nerd girl thing, you're irrationally feeling insulted at criticism not directed to you, but in the classroom example, your response is perfectly understandable, because you, as a member of your class, are being criticized for something you didn't do. As for the generation thing, our generation is full of assholes. It's just that all the previous generations were too.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Despite being a geek, I never thought the (absolutely appropriate) backlash against the (absolutely ridiculous) fake geek girl "controversy" applied to me in the slightest. And I was a geek before most of you were geeks. I was a geek in the EIGHTIES. A dungeons and dragons playing, teenage mutant turtle loving, skinny, awkward, geek. I didn't have to worry about girls dressing up as my favorite characters ironically when they didn't really understand the lore (oh the horror!). I had to worry about girls treating my interests like a communicable disease. From my late teens through my twenties, I was happy to find girlfriends who TOLERATED my hobby, let alone embraced it. I saw male friends who enjoyed gaming putting it aside forever because their girlfriends didn't like dating "little boys with silly toys". Now that I'm in my thirties, I have a younger girlfriend who grew up with gaming, and actually enjoys it. She geeks out about things with me. At no point was I ever suspicious of her. At no point did I think "you cannot have this, because you did not suffer for it". I don't care if you were born suckling at the teat of geek or if you just saw a Skyrim commercial on television and want to cosplay as sexy Dovahkiin because you like attention. It's not really any of my fucking business either way, is it, why you do things? You like a thing I like? Cool! Let's have a chat.

So no, that didn't bother me in the slightest. OT though, yes, overly aggressive generalizations will get my back up, whether I am part of that group or not. I might take it slightly more personally if I'm a member of the group being insulted, but I'm extremely irritated either way. It's intellectually lazy and it's fertile ground for a lot of extremely damaging prejudices.

 

[Phasmal]

Despite being a geek, I never thought the (absolutely appropriate) backlash against the (absolutely ridiculous) fake geek girl "controversy" applied to me in the slightest. And I was a geek before most of you were geeks. I was a geek in the EIGHTIES. A dungeons and dragons playing, teenage mutant turtle loving, skinny, awkward, geek. I didn't have to worry about girls dressing up as my favorite characters ironically when they didn't really understand the lore (oh the horror!). I had to worry about girls treating my interests like a communicable disease. From my late teens through my twenties, I was happy to find girlfriends who TOLERATED my hobby, let alone embraced it. I saw male friends who enjoyed gaming putting it aside forever because their girlfriends didn't like dating "little boys with silly toys". Now that I'm in my thirties, I have a younger girlfriend who grew up with gaming, and actually enjoys it. She geeks out about things with me. At no point was I ever suspicious of her. At no point did I think "you cannot have this, because you did not suffer for it". I don't care if you were born suckling at the teat of geek or if you just saw a Skyrim commercial on television and want to cosplay as sexy Dovahkiin because you like attention. It's not really any of my fucking business either way, is it, why you do things? You like a thing I like? Cool! Let's have a chat.

So no, that didn't bother me in the slightest. OT though, yes, overly aggressive generalizations will get my back up, whether I am part of that group or not. I might take it slightly more personally if I'm a member of the group being insulted, but I'm extremely irritated either way. It's intellectually lazy and it's fertile ground for a lot of extremely damaging prejudices.

We need more people like you around. =P

Massive generalisations are the whole thing that started that whole `controversy`. Of course they are annoying and hurtful.
I shouldn't have to put up with people assuming I'm not as experienced a gamer as they are because I have boobs, you shouldn't have to put up with anyone saying all male nerds are sexist (though I didn't really see anyone saying they are all like that).
To be honest, if I were a dude I'd be more annoyed at the people trying to make it look like our community is full of sexist fuckheads by pushing against female inclusion in nerd culture.

Also dude, once again- feminists are not coming to take your dick away.
We're not that bloody scary.
It kinda seems like you've got a bit of a persecution thing going on.

 

[Chromatic Aberration]

I'm currently reading this little bugger here [http://www.amazon.de/Identity-Intergroup-Relations-European-Psychology/dp/0521153654/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1354994044&sr=8-1] which subsumes the idea that people identify with their group under the notion of an underlying social identity. A social identity, from what I currently understand, is an internalized form of a positive stereotype of one's own group in contrast to stereotypical versions of other groups. The same seems to apply to this case. If people identify strongly with "maleness" or "geekyness" and their commonly associated stereotypes a critique of a group is taken as a personal attack and people react strongly to it - in the same way that people who identify more than necessary with other labels (political, national etc). The extend of which is probably determined by individual factors. So, the assertion that it is indeed "human nature" seems accurate.

Personally, I've always avoided these kinds of superfluous labels. I'm myself and will always be and I usually give a shit about what people think about what labels they can subsume me under. If they want to attach value judgements to, from my perspective, purely descriptive labels that just so happen to apply to me, they can do that. They just shouldn't expect me to engage in their petty tribal games.

Captcha: "can I love?" I swear, this Captcha is starting to creep me out >_>

 

[Doclector]

We need more people like you around. =P

Massive generalisations are the whole thing that started that whole `controversy`. Of course they are annoying and hurtful.
I shouldn't have to put up with people assuming I'm not as experienced a gamer as they are because I have boobs, you shouldn't have to put up with anyone saying all male nerds are sexist (though I didn't really see anyone saying they are all like that).
To be honest, if I were a dude I'd be more annoyed at the people trying to make it look like our community is full of sexist fuckheads by pushing against female inclusion in nerd culture.

Also dude, once again- feminists are not coming to take your dick away.
We're not that bloody scary.
It kinda seems like you've got a bit of a persecution thing going on.

Well, that's exactly the problem. I generally have a persecution thing whenever a piece of criticism is directed at a group that I happen to belong to, in this case, male nerds.

Though, funnily enough, I was reading a long, dull article for my media course at uni, and apparently, according to Freud, all men secretly suspect women are men who had their dicks cut off, and thus they are naturally afraid of them.

I've said it many times and I'll say it again, why does anyone listen to Freud?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I've said it many times and I'll say it again, why does anyone listen to Freud?

He ranks very highly on the trustworthiness of beards chart.

 

[StriderShinryu]

Well, the whole "gamers are just adolescent minded man children living in their parents basement playing with childrens toys" thing has always offended me. As has the "video games make people into murder machines" thing. As a long time fan and follower of games and the game industry, I know how grossly untrue beliefs like that are.. but I can't help but be annoyed every time they are brought up.

 

[MakerofMysteries]

It's good that there's a debate, but it's a shame that people are bringing such strong emotions into what should purely be an argument from a logical point of view with the basic human rights as guidelines. I tell you, this would never have happened on Androidia; our programming simply does not allow it.

Forceful generalisations are always harmful; trying to induce guilt - be for being a "fake nerd girl" or simply for being a male nerd - is both petty and moronic, and only goes to show that you're an insecure, shallow prick. Or vagina.

 

[mechashiva77]

I do. In gender debates like this a lot of people are always railing about how feminists are just trying to ruin everyone else's fun and make everything unsexy. The hypocrisy of it just bugs me so much how people will get upset that they're being generalized as "basement dwelling man-children" and then proceed to do the same thing by generalizing feminists.

Captcha: "enjoy life" Perhaps if I spent less time in the forums I would. I should work on that.

 

[thesilentman]

I take it personally if it really pisses me off. I don't like the label nerd or geek in real life; I just fucking don't!

I also take it personally when someone thinks that all of my generation are freaking idiots. It just... GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

 

[Winthrop]

What are you saying? Everyone on the internet takes general comments personally? I'm a person on the internet. HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT ABOUT ME! In all seriousness though I do occasionally do this, especially when it comes to anti-religious sentiments as my religion is kind of personal.

 

[Alakaizer]

~snip~

I have to counter your reaction with my reaction to overgeneralizations...People on the internet fail to register as human to me. That's not a slight on anyone here, it's just that unless I know them in real life, their opinions don't matter to me, and generalizations just float right past too, since I know what I'm like and I know that generalizing is wrong. I have to wonder, though, if maybe people are over-sensitive to generalizations because they are worried there is a grain of truth to be found in them. Who knows? Topic for another day.

Captcha: I find Diet Coke disgusting!