First thread, have been lurking for some time. I'm not sure if this is the right place, but it seems to be so here goes.
This discussion isn't about games themselves, but rather the mindset gamers seem to have about varying things (and how people deal with differences in general). I have a chatlog that remains unedited (save for some irrelevent bits clipped off the end that would unfairly tint the debate) sans the names of the users. The SteamIDs have been redacted to protect identities. The users' names have been mentioned several times but only the first names were used, and thus the names were left in. I bolded the names and gave them identifying colours for readability. The discussion itself is exactly as it was.
The users involved are as follows, so that the conversation makes sense;
Alpha - Mitch
Bravo - Kyle
Charlie - Peyton
I have enclosed it as an .html file to retain formatting. The Megaupload link will follow (it's 50kb), and if you are concerned about it's contents, I invite you to open it with OpenOffice, Notepad, or any other text viewer prior to loading it in your browser. The question is implied. I'll let you voice your thoughts on the matters after you read it for yourself.
I'm leaving the context vague, because I wish to know what people think with absolutely no preconceptions. So.. What do you think?
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WIV7F9V1
**EDIT: I see the poll doesn't like apostrophes.. The 5th option was "They're all idiots." before The Escapist butchered it.
***EDIT: People have suggested using spoiler tags, so here goes. Hopefully this works.. (Note, the above download is still reccomended as it contains clearer formatting in the form of colour-coding and the like.)
Never tell your password to anyone.
December-18-10
4:54 PM - Alpha: Minecraft? me you peyton ed?
4:55 PM - Alpha: With the dungeon
6:20 PM - Bravo: Sorry, was afk.
6:20 PM - Bravo: I believe Ed is away.
6:20 PM - Bravo: Yeah, he is.
6:29 PM - Bravo: alright,
6:29 PM - Bravo: I have a world ready anyway.
6:29 PM - Bravo: I'd highly reccomend using a neater texture pack for the full effect.
6:30 PM - Bravo: It really does add to the epic scope of the environment (the original textures work but are bland by comparison).
6:31 PM - Bravo: It's the difference between Goldeneye 64 and Black Ops. They both get the job done. But one gets the job done with style. :X
6:46 PM - Alpha: I unno all the texture packs that i've seen arn't to hot, they seem not finished, or they hvae one cool black and then one that is gay, i'd rather just stay with the base game and put in the shadow mod.
6:46 PM - Alpha: And alright
6:47 PM - Alpha: Make it the same envirment as the last map I saw of yours
6:48 PM - Bravo: It's the same style.
6:49 PM - Bravo: It's randomly generated.
6:49 PM - Bravo: Also,
6:49 PM - Bravo: the one I would be reccomending is complete,
6:49 PM - Bravo: and is based on old SNES RPGs and such.
6:49 PM - Alpha: I didn't like the one you had
6:50 PM - Bravo: http://i.imgur.com/KYD3r.png
6:51 PM - Bravo: http://i.imgur.com/hJxb4.png
6:52 PM - Alpha: all of the blacks look out of place when they're placed side by side doesn't look right
6:52 PM - Alpha: The singled out bricks look good though
6:53 PM - Bravo: http://i.imgur.com/EQPo1.png
6:53 PM - Bravo: how do they even look remotely odd together:x
6:54 PM - Alpha: The patterns are extremely obvious to the eye, it doesn't mesh together very well
6:55 PM - Bravo: that's a joke right.
6:55 PM - Bravo: Have you SEEN the base game?:X
6:56 PM - Alpha: Yes..yes I have, and it might not look good singled out but atlest they keep a consistant art style that can actually look normal side by side
6:56 PM - Bravo: it doesn't look normal at all:x
6:57 PM - Alpha: Yes it does
6:58 PM - Alpha: Nothing looks out of the ordinary when you look at a mountain, the textures in your makes rock stand out like a zit, base games looks similar to the dirt next to it
7:01 PM - Alpha: I'm just gonna stick with base till I find something I like.
7:01 PM - Alpha: So should we wait for Ed till we start playing the world? I think so
7:02 PM - Bravo: hold on,
7:02 PM - Bravo: uploading some pictures:X
7:02 PM - Bravo: taken of EXACTLY the same scene (in the new world I generated for us) with EXACTLY the same angle.
7:02 PM - Bravo: One with my personal texture pack (one I am working on myself) and one with the base texture pack,
7:03 PM - Bravo: and one with the base overlayed on mine.
7:03 PM - Alpha: shoot
7:03 PM - Bravo: They're just finishing up on the upload.
7:03 PM - Bravo: I'll toss you the links in a moment,
7:03 PM - Alpha: mhk
7:03 PM - Bravo: though they will be compressed by photobucket, so sending them directly would work better.
7:04 PM - Bravo: You'll have to get on MSN or Xfire for that, though.
7:04 PM - Alpha: fuck it
7:04 PM - Bravo: http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h135/matorok/old.png
7:04 PM - Bravo: That's the base texture pack.
7:04 PM - Bravo: Also,
7:05 PM - Bravo: they got resized different amounts by photobucket, don't ask me why.
7:05 PM - Bravo: But they ARE the same exact scene.
7:05 PM - Bravo: http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h135/matorok/new.png
7:05 PM - Bravo: That's mine.
7:05 PM - Bravo: http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h135/matorok/newold2.png
7:05 PM - Bravo: That's the overlay.
7:06 PM - Bravo: The base game, by comparison, is just.. Washed out and without detail. I'm not saying the game should look like a PS3 game, but..
7:07 PM - Alpha: It's SO...BAD!, how did you manahe to fuck that teture up, you made the patterns in the wood blocks WAY to easy to point out, that's the problem with most texture packs they fuck up with the patterns making it look like a pile of dog shit. ( No offence)
7:08 PM - Bravo: The woodblocks side by side look like two logs, side by side.
7:08 PM - Bravo: That's how it logically should be. The weird way the game generates trees affects both texture packs.
7:09 PM - Bravo: If you looked at the bottom of the trees, they would look equally fucked up.
7:09 PM - Alpha: No it's not
7:09 PM - Bravo: That's just Minecraft.
7:11 PM - Alpha: No it's fine in base game because notch made the textures more small and a small easy to hide pattern that blends in perfectly with other blocks he has created, your wood ( like most packs) looks WAY out of place compared to the grass the leafs the stone (I would list out everything else but way to lazy)
7:11 PM - Bravo: It looks like wood.
7:11 PM - Alpha: No I'm fine with minecrafts graphics think they are simply and neet, and I'm alright with the style of everything
7:11 PM - Bravo: The grass looks like grass.
7:11 PM - Bravo: They SHOULD look different:x
7:11 PM - Alpha: The wood looks lieka dynosaurs back
7:12 PM - Bravo: Have you seen real trees?:x
7:12 PM - Bravo: They tend to have bark:x
7:13 PM - Alpha: Well explain to me this why does notchs textures blend in and everyones alses stands out and looks bad? his leafs look like leafs, his un cutt wood looks like un cutt wood
7:13 PM - Bravo: these leaves look like leaves too.
7:13 PM - Bravo: If anything, moreso, because there is more fidelity to them and they aren't just a square with a tail.
7:14 PM - Bravo: The uncut wood looks like logs.
7:14 PM - Bravo: The cut wood looks like planks (not pictured).
7:14 PM - Alpha: Yeah your leafs look like leafs...just the art style along with the pattern doesn't match up with the bark
7:15 PM - Bravo: ...They should be different patterns.
7:15 PM - Bravo: Because one is leaves,
7:15 PM - Bravo: one is bark:X
7:15 PM - Alpha: they should blend in
7:16 PM - Bravo: The only patterns that need to fit together, are ores and rocks, and mossy cobblestone/cobblestone.
7:16 PM - Bravo: The cobblestone should ideally fit well with the smooth stone as well.
7:16 PM - Bravo: In my pack, both are detailed, unique building materials.
7:17 PM - Bravo: The smooth stone has a slight break in the pattern as you can see on the far right. This prevents it from being a monotonous blob of grey.
7:18 PM - Bravo: When used as a building material, it looks great. Much like carved chunks of smooth rock. When seen in the while, it serves to break up the sides of mountains a tad and provide better depth. You would never see a completely smooth face of rock the size of a mountain in real life, so it makes sense to have some minor variance. It's a sublte enough texture that it doesn't look like a pattern so much as it does a subtle gridwork.
7:18 PM - Bravo: The cobblestone I'm less fond of, and still needs some work.
7:19 PM - Bravo: The leaves blend together well, and the logs look perfect stacked on top of one another, like they presumably should be. It's not until you start doing weird things with them like putting them sideways and expecting them to still look like logs. The base game is just as bad for this.
7:19 PM - Bravo: Because it still looks like sections of log stapled together sideways.
7:20 PM - Alpha: Anyways too lazy to read your splooge of shit, repeating the same thing over and over and over, won't make me change my mind or get your point through when it makes NO sence...only to you maybe, it looks out of place in my opinion others may think differnt but I do not, end of story.
7:20 PM - Bravo: The grass COULD be a bit lighter. I opted for a wetter look.
7:21 PM - Bravo: You make arguments without basis and then refuse to dispute the matter in a logical manner.
7:22 PM - Bravo: IE, Ed has pointed out a number of inconcistancies within my texture pack that I have been addressing, but these have been sensible arguments. "The log could look better if you did [etc]" not "the log looks like a pattern" which can be applied to the entire game.
7:25 PM - Alpha: basis: The bloacks look out of place'' Your basis: '' I dont like YOUR basis'' My dispute :The blocks once AGAIN dont look meshed right side by side, the grass doesn't blend in with the tree, the tree doesn't blen din with the leafs, everyone of your blacks have a different art style and a pattern that desn't sync well with each other. And no logic? I think I just explained it.
7:25 PM - Alpha: The log patterns are far too big compared to the leafs and everything around it.
7:25 PM - Bravo: You're stating that it is logical to have different materials have the exact same pattern.
7:26 PM - Bravo: When was the last time you saw dirt the same pattern as rock but a different colour?
7:26 PM - Alpha: No not the EXACT same pattern I didn't say that
7:26 PM - Bravo: You haven't.
7:26 PM - Bravo: Because dirt is a very different material from rock.
7:26 PM - Bravo: Leaves are not wood, and wood is not grass.
7:26 PM - Bravo: All these things should look very different.
7:26 PM - Alpha: They should just blend it, like I said above notch did it, why cant anyone else, so as it stands I'm gonna stick with notchs texture pack
7:26 PM - Bravo: Now; "The log patterns are far too big compared to the leafs and everything around it."
7:26 PM - Alpha: I never said that you MORON!
7:27 PM - Bravo: is the best thing you've said all night.
7:27 PM - Alpha: I'm not saying the leafs should be made out of fucking WOOD, when did I say that
7:27 PM - Bravo: You said that the WOOD and the LEAVES should BLEND IN and MESH.
7:27 PM - Alpha: Yes they should
7:27 PM - Bravo: Put a leaf on a log and tell me if it blends in.
7:27 PM - Alpha: Like notchs
7:28 PM - Alpha: they look proper side by side
7:28 PM - Bravo: "The log patterns are far too big compared to the leafs and everything around it," is the first piece of actual critique you have given.
7:28 PM - Bravo: Because that is an actual, valid suggestion/complaint.
7:28 PM - Bravo: "The leaves should look bigger"
7:29 PM - Bravo: As it stands, they are a tad small, more like a willow sort of tree rather than a maple or something of the sort. That one is a good point.
7:29 PM - Alpha: No this whole thing is an opinion based argument... if I say the leafs dont blend in color size, to the wood its in MY opinion
7:29 PM - Alpha: In the end in my opinion it looks like shit, I'm sticking with the base game
7:29 PM - Bravo: Opinions have no grounds in logic.
7:29 PM - Alpha: You won't be able to change my opinion
7:30 PM - Alpha: Quick I'm gonna put a sentence out that makes me sound smart
7:30 PM - Bravo: Logic does not change merely because an opinion is involved. The logical answer is the logical answer regardless of what your opinion of it may be. I'm not trying to change your opinion, I'm trying to get you to state your opinion logically.
Your chat with Alpha is now a multi-user chat.
Charlie entered chat.
December-18-10
7:31 PM - Alpha: And go
7:31 PM - Charlie: he's stated his opion logicaly for fucks sake
7:32 PM - Charlie: Your leaves look like they're from team fortress 2 and your wood from golden eye. It looks like shit. That is all
7:32 PM - Bravo: No, he's yelled about how he thinks it doesn't mesh but has not stated what about it does not, save for one comment about leaves.
7:32 PM - Alpha: A logical opinion
7:33 PM - Bravo: It's not about whether he likes it, if a person doesn't like something then they do not like something.
7:33 PM - Alpha: As I AM SAYING!
7:33 PM - Alpha: And your going on and on and on
7:34 PM - Bravo: It's about a person's ability to articulate what they DO like.
7:34 PM - Alpha: Also as I was saying
7:34 PM - Bravo: You offer no criticism other than "I don't like it", which is besides the point.
7:34 PM - Alpha: And your once again ''going on and on and on''
7:34 PM - Charlie: He likes textures that look like they're from the same game and not a frankenstine mess
7:35 PM - Bravo: They are the same game.
7:35 PM - Alpha: The whole reason why you showed me this is becasue you wanted me to use it... and I said no...so you decided to persway me and it's not working so your making up stupid arguments to back it up....
7:35 PM - Bravo: They are both unmistakably Minecraft.
7:35 PM - Charlie: Exactly. It's a shame they don't look it though, huh?
7:35 PM - Alpha: ^bump
7:36 PM - Bravo: No one could mistake either of them for anything but Minecraft, and yet it's a shame they don't look like Minecraft?
7:36 PM - Bravo: You want to run that one by me again?
7:36 PM - Charlie: They look out of place.
7:36 PM - Charlie: Don't like it?
7:36 PM - Charlie: Deal with it.
7:37 PM - Charlie: Recognizable patterns don't make for good textures, they need to blend together so that I can't clearly see each section.
7:37 PM - Bravo: I've already been called a moron in this discussion, as well as several implied statements about my intellect. I've not retaliated, because I'm not a little girl that feels the need to bicker. Rather, I'm trying to determine what would make these textures *BETTER*.
7:37 PM - Alpha: Kyle minecraft has texture to it, all this other shit isn't actually minecraft it's you and everyone else,, minecrafts texures are minecraft texures
7:37 PM - Alpha: Get rid of them?
7:38 PM - Bravo: And it's statements like that, that are the problem.
7:39 PM - Charlie: What the fuck am I reading?
7:39 PM - Alpha: And I called you moron becasue you are dragging this argument ( What could have been a discussion but you forced it to be an argument by not understanding how it looks out of place) way to long, I stated my opinion already
7:40 PM - Charlie: Did I call you dumb? Nope. You just dug up something he said before I was even here to try and change the subject.
7:40 PM - Bravo: Again, "is this good y/n?" was not the question. "Do you like this y/n?" is not the question. "What exactly about this makes you think these look out of place?" is more along the lines of the question. But you simply keep saying "because they do."
7:41 PM - Charlie: I'll takes this slowly for you
7:41 PM - Bravo: I didn't say you called me dumb, Peyton. I said I was called a moron (by Mitch).
7:41 PM - Charlie: The patterns
7:41 PM - Charlie: Are easy
7:41 PM - Charlie: To discern
7:41 PM - Bravo: Let me respond just as slowly.
7:41 PM - Bravo: W
7:41 PM - Bravo: h
7:41 PM - Bravo: y
7:41 PM - Bravo: ?
7:41 PM - Bravo: What
7:41 PM - Bravo: about
7:41 PM - Bravo: the
7:41 PM - Bravo: patterns
7:41 PM - Bravo: make
7:41 PM - Bravo: them
7:41 PM - Bravo: easy
7:41 PM - Bravo: to
7:42 PM - Bravo: discern?
7:42 PM - Charlie: The sides of the dirt have a big ass line followed by two circles, over and over and over again
7:42 PM - Alpha: Kyle-''Alright I'm losing this one I cant win, what ever could I do? state something to make me sound smart? start an argument on something off topic to win, when no one is arguing with you in the first place..I know! how bout I do both!''
7:42 PM - Charlie: I see it. It looks bad. It doesn't get much deeper then this
7:42 PM - Bravo: That was the question.
7:43 PM - Bravo: I don't see the line, but now I know what to look for.
7:43 PM - Bravo: By eliminating it, it will be a better texture.
7:43 PM - Bravo: THAT was the question.
7:43 PM - Bravo: THAT was a good answer.
7:44 PM - Charlie: Fantastic.
7:44 PM - Alpha: Alright... so kyle you get out what you wanted to get out? can we move on now?
7:45 PM - Charlie: Brb my good sirs
7:46 PM - Bravo: The rest of it was in regards to the rest of the textures individually. Not everyone likes the same things, but 90% of people can agree on what will make something better for what it is. I can respect both of you don't like it, I merely wanted to know how it could be improved so that down the road, maybe someone else who otherwise wouldn't have liked it will like it as well. :x
7:46 PM - Bravo: Take your time, Peyton.
7:46 PM - Bravo: It's stuff like "get rid of them" that doesn't answer my question in any meaningful way, Mitch. That's all.
7:47 PM - Charlie: A VERY good idea though mitchell, they definately need to go away. Forever.
7:48 PM - Alpha: But yeah... I would just scratch the whoel project
7:48 PM - Bravo: And here I was thinking you were a decent guy for a minute. :x
7:49 PM - Charlie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvdf5n-zI14
7:50 PM - Alpha: Hes' just joking arooound, no need to get fussy
7:51 PM - Bravo: Mitch, I was just asking you what would make them better when you started getting pissy as if I'm the nazi thought police trying to get you to conform to something ridiculous.
7:55 PM - Charlie: I think the was just trying to get this across
7:55 PM - Charlie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRHGKGRlz-Q&t=0m35s
7:56 PM - Bravo: And at the end of the day, they'll remember you because you're a dick. And not because you have one.
7:57 PM - Bravo: Real men don't resort to lame jabs, my friend.
7:57 PM - Bravo: Grow some balls and act like a big boy. :x
7:57 PM - Charlie: No?
7:57 PM - Charlie: U mad bro?
7:58 PM - Bravo: Not even remotely.
7:58 PM - Alpha: lol
7:58 PM - Charlie: Wait wait wait
7:58 PM - Charlie: Did you just say real men don't resort to jabs
7:59 PM - Charlie: Then say I have no balls?
7:59 PM - Charlie: HUEHAHEHAHEHEHAHAHA
7:59 PM - Bravo: It is a figure of speech, which you seem to fail to realize.
7:59 PM - Charlie: No, it's not?
7:59 PM - Bravo: It means grow up a little.
7:59 PM - Charlie: It's a big dumb mistake on your part
8:00 PM - Bravo: Clearly you're not familiar with the phrase.
8:01 PM - Charlie: No?
8:01 PM - Charlie: You ate your own foot there
8:01 PM - Charlie: I'd say i'm atleast more familiar with it then you considering i'm the one who poked at it
8:01 PM - Bravo: It means to grow up, mature, typically in the sense of not being afraid of something. But also in the sense prepubescents' balls' haven't dropped.
8:01 PM - Bravo: "Grow a pair"; grow up.
8:02 PM - Charlie: My point exactly.
8:02 PM - Charlie: Twice now
8:02 PM - Charlie: Harden up or keep quite
8:02 PM - Charlie: quiet*
8:02 PM - Bravo: "Grow up" is not a jab. It's a statement regarding immaturity.
8:03 PM - Bravo: If you're going to pick apart my words, you'd be much better off picking apart the latter half of "And at the end of the day, they'll remember you because you're a dick. And not because you have one."
8:03 PM - Charlie: Telling someone they're immature =/= not a jab
8:03 PM - Charlie: I'm right your wrong deal with it
8:03 PM - Bravo: "I'm right your wrong" is again, immature.
8:04 PM - Charlie: And the truth
8:04 PM - Bravo: As is not accepting someone else is right, when they are. Immaturity on my part? It would be, if telling you that you are acting immature were to constitute a jab, anyway.
8:04 PM - Charlie: You're either dense or pretending to be dumb, either way you can't win here
8:05 PM - Bravo: The sky is blue, is a statement. Grass is [usually] green; a statement. You are immature. A statement.
8:05 PM - Alpha: -sigh- as you pointed out before about me saying the leafs are too small for the bark, you saying ''grow up'' isn't a jab is more retarted then what i've EVER said.
8:05 PM - Bravo: "You take it up the ass from bubba every friday"; immature.
8:05 PM - Alpha: like...EVER and I say some stupid ass shit
8:05 PM - Charlie: You are ugly as fuck. A statement. But also a insult or jab
8:06 PM - Charlie: Not saying that you're actually ugly, i've never seen you
8:06 PM - Bravo: But if it's true, then it's true.
8:06 PM - Charlie: It's just an example
8:06 PM - Bravo: Perhaps a dick thing to say, but honest nonetheless.
8:06 PM - Charlie: So you concede that it was a jab?
8:06 PM - Bravo: I concede that it's not the most polite thing to say.
8:06 PM - Bravo: But I maintain I was being honest.
8:07 PM - Alpha: its still a jab
8:07 PM - Bravo: You can't jab people with the truth.
8:07 PM - Charlie: Yes, yes you can
8:07 PM - Bravo: The truth may hurt, but it's the truth.
8:07 PM - Charlie: You just did it like 5 minutes ago
8:07 PM - Bravo: One has to suck it up. Shoving it aside doesn't do any good.
8:08 PM - Charlie: Make no mistake, I know i'm being a giant dick right now
8:08 PM - Bravo: For instance, I respect that the truthful opinion of both of you is that I should take my texture pack and burn it.
8:08 PM - Charlie: Nope.avi
8:08 PM - Alpha: Kyle0''Quick change the topic!, i'm making no sence''
8:08 PM - Bravo: That doesn't hurt me in any way. It's just the truth of the matter. What was annoying me is that I couldn't get a clear answer on WHY the differing pieces were so disliked.
8:09 PM - Bravo: Same goes for here.
8:09 PM - Bravo: Mitch, you've never understood analogies.
8:09 PM - Charlie: You said "And here I was thinking you were a decent guy for a minute. :x" I.E. my opion made me indecent
8:09 PM - Bravo: I'm sorry bro. You know I love you. But you never have understood analogies.
8:10 PM - Bravo: It wasn't your opinion. You stated you didn't like it before, but gave me a good reason why. Then you followed it up with an unnecessary comment purely to try and agitate me.
8:10 PM - Bravo: That's what made you indecent.
8:10 PM - Alpha: Kyle my analogie was with comparing the texures from notchs and your texture pack by saying his looks in place, while yours does not..
8:11 PM - Bravo: That's not an analogy, Mitch. That's a simple comparison.
8:11 PM - Charlie: Herp derp You said it was my comment that you needed to burn it that you respected
8:11 PM - Bravo: An analogy is giving two similiar situations so as to highlight the mechanics of those situations.
8:11 PM - Bravo: And again.
8:11 PM - Bravo: I respect your opinion. An opinion is an opinion; "I don't like it at all."
8:12 PM - Bravo: But that's very different from making your opinion clear, and then further adding comments with the sole intent to agitate someone.
8:12 PM - Bravo: There's a line between honesty and being a dick.
8:12 PM - Alpha: I made it CLEAR, you are fucking blind if you could read it
8:13 PM - Alpha: Like peyton said you are just dence
8:13 PM - Alpha: Dence as fuck!
8:13 PM - Bravo: With that further unnecessary comment, you crossed the line from somewhat bluntly put honesty to just being a dick.
8:13 PM - Charlie: C'mon man. Your'e not right on any level and we're enjoying this way too much
8:14 PM - Bravo: You two are simply backing eachother up. You're having fun because you perceive me to be the minority and thus the wrong one. In the context of the three of us, you would be correct, and this would be a pointless discussion.
8:15 PM - Alpha: It was necessary when you keep repeating the same bull shit over again, and there is nothing to stop you from typing so I say shit to end the convo because I already stated my opinion, you just cant let it go...
8:15 PM - Bravo: Truth is, there's rather a metric fuckload more than just the three of us.
8:15 PM - Charlie: Every time we break your arguments you try and make new ones to save face or pretend we didn't. And I was the one accused of not making a clear point here, pfffhahaha
8:15 PM - Bravo: But neither of you have been particularly interested in that.
8:16 PM - Alpha: I'll brb, kyle if you want to splooge out more crap, go for it... I'm gonna go eat something
8:16 PM - Bravo: Enjoy your meal.
8:18 PM - Charlie: Back
8:18 PM - Bravo: Welcome back.
This discussion isn't about games themselves, but rather the mindset gamers seem to have about varying things (and how people deal with differences in general). I have a chatlog that remains unedited (save for some irrelevent bits clipped off the end that would unfairly tint the debate) sans the names of the users. The SteamIDs have been redacted to protect identities. The users' names have been mentioned several times but only the first names were used, and thus the names were left in. I bolded the names and gave them identifying colours for readability. The discussion itself is exactly as it was.
The users involved are as follows, so that the conversation makes sense;
Alpha - Mitch
Bravo - Kyle
Charlie - Peyton
I have enclosed it as an .html file to retain formatting. The Megaupload link will follow (it's 50kb), and if you are concerned about it's contents, I invite you to open it with OpenOffice, Notepad, or any other text viewer prior to loading it in your browser. The question is implied. I'll let you voice your thoughts on the matters after you read it for yourself.
I'm leaving the context vague, because I wish to know what people think with absolutely no preconceptions. So.. What do you think?
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WIV7F9V1
**EDIT: I see the poll doesn't like apostrophes.. The 5th option was "They're all idiots." before The Escapist butchered it.
***EDIT: People have suggested using spoiler tags, so here goes. Hopefully this works.. (Note, the above download is still reccomended as it contains clearer formatting in the form of colour-coding and the like.)
Never tell your password to anyone.
December-18-10
4:54 PM - Alpha: Minecraft? me you peyton ed?
4:55 PM - Alpha: With the dungeon
6:20 PM - Bravo: Sorry, was afk.
6:20 PM - Bravo: I believe Ed is away.
6:20 PM - Bravo: Yeah, he is.
6:29 PM - Bravo: alright,
6:29 PM - Bravo: I have a world ready anyway.
6:29 PM - Bravo: I'd highly reccomend using a neater texture pack for the full effect.
6:30 PM - Bravo: It really does add to the epic scope of the environment (the original textures work but are bland by comparison).
6:31 PM - Bravo: It's the difference between Goldeneye 64 and Black Ops. They both get the job done. But one gets the job done with style. :X
6:46 PM - Alpha: I unno all the texture packs that i've seen arn't to hot, they seem not finished, or they hvae one cool black and then one that is gay, i'd rather just stay with the base game and put in the shadow mod.
6:46 PM - Alpha: And alright
6:47 PM - Alpha: Make it the same envirment as the last map I saw of yours
6:48 PM - Bravo: It's the same style.
6:49 PM - Bravo: It's randomly generated.
6:49 PM - Bravo: Also,
6:49 PM - Bravo: the one I would be reccomending is complete,
6:49 PM - Bravo: and is based on old SNES RPGs and such.
6:49 PM - Alpha: I didn't like the one you had
6:50 PM - Bravo: http://i.imgur.com/KYD3r.png
6:51 PM - Bravo: http://i.imgur.com/hJxb4.png
6:52 PM - Alpha: all of the blacks look out of place when they're placed side by side doesn't look right
6:52 PM - Alpha: The singled out bricks look good though
6:53 PM - Bravo: http://i.imgur.com/EQPo1.png
6:53 PM - Bravo: how do they even look remotely odd together:x
6:54 PM - Alpha: The patterns are extremely obvious to the eye, it doesn't mesh together very well
6:55 PM - Bravo: that's a joke right.
6:55 PM - Bravo: Have you SEEN the base game?:X
6:56 PM - Alpha: Yes..yes I have, and it might not look good singled out but atlest they keep a consistant art style that can actually look normal side by side
6:56 PM - Bravo: it doesn't look normal at all:x
6:57 PM - Alpha: Yes it does
6:58 PM - Alpha: Nothing looks out of the ordinary when you look at a mountain, the textures in your makes rock stand out like a zit, base games looks similar to the dirt next to it
7:01 PM - Alpha: I'm just gonna stick with base till I find something I like.
7:01 PM - Alpha: So should we wait for Ed till we start playing the world? I think so
7:02 PM - Bravo: hold on,
7:02 PM - Bravo: uploading some pictures:X
7:02 PM - Bravo: taken of EXACTLY the same scene (in the new world I generated for us) with EXACTLY the same angle.
7:02 PM - Bravo: One with my personal texture pack (one I am working on myself) and one with the base texture pack,
7:03 PM - Bravo: and one with the base overlayed on mine.
7:03 PM - Alpha: shoot
7:03 PM - Bravo: They're just finishing up on the upload.
7:03 PM - Bravo: I'll toss you the links in a moment,
7:03 PM - Alpha: mhk
7:03 PM - Bravo: though they will be compressed by photobucket, so sending them directly would work better.
7:04 PM - Bravo: You'll have to get on MSN or Xfire for that, though.
7:04 PM - Alpha: fuck it
7:04 PM - Bravo: http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h135/matorok/old.png
7:04 PM - Bravo: That's the base texture pack.
7:04 PM - Bravo: Also,
7:05 PM - Bravo: they got resized different amounts by photobucket, don't ask me why.
7:05 PM - Bravo: But they ARE the same exact scene.
7:05 PM - Bravo: http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h135/matorok/new.png
7:05 PM - Bravo: That's mine.
7:05 PM - Bravo: http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h135/matorok/newold2.png
7:05 PM - Bravo: That's the overlay.
7:06 PM - Bravo: The base game, by comparison, is just.. Washed out and without detail. I'm not saying the game should look like a PS3 game, but..
7:07 PM - Alpha: It's SO...BAD!, how did you manahe to fuck that teture up, you made the patterns in the wood blocks WAY to easy to point out, that's the problem with most texture packs they fuck up with the patterns making it look like a pile of dog shit. ( No offence)
7:08 PM - Bravo: The woodblocks side by side look like two logs, side by side.
7:08 PM - Bravo: That's how it logically should be. The weird way the game generates trees affects both texture packs.
7:09 PM - Bravo: If you looked at the bottom of the trees, they would look equally fucked up.
7:09 PM - Alpha: No it's not
7:09 PM - Bravo: That's just Minecraft.
7:11 PM - Alpha: No it's fine in base game because notch made the textures more small and a small easy to hide pattern that blends in perfectly with other blocks he has created, your wood ( like most packs) looks WAY out of place compared to the grass the leafs the stone (I would list out everything else but way to lazy)
7:11 PM - Bravo: It looks like wood.
7:11 PM - Alpha: No I'm fine with minecrafts graphics think they are simply and neet, and I'm alright with the style of everything
7:11 PM - Bravo: The grass looks like grass.
7:11 PM - Bravo: They SHOULD look different:x
7:11 PM - Alpha: The wood looks lieka dynosaurs back
7:12 PM - Bravo: Have you seen real trees?:x
7:12 PM - Bravo: They tend to have bark:x
7:13 PM - Alpha: Well explain to me this why does notchs textures blend in and everyones alses stands out and looks bad? his leafs look like leafs, his un cutt wood looks like un cutt wood
7:13 PM - Bravo: these leaves look like leaves too.
7:13 PM - Bravo: If anything, moreso, because there is more fidelity to them and they aren't just a square with a tail.
7:14 PM - Bravo: The uncut wood looks like logs.
7:14 PM - Bravo: The cut wood looks like planks (not pictured).
7:14 PM - Alpha: Yeah your leafs look like leafs...just the art style along with the pattern doesn't match up with the bark
7:15 PM - Bravo: ...They should be different patterns.
7:15 PM - Bravo: Because one is leaves,
7:15 PM - Bravo: one is bark:X
7:15 PM - Alpha: they should blend in
7:16 PM - Bravo: The only patterns that need to fit together, are ores and rocks, and mossy cobblestone/cobblestone.
7:16 PM - Bravo: The cobblestone should ideally fit well with the smooth stone as well.
7:16 PM - Bravo: In my pack, both are detailed, unique building materials.
7:17 PM - Bravo: The smooth stone has a slight break in the pattern as you can see on the far right. This prevents it from being a monotonous blob of grey.
7:18 PM - Bravo: When used as a building material, it looks great. Much like carved chunks of smooth rock. When seen in the while, it serves to break up the sides of mountains a tad and provide better depth. You would never see a completely smooth face of rock the size of a mountain in real life, so it makes sense to have some minor variance. It's a sublte enough texture that it doesn't look like a pattern so much as it does a subtle gridwork.
7:18 PM - Bravo: The cobblestone I'm less fond of, and still needs some work.
7:19 PM - Bravo: The leaves blend together well, and the logs look perfect stacked on top of one another, like they presumably should be. It's not until you start doing weird things with them like putting them sideways and expecting them to still look like logs. The base game is just as bad for this.
7:19 PM - Bravo: Because it still looks like sections of log stapled together sideways.
7:20 PM - Alpha: Anyways too lazy to read your splooge of shit, repeating the same thing over and over and over, won't make me change my mind or get your point through when it makes NO sence...only to you maybe, it looks out of place in my opinion others may think differnt but I do not, end of story.
7:20 PM - Bravo: The grass COULD be a bit lighter. I opted for a wetter look.
7:21 PM - Bravo: You make arguments without basis and then refuse to dispute the matter in a logical manner.
7:22 PM - Bravo: IE, Ed has pointed out a number of inconcistancies within my texture pack that I have been addressing, but these have been sensible arguments. "The log could look better if you did [etc]" not "the log looks like a pattern" which can be applied to the entire game.
7:25 PM - Alpha: basis: The bloacks look out of place'' Your basis: '' I dont like YOUR basis'' My dispute :The blocks once AGAIN dont look meshed right side by side, the grass doesn't blend in with the tree, the tree doesn't blen din with the leafs, everyone of your blacks have a different art style and a pattern that desn't sync well with each other. And no logic? I think I just explained it.
7:25 PM - Alpha: The log patterns are far too big compared to the leafs and everything around it.
7:25 PM - Bravo: You're stating that it is logical to have different materials have the exact same pattern.
7:26 PM - Bravo: When was the last time you saw dirt the same pattern as rock but a different colour?
7:26 PM - Alpha: No not the EXACT same pattern I didn't say that
7:26 PM - Bravo: You haven't.
7:26 PM - Bravo: Because dirt is a very different material from rock.
7:26 PM - Bravo: Leaves are not wood, and wood is not grass.
7:26 PM - Bravo: All these things should look very different.
7:26 PM - Alpha: They should just blend it, like I said above notch did it, why cant anyone else, so as it stands I'm gonna stick with notchs texture pack
7:26 PM - Bravo: Now; "The log patterns are far too big compared to the leafs and everything around it."
7:26 PM - Alpha: I never said that you MORON!
7:27 PM - Bravo: is the best thing you've said all night.
7:27 PM - Alpha: I'm not saying the leafs should be made out of fucking WOOD, when did I say that
7:27 PM - Bravo: You said that the WOOD and the LEAVES should BLEND IN and MESH.
7:27 PM - Alpha: Yes they should
7:27 PM - Bravo: Put a leaf on a log and tell me if it blends in.
7:27 PM - Alpha: Like notchs
7:28 PM - Alpha: they look proper side by side
7:28 PM - Bravo: "The log patterns are far too big compared to the leafs and everything around it," is the first piece of actual critique you have given.
7:28 PM - Bravo: Because that is an actual, valid suggestion/complaint.
7:28 PM - Bravo: "The leaves should look bigger"
7:29 PM - Bravo: As it stands, they are a tad small, more like a willow sort of tree rather than a maple or something of the sort. That one is a good point.
7:29 PM - Alpha: No this whole thing is an opinion based argument... if I say the leafs dont blend in color size, to the wood its in MY opinion
7:29 PM - Alpha: In the end in my opinion it looks like shit, I'm sticking with the base game
7:29 PM - Bravo: Opinions have no grounds in logic.
7:29 PM - Alpha: You won't be able to change my opinion
7:30 PM - Alpha: Quick I'm gonna put a sentence out that makes me sound smart
7:30 PM - Bravo: Logic does not change merely because an opinion is involved. The logical answer is the logical answer regardless of what your opinion of it may be. I'm not trying to change your opinion, I'm trying to get you to state your opinion logically.
Your chat with Alpha is now a multi-user chat.
Charlie entered chat.
December-18-10
7:31 PM - Alpha: And go
7:31 PM - Charlie: he's stated his opion logicaly for fucks sake
7:32 PM - Charlie: Your leaves look like they're from team fortress 2 and your wood from golden eye. It looks like shit. That is all
7:32 PM - Bravo: No, he's yelled about how he thinks it doesn't mesh but has not stated what about it does not, save for one comment about leaves.
7:32 PM - Alpha: A logical opinion
7:33 PM - Bravo: It's not about whether he likes it, if a person doesn't like something then they do not like something.
7:33 PM - Alpha: As I AM SAYING!
7:33 PM - Alpha: And your going on and on and on
7:34 PM - Bravo: It's about a person's ability to articulate what they DO like.
7:34 PM - Alpha: Also as I was saying
7:34 PM - Bravo: You offer no criticism other than "I don't like it", which is besides the point.
7:34 PM - Alpha: And your once again ''going on and on and on''
7:34 PM - Charlie: He likes textures that look like they're from the same game and not a frankenstine mess
7:35 PM - Bravo: They are the same game.
7:35 PM - Alpha: The whole reason why you showed me this is becasue you wanted me to use it... and I said no...so you decided to persway me and it's not working so your making up stupid arguments to back it up....
7:35 PM - Bravo: They are both unmistakably Minecraft.
7:35 PM - Charlie: Exactly. It's a shame they don't look it though, huh?
7:35 PM - Alpha: ^bump
7:36 PM - Bravo: No one could mistake either of them for anything but Minecraft, and yet it's a shame they don't look like Minecraft?
7:36 PM - Bravo: You want to run that one by me again?
7:36 PM - Charlie: They look out of place.
7:36 PM - Charlie: Don't like it?
7:36 PM - Charlie: Deal with it.
7:37 PM - Charlie: Recognizable patterns don't make for good textures, they need to blend together so that I can't clearly see each section.
7:37 PM - Bravo: I've already been called a moron in this discussion, as well as several implied statements about my intellect. I've not retaliated, because I'm not a little girl that feels the need to bicker. Rather, I'm trying to determine what would make these textures *BETTER*.
7:37 PM - Alpha: Kyle minecraft has texture to it, all this other shit isn't actually minecraft it's you and everyone else,, minecrafts texures are minecraft texures
7:37 PM - Alpha: Get rid of them?
7:38 PM - Bravo: And it's statements like that, that are the problem.
7:39 PM - Charlie: What the fuck am I reading?
7:39 PM - Alpha: And I called you moron becasue you are dragging this argument ( What could have been a discussion but you forced it to be an argument by not understanding how it looks out of place) way to long, I stated my opinion already
7:40 PM - Charlie: Did I call you dumb? Nope. You just dug up something he said before I was even here to try and change the subject.
7:40 PM - Bravo: Again, "is this good y/n?" was not the question. "Do you like this y/n?" is not the question. "What exactly about this makes you think these look out of place?" is more along the lines of the question. But you simply keep saying "because they do."
7:41 PM - Charlie: I'll takes this slowly for you
7:41 PM - Bravo: I didn't say you called me dumb, Peyton. I said I was called a moron (by Mitch).
7:41 PM - Charlie: The patterns
7:41 PM - Charlie: Are easy
7:41 PM - Charlie: To discern
7:41 PM - Bravo: Let me respond just as slowly.
7:41 PM - Bravo: W
7:41 PM - Bravo: h
7:41 PM - Bravo: y
7:41 PM - Bravo: ?
7:41 PM - Bravo: What
7:41 PM - Bravo: about
7:41 PM - Bravo: the
7:41 PM - Bravo: patterns
7:41 PM - Bravo: make
7:41 PM - Bravo: them
7:41 PM - Bravo: easy
7:41 PM - Bravo: to
7:42 PM - Bravo: discern?
7:42 PM - Charlie: The sides of the dirt have a big ass line followed by two circles, over and over and over again
7:42 PM - Alpha: Kyle-''Alright I'm losing this one I cant win, what ever could I do? state something to make me sound smart? start an argument on something off topic to win, when no one is arguing with you in the first place..I know! how bout I do both!''
7:42 PM - Charlie: I see it. It looks bad. It doesn't get much deeper then this
7:42 PM - Bravo: That was the question.
7:43 PM - Bravo: I don't see the line, but now I know what to look for.
7:43 PM - Bravo: By eliminating it, it will be a better texture.
7:43 PM - Bravo: THAT was the question.
7:43 PM - Bravo: THAT was a good answer.
7:44 PM - Charlie: Fantastic.
7:44 PM - Alpha: Alright... so kyle you get out what you wanted to get out? can we move on now?
7:45 PM - Charlie: Brb my good sirs
7:46 PM - Bravo: The rest of it was in regards to the rest of the textures individually. Not everyone likes the same things, but 90% of people can agree on what will make something better for what it is. I can respect both of you don't like it, I merely wanted to know how it could be improved so that down the road, maybe someone else who otherwise wouldn't have liked it will like it as well. :x
7:46 PM - Bravo: Take your time, Peyton.
7:46 PM - Bravo: It's stuff like "get rid of them" that doesn't answer my question in any meaningful way, Mitch. That's all.
7:47 PM - Charlie: A VERY good idea though mitchell, they definately need to go away. Forever.
7:48 PM - Alpha: But yeah... I would just scratch the whoel project
7:48 PM - Bravo: And here I was thinking you were a decent guy for a minute. :x
7:49 PM - Charlie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvdf5n-zI14
7:50 PM - Alpha: Hes' just joking arooound, no need to get fussy
7:51 PM - Bravo: Mitch, I was just asking you what would make them better when you started getting pissy as if I'm the nazi thought police trying to get you to conform to something ridiculous.
7:55 PM - Charlie: I think the was just trying to get this across
7:55 PM - Charlie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRHGKGRlz-Q&t=0m35s
7:56 PM - Bravo: And at the end of the day, they'll remember you because you're a dick. And not because you have one.
7:57 PM - Bravo: Real men don't resort to lame jabs, my friend.
7:57 PM - Bravo: Grow some balls and act like a big boy. :x
7:57 PM - Charlie: No?
7:57 PM - Charlie: U mad bro?
7:58 PM - Bravo: Not even remotely.
7:58 PM - Alpha: lol
7:58 PM - Charlie: Wait wait wait
7:58 PM - Charlie: Did you just say real men don't resort to jabs
7:59 PM - Charlie: Then say I have no balls?
7:59 PM - Charlie: HUEHAHEHAHEHEHAHAHA
7:59 PM - Bravo: It is a figure of speech, which you seem to fail to realize.
7:59 PM - Charlie: No, it's not?
7:59 PM - Bravo: It means grow up a little.
7:59 PM - Charlie: It's a big dumb mistake on your part
8:00 PM - Bravo: Clearly you're not familiar with the phrase.
8:01 PM - Charlie: No?
8:01 PM - Charlie: You ate your own foot there
8:01 PM - Charlie: I'd say i'm atleast more familiar with it then you considering i'm the one who poked at it
8:01 PM - Bravo: It means to grow up, mature, typically in the sense of not being afraid of something. But also in the sense prepubescents' balls' haven't dropped.
8:01 PM - Bravo: "Grow a pair"; grow up.
8:02 PM - Charlie: My point exactly.
8:02 PM - Charlie: Twice now
8:02 PM - Charlie: Harden up or keep quite
8:02 PM - Charlie: quiet*
8:02 PM - Bravo: "Grow up" is not a jab. It's a statement regarding immaturity.
8:03 PM - Bravo: If you're going to pick apart my words, you'd be much better off picking apart the latter half of "And at the end of the day, they'll remember you because you're a dick. And not because you have one."
8:03 PM - Charlie: Telling someone they're immature =/= not a jab
8:03 PM - Charlie: I'm right your wrong deal with it
8:03 PM - Bravo: "I'm right your wrong" is again, immature.
8:04 PM - Charlie: And the truth
8:04 PM - Bravo: As is not accepting someone else is right, when they are. Immaturity on my part? It would be, if telling you that you are acting immature were to constitute a jab, anyway.
8:04 PM - Charlie: You're either dense or pretending to be dumb, either way you can't win here
8:05 PM - Bravo: The sky is blue, is a statement. Grass is [usually] green; a statement. You are immature. A statement.
8:05 PM - Alpha: -sigh- as you pointed out before about me saying the leafs are too small for the bark, you saying ''grow up'' isn't a jab is more retarted then what i've EVER said.
8:05 PM - Bravo: "You take it up the ass from bubba every friday"; immature.
8:05 PM - Alpha: like...EVER and I say some stupid ass shit
8:05 PM - Charlie: You are ugly as fuck. A statement. But also a insult or jab
8:06 PM - Charlie: Not saying that you're actually ugly, i've never seen you
8:06 PM - Bravo: But if it's true, then it's true.
8:06 PM - Charlie: It's just an example
8:06 PM - Bravo: Perhaps a dick thing to say, but honest nonetheless.
8:06 PM - Charlie: So you concede that it was a jab?
8:06 PM - Bravo: I concede that it's not the most polite thing to say.
8:06 PM - Bravo: But I maintain I was being honest.
8:07 PM - Alpha: its still a jab
8:07 PM - Bravo: You can't jab people with the truth.
8:07 PM - Charlie: Yes, yes you can
8:07 PM - Bravo: The truth may hurt, but it's the truth.
8:07 PM - Charlie: You just did it like 5 minutes ago
8:07 PM - Bravo: One has to suck it up. Shoving it aside doesn't do any good.
8:08 PM - Charlie: Make no mistake, I know i'm being a giant dick right now
8:08 PM - Bravo: For instance, I respect that the truthful opinion of both of you is that I should take my texture pack and burn it.
8:08 PM - Charlie: Nope.avi
8:08 PM - Alpha: Kyle0''Quick change the topic!, i'm making no sence''
8:08 PM - Bravo: That doesn't hurt me in any way. It's just the truth of the matter. What was annoying me is that I couldn't get a clear answer on WHY the differing pieces were so disliked.
8:09 PM - Bravo: Same goes for here.
8:09 PM - Bravo: Mitch, you've never understood analogies.
8:09 PM - Charlie: You said "And here I was thinking you were a decent guy for a minute. :x" I.E. my opion made me indecent
8:09 PM - Bravo: I'm sorry bro. You know I love you. But you never have understood analogies.
8:10 PM - Bravo: It wasn't your opinion. You stated you didn't like it before, but gave me a good reason why. Then you followed it up with an unnecessary comment purely to try and agitate me.
8:10 PM - Bravo: That's what made you indecent.
8:10 PM - Alpha: Kyle my analogie was with comparing the texures from notchs and your texture pack by saying his looks in place, while yours does not..
8:11 PM - Bravo: That's not an analogy, Mitch. That's a simple comparison.
8:11 PM - Charlie: Herp derp You said it was my comment that you needed to burn it that you respected
8:11 PM - Bravo: An analogy is giving two similiar situations so as to highlight the mechanics of those situations.
8:11 PM - Bravo: And again.
8:11 PM - Bravo: I respect your opinion. An opinion is an opinion; "I don't like it at all."
8:12 PM - Bravo: But that's very different from making your opinion clear, and then further adding comments with the sole intent to agitate someone.
8:12 PM - Bravo: There's a line between honesty and being a dick.
8:12 PM - Alpha: I made it CLEAR, you are fucking blind if you could read it
8:13 PM - Alpha: Like peyton said you are just dence
8:13 PM - Alpha: Dence as fuck!
8:13 PM - Bravo: With that further unnecessary comment, you crossed the line from somewhat bluntly put honesty to just being a dick.
8:13 PM - Charlie: C'mon man. Your'e not right on any level and we're enjoying this way too much
8:14 PM - Bravo: You two are simply backing eachother up. You're having fun because you perceive me to be the minority and thus the wrong one. In the context of the three of us, you would be correct, and this would be a pointless discussion.
8:15 PM - Alpha: It was necessary when you keep repeating the same bull shit over again, and there is nothing to stop you from typing so I say shit to end the convo because I already stated my opinion, you just cant let it go...
8:15 PM - Bravo: Truth is, there's rather a metric fuckload more than just the three of us.
8:15 PM - Charlie: Every time we break your arguments you try and make new ones to save face or pretend we didn't. And I was the one accused of not making a clear point here, pfffhahaha
8:15 PM - Bravo: But neither of you have been particularly interested in that.
8:16 PM - Alpha: I'll brb, kyle if you want to splooge out more crap, go for it... I'm gonna go eat something
8:16 PM - Bravo: Enjoy your meal.
8:18 PM - Charlie: Back
8:18 PM - Bravo: Welcome back.
