Poll: This has been going on for a while...

[Redtiebear]

I'll try my best to keep this as short as I can, but no promises: it's a long story.

I've been romantically entangled with a best friend from high school for years, but it's always been really complicated. At first, it turned out she had this huge crush on me, but gave up because I had a boyfriend, then while I was dating him, realized I had feelings for her that were stronger and I left him, but she had already been seeing another girl. It had gone on for years (as I was wrestling with my sexuality), but even while she was seeing this other girl, she would still act as if she had feelings for me. She always would say that she would always come back to me, as well as do things like cuddle with me, and nibble on my ear, and we've made out a few times. It had been on and off with her girlfriend until she recently finally left her (after three years of on-and-off), and she finally decided to give me a chance.

But that's not even where it gets complicated. I'm in the U.S. and she recently went to New Zealand to study foreign languages, and on top of that, got a transfer from there to go to Japan to study Japanese, and she'll be there for 2 years. That's all fine and good, because whether or not she'd be there, I want to go to Japan to teach English and study the comic market, and I thought that was one good reason we were getting together. However, she's had her umpteenth bout of cold feet about me, and suddenly wants to just be friends again. She's known for years that I've been in love with her, and it's felt for a while like she was just emotionally cheating on her ex with me. I've tried to get over her, and the last time I asked out a girl, she got really jealous and that's when we decided to get more serious about this. She's back here in the states for three months now, and since she decided (without even talking to me about it first) to be friends again, we had a huge fight because I don't know if I can be friends with her again after feeling so rejected. So, she wants to talk to me after Thanksgiving about all this, and I persuaded her not to make up her mind as of yet, but she probably already has.

It's not so much being devastated because of rejection, but so much that I'm upset that she isn't even giving me a fair chance. She's said, "I can see us being friends forever, but I don't know if I could spend my life with you," and I'm confused because we haven't even gone out on one date. Sure, we're good friends, but I've had to keep up an emotional barrier for a lot of it because I didn't want to get hurt (although, here I am), and so I feel like she's unfairly judging me before she's got to know me romantically. I think she's jumping to insane conclusions. I liken it to walking up to someone in a bar and asking them how they feel about kids. She's asking questions I don't have answers to yet, and I'm just really hurt she makes these decisions without asking me how I feel, or telling me how she feels. I was happy to have a chance to be myself entirely around her, but now I feel like she just wants me to stuff everything up in a box and ignore it like before. I want closure, and I want her to give me a chance, because I feel if we just pursued it, even if finding it wouldn't work out, I'd be okay because I'd know it just wasn't meant to be. If that was the case, I would be okay being her friends again, but the way it is, I feel hurt and ignored, and of course, you can't be around someone when you feel that way, and try to be a friend to them. I know I'd just end up resenting her that way, but it's important to her that I stay close in her life.

So, what do I do? What do you think? I'm really confused, and I just want to persuade her to see how it goes, and if it doesn't work out, it'll be fine, but would she end up resenting me for that? I don't want to make an ultimatum that goes, "Date me or I'm gone," but rather, "Give me a chance, and don't make up your mind yet." I've never cared about anyone so much before, and I need some outside perspective. She'd always been afraid of tampering with our friendship because I'm essentially the closest one to her other than her cousin, and I want her to know I'll be there for her, but it's just so difficult with what she's doing to me, if not impossible without going crazy.

 

[blankedboy]

Tell her she's thinking way too far ahead. Try to have a civil discussion about it... if you care as much as you say about her, then you should at least be reasonable about it.

[sub]Whooo it's about time someone bi made an advice thread on this website [/sub]

 

[Infinatex]

Wait it out. It sound like if you can make it work then it'll be worth it. General rule of thumb, if something is easy it not usually worth having.

 

[Amazigh]

I'd say stick with it and see how it goes. Maybe try asking her why she's come to the conclusion that she has, but keeping calm is definately key to that, otherwise it might sound like you are demanding.

If all those questions are making you feel uncomfortable, try telling her you want to take it slow, to enjoy every moment with her to the fullest, and that you really care about her, but you need time to think about those questions, as to make the right answer first time.


I hope things get better, it must be a horrible situation to be in

 

[Sneaklemming]

From the evidence you've given us, based on her history she doesn't seem like the type to take relationships seriously. On and off for three years? There are alarm bells going off everywhere from here to the end of the street.

Get out of there - move on.

 

[zombiesinc]

... and I'm just really hurt she makes these decisions without asking me how I feel, or telling me how she feels. I was happy to have a chance to be myself entirely around her, but now I feel like she just wants me to stuff everything up in a box and ignore it like before. I want closure, and I want her to give me a chance, because I feel if we just pursued it, even if finding it wouldn't work out, I'd be okay because I'd know it just wasn't meant to be. If that was the case, I would be okay being her friends again, but the way it is, I feel hurt and ignored, and of course, you can't be around someone when you feel that way, and try to be a friend to them. I know I'd just end up resenting her that way, but it's important to her that I stay close in her life.

Tell her this, maybe not word for word, but simply saying how you feel about the situation, and how her choices are being interpreted by you, and how they're making you feel. Perhaps letting her know these things will convince her to give you two a chance. At the very least she'll be able to understand where you're coming from. Though, I wouldn't use the word love, at all. If she's unsure about even giving you two a shot, it has to do with how much history you two have, and possibly the fact that you love her. Love is a huge word, with so much weight behind it and you can still be honest without using that word. It's very likely that if you do, you'll definitely push her away.

So, what do I do? What do you think? I'm really confused, and I just want to persuade her to see how it goes, and if it doesn't work out, it'll be fine, but would she end up resenting me for that? I don't want to make an ultimatum that goes, "Date me or I'm gone," but rather, "Give me a chance, and don't make up your mind yet." I've never cared about anyone so much before, and I need some outside perspective. She'd always been afraid of tampering with our friendship because I'm essentially the closest one to her other than her cousin, and I want her to know I'll be there for her, but it's just so difficult with what she's doing to me, if not impossible without going crazy.

She seems like someone who is thinking a lot about your possible future together, and her own. She isn't being unfair about this though, because she has every right to consider the consequences or results of her choices in her own life. Just let her know that you feel she's looking into it a little too much, because all you're asking for is a chance. Let her know that you would love for a relationship to work (being honest) but you understand the situation between the two of you, and you're happy with only taking it one day at a time. Start with a date, and go from there. No expectations, no pressure.

Ultimately though, if she doesn't wish to give it a shot, it'll just be something you'll have to accept. It'll be much harder to get past your feelings for her if it goes this way, but unfortunately, you'll just have to work through it. If you don't feel you can continue being such a close friend because you love her too much, it may be best that you give yourself some space. The distance will make this easier. Perhaps as time goes on you'll find yourself getting over her. When or if you reach this stage, depending on how things go, you may find yourself willing to be friends with her again, without the hurt or feeling of rejection/regret.

 

[bluepilot]

I think you should just pack up your bags and go off to Japan like you planned. I live in Osaka and have the miserable life of a post grad but there are many people here who have a great time teaching English.

I can understand that you want closure, but the thing about closure is that sometimes it can take several years to get there.

Plan your own life and if she wants to come along for the ride that is her choice.

Remember an old Greek saying 'eyes apart soon forget each other' and then there is Tokyo nightlife

 

[BonsaiK]

I'll try my best to keep this as short as I can, but no promises: it's a long story.

I've been romantically entangled with a best friend from high school for years, but it's always been really complicated. At first, it turned out she had this huge crush on me, but gave up because I had a boyfriend, then while I was dating him, realized I had feelings for her that were stronger and I left him, but she had already been seeing another girl. It had gone on for years (as I was wrestling with my sexuality), but even while she was seeing this other girl, she would still act as if she had feelings for me. She always would say that she would always come back to me, as well as do things like cuddle with me, and nibble on my ear, and we've made out a few times. It had been on and off with her girlfriend until she recently finally left her (after three years of on-and-off), and she finally decided to give me a chance.

But that's not even where it gets complicated. I'm in the U.S. and she recently went to New Zealand to study foreign languages, and on top of that, got a transfer from there to go to Japan to study Japanese, and she'll be there for 2 years. That's all fine and good, because whether or not she'd be there, I want to go to Japan to teach English and study the comic market, and I thought that was one good reason we were getting together. However, she's had her umpteenth bout of cold feet about me, and suddenly wants to just be friends again. She's known for years that I've been in love with her, and it's felt for a while like she was just emotionally cheating on her ex with me. I've tried to get over her, and the last time I asked out a girl, she got really jealous and that's when we decided to get more serious about this. She's back here in the states for three months now, and since she decided (without even talking to me about it first) to be friends again, we had a huge fight because I don't know if I can be friends with her again after feeling so rejected. So, she wants to talk to me after Thanksgiving about all this, and I persuaded her not to make up her mind as of yet, but she probably already has.

It's not so much being devastated because of rejection, but so much that I'm upset that she isn't even giving me a fair chance. She's said, "I can see us being friends forever, but I don't know if I could spend my life with you," and I'm confused because we haven't even gone out on one date. Sure, we're good friends, but I've had to keep up an emotional barrier for a lot of it because I didn't want to get hurt (although, here I am), and so I feel like she's unfairly judging me before she's got to know me romantically. I think she's jumping to insane conclusions. I liken it to walking up to someone in a bar and asking them how they feel about kids. She's asking questions I don't have answers to yet, and I'm just really hurt she makes these decisions without asking me how I feel, or telling me how she feels. I was happy to have a chance to be myself entirely around her, but now I feel like she just wants me to stuff everything up in a box and ignore it like before. I want closure, and I want her to give me a chance, because I feel if we just pursued it, even if finding it wouldn't work out, I'd be okay because I'd know it just wasn't meant to be. If that was the case, I would be okay being her friends again, but the way it is, I feel hurt and ignored, and of course, you can't be around someone when you feel that way, and try to be a friend to them. I know I'd just end up resenting her that way, but it's important to her that I stay close in her life.

So, what do I do? What do you think? I'm really confused, and I just want to persuade her to see how it goes, and if it doesn't work out, it'll be fine, but would she end up resenting me for that? I don't want to make an ultimatum that goes, "Date me or I'm gone," but rather, "Give me a chance, and don't make up your mind yet." I've never cared about anyone so much before, and I need some outside perspective. She'd always been afraid of tampering with our friendship because I'm essentially the closest one to her other than her cousin, and I want her to know I'll be there for her, but it's just so difficult with what she's doing to me, if not impossible without going crazy.

The way you are looking at the situation, you are saying "don't permanently relegate me to friendship status when you've never given me a shot at a serious relationship". What she's saying is "I don't want to committ to a relationship when I don't know if I'll always feel that way about you". In other words, she knows you're serious about her, and because of that, she doesn't want to get romantically involved, because she feels that it's highly likely she'll let you down at some point in the future. She knows that's going to hurt you way more than if she just says no for now. Kudos to her - she's making a responsible decision to minimise the damage that she could potentially do to your feelings. On the other hand, if she knew that you weren't in love with her but just wanted a fling, she'd probably happily jump into bed with you, safe in the knowledge that she (probably) wouldn't hurt your feelings down the track in a couple of months time if she decided that you weren't really the one for her.

I understand that you love her, but she's not in that same place that you are. There is nothing you can do about this. You could wait and see how it goes if you wanted, but I dare say that if she's been sketchy up until now it'll remain that way in the future, it's not like she hasn't had time to make up her mind about you after all.

A word of warning, if you fall out of love with her and then she suddenly shows more interest in you, it's not mixed messages. Remember what I said above - someone who isn't in love with her is less of a threat, because what she really doesn't want is to lock herself in with you forever, or certainly not at this stage of her life - so under those circumstances she might happily have some fun with you as long as she was convinced that it wouldn't lead anywhere. Look at it from her perspective, she's travelling the world, doing awesome stuff, she wants to explore and keep her options open for now. The time may come for her to settle down into one particular thing but it won't be soon by the looks of it. At least she's acknowledging this and being straight with you about it.

 

[enzilewulf]

That was confusing but what I can gather is this. She is confused to weather she can be with you or not. I would just leave as planned, if she gets mad that you just left you can easily counter with she was deciding things without even telling you as well. In all honesty it sounds like this is eating up most of your life. Take it from me. She will never be out of your mind, but eventually someone better comes. Thats how it went with me.

 

[Redtiebear]

I'll try my best to keep this as short as I can, but no promises: it's a long story.

I've been romantically entangled with a best friend from high school for years, but it's always been really complicated. At first, it turned out she had this huge crush on me, but gave up because I had a boyfriend, then while I was dating him, realized I had feelings for her that were stronger and I left him, but she had already been seeing another girl. It had gone on for years (as I was wrestling with my sexuality), but even while she was seeing this other girl, she would still act as if she had feelings for me. She always would say that she would always come back to me, as well as do things like cuddle with me, and nibble on my ear, and we've made out a few times. It had been on and off with her girlfriend until she recently finally left her (after three years of on-and-off), and she finally decided to give me a chance.

But that's not even where it gets complicated. I'm in the U.S. and she recently went to New Zealand to study foreign languages, and on top of that, got a transfer from there to go to Japan to study Japanese, and she'll be there for 2 years. That's all fine and good, because whether or not she'd be there, I want to go to Japan to teach English and study the comic market, and I thought that was one good reason we were getting together. However, she's had her umpteenth bout of cold feet about me, and suddenly wants to just be friends again. She's known for years that I've been in love with her, and it's felt for a while like she was just emotionally cheating on her ex with me. I've tried to get over her, and the last time I asked out a girl, she got really jealous and that's when we decided to get more serious about this. She's back here in the states for three months now, and since she decided (without even talking to me about it first) to be friends again, we had a huge fight because I don't know if I can be friends with her again after feeling so rejected. So, she wants to talk to me after Thanksgiving about all this, and I persuaded her not to make up her mind as of yet, but she probably already has.

It's not so much being devastated because of rejection, but so much that I'm upset that she isn't even giving me a fair chance. She's said, "I can see us being friends forever, but I don't know if I could spend my life with you," and I'm confused because we haven't even gone out on one date. Sure, we're good friends, but I've had to keep up an emotional barrier for a lot of it because I didn't want to get hurt (although, here I am), and so I feel like she's unfairly judging me before she's got to know me romantically. I think she's jumping to insane conclusions. I liken it to walking up to someone in a bar and asking them how they feel about kids. She's asking questions I don't have answers to yet, and I'm just really hurt she makes these decisions without asking me how I feel, or telling me how she feels. I was happy to have a chance to be myself entirely around her, but now I feel like she just wants me to stuff everything up in a box and ignore it like before. I want closure, and I want her to give me a chance, because I feel if we just pursued it, even if finding it wouldn't work out, I'd be okay because I'd know it just wasn't meant to be. If that was the case, I would be okay being her friends again, but the way it is, I feel hurt and ignored, and of course, you can't be around someone when you feel that way, and try to be a friend to them. I know I'd just end up resenting her that way, but it's important to her that I stay close in her life.

So, what do I do? What do you think? I'm really confused, and I just want to persuade her to see how it goes, and if it doesn't work out, it'll be fine, but would she end up resenting me for that? I don't want to make an ultimatum that goes, "Date me or I'm gone," but rather, "Give me a chance, and don't make up your mind yet." I've never cared about anyone so much before, and I need some outside perspective. She'd always been afraid of tampering with our friendship because I'm essentially the closest one to her other than her cousin, and I want her to know I'll be there for her, but it's just so difficult with what she's doing to me, if not impossible without going crazy.

The way you are looking at the situation, you are saying "don't permanently relegate me to friendship status when you've never given me a shot at a serious relationship". What she's saying is "I don't want to committ to a relationship when I don't know if I'll always feel that way about you". In other words, she knows you're serious about her, and because of that, she doesn't want to get romantically involved, because she feels that it's highly likely she'll let you down at some point in the future. She knows that's going to hurt you way more than if she just says no for now. Kudos to her - she's making a responsible decision to minimise the damage that she could potentially do to your feelings. On the other hand, if she knew that you weren't in love with her but just wanted a fling, she'd probably happily jump into bed with you, safe in the knowledge that she (probably) wouldn't hurt your feelings down the track in a couple of months time if she decided that you weren't really the one for her.

I understand that you love her, but she's not in that same place that you are. There is nothing you can do about this. You could wait and see how it goes if you wanted, but I dare say that if she's been sketchy up until now it'll remain that way in the future, it's not like she hasn't had time to make up her mind about you after all.

A word of warning, if you fall out of love with her and then she suddenly shows more interest in you, it's not mixed messages. Remember what I said above - someone who isn't in love with her is less of a threat, because what she really doesn't want is to lock herself in with you forever, or certainly not at this stage of her life - so under those circumstances she might happily have some fun with you as long as she was convinced that it wouldn't lead anywhere. Look at it from her perspective, she's travelling the world, doing awesome stuff, she wants to explore and keep her options open for now. The time may come for her to settle down into one particular thing but it won't be soon by the looks of it. At least she's acknowledging this and being straight with you about it.

I think you definitely zeroed in on her perspective, which has been difficult for me to wrap my head around so neatly. The reason I'm not incredibly mad at her is because I know she's doing this for the benefit of the two of us, and the seriousness of my commitment highlights her cold feet about this.

I finally had the talk with her last night, and I told her with or without her, I'm going to Japan, and the issue of a long-distance relationship never came up again, but she did say that the interaction between us in the past few months was becoming so much like a relationship, she got scared and ran off. We've both stated we're going to do our best to fix this however we can, but we haven't budged in either of our decisions. I believe you've hit the nail on the head, and as for myself, I realize this has been difficult for me, chiefly because she told me a while back, while I was still keeping a barrier emotionally between us, that I could never scare her away with my feelings, so I should be open about it. I was, and we were fine, and then this happened, and I told her that I felt abandoned because in the end, it was that she did run away. I realize the hurt stems from when I was a kid, my parents were somewhat abusive, and I didn't fit into school so well until high school and finally made a lot of friends, but I had the mindset that if even my parents didn't love me, who could, and I blocked out sharing my feelings with people, thinking if they knew me, they wouldn't like what they saw, and if they knew how I felt, they could use it against me. I was afraid if I was open with her (before she told me to be open and she would accept it), she would see me, and ultimately reject me for me, and now it's hard to be honest with her. I really want to be, if only to fix this, but I don't feel now like I can share everything again. She's the only person I've ever believed in this much to accept me, but now I see it's completely backfired. I guess I think it also sucks because while she was completely aware of my feelings for her, she would tell me everything about her relationships, with her ex and with any other girls she'd been with, and I did my best to listen to her and be accommodating without trying to resent what was happening, but I don't feel like she's done much of the same for me. But, at the same time, I understand she's only tried to make the best decisions possible, and I feel like we're caught up in a giant case of Nash equilibrium.

She's always had problems trusting people, and when we spoke, I told her that this idea of being in a relationship or not is a superficial problem, when the real problem is that at some point, I think we stopped really talking to each other, honestly and compassionately. I think first we need to learn to understand each other and talk again, and maybe we'll figure it out as we go along. But I know we're going to have to meet in the middle somewhere; it's just hard when I've lost confidence in her acceptance of me and that inhibits my capacity to be truthful, and that she's been afraid to hurt me, she couldn't even talk to me in the first place.

Thanks for being really frank. I've never thought of her perspective so clearly.

 

[Redtiebear]

Wait it out. It sound like if you can make it work then it'll be worth it. General rule of thumb, if something is easy it not usually worth having.

I'd say stick with it and see how it goes. Maybe try asking her why she's come to the conclusion that she has, but keeping calm is definately key to that, otherwise it might sound like you are demanding.

If all those questions are making you feel uncomfortable, try telling her you want to take it slow, to enjoy every moment with her to the fullest, and that you really care about her, but you need time to think about those questions, as to make the right answer first time.


I hope things get better, it must be a horrible situation to be in

Sorry for the back-to-back post, ya'll: I thought if I looped it in with the last one, it'd just get too ridiculous.

Yeah, she asked me what she could do to give me closure, and I knew at that moment if I implored her to give me a chance, she would have, but it wouldn't have been the right thing to do, so I just told her to give me as much as she's willing to give. I don't need any shotgun decisions happening, so it's still very much up in the air. She's coming over to my apartment again on Tuesday with our mutual best friend, so we'll see how it pans out this time. Time is definitely a key factor, and I do honestly think that, in 3 years, she has never spent time outside of a relationship. I mean, when she did break up with her ex-girlfriend, it was that she was hopping into a relationship with someone else, etc., etc., but from what I've gathered, having spent time enough being single is that it's time you take to figure out who you are and what you want, without another person. I do think she needs that time, as she's not always sure of what she wants. She said that she wants to help me and protect me, which is why, I think, she's treated me more kindly, in a sense, than her ex-girlfriend (especially because she would tell her absolutely nothing), and I told her that I wouldn't abandon her, so we're very committed to doing the right thing for each other...If only we could figure out what that would be. I've always considered the capacity for people who care about each other, because it's the people that you care about the most that may ultimately hurt you the most, but it's inevitable as a condition of being human: therefore, a proper relationship isn't conducted as one that's expected to be perfect and without harm, but one based on the lengths of how much one is willing to be good to another, and how much one is willing to forgive. In this sense, I believe we still have a good relationship with each other, but are having a terrible time in the muck trying to understand what is good for another, and if it's possible to forgive as readily as we would like to.

I think for the both of us, we need to perhaps give each other space and some time, and if there's anything romantic left between us, cheers, it was meant to be, but if not, we'll have some sense by then.

Thanks for the replies, everyone. If you're still interested, I'll tell you how it goes when I see her next.

 

[dmase]

Gonna be honest don't know many lesbians but here is a straight male perspective(besides give guys a chance again ;P). Long distance relationships are hard, i know this because i'm faced with one where for 8 months out of the year or so i don't see my gf except for about once a month or so. This international divide for so long, most likely solid, won't let an iffy relationship last.

 

[rutger5000]

Sorry to say this, but I'm with the other girl on this. That girl has been given the awesome chance to go on a great adventure. Of course she would go. The reason why she isn't bringing you along is because that would be a huge step in your relationship. And since you haven't even dated yet, she rightfully thinks that your relationship isn't ready for it.
It sounds really cold, but you just waited too long. No wonder she ementionally cheated with her ex. The girl wanted a girlfriend, and you apparently didn't want to date.
From my point of view the best thing you can do is apologize and try again. But don't be surprised if you never become more then friends again. That ship has sailed, and you have to be damn lucky if it comes back to pick you up.