Poll: Thoughts on level caps?

[Cthulhu's Priest]

I've always felt that the level cap on a game is detrimental to the longevity of a game, yes there's that feeling of accomplishment after you finally reach the highest level but then what next? No matter what quests I do (story or side) I don't feel like I'm doing anything, which is the reason I stopped playing Fallout 3 for a while, yes trudging through the wastes and exploring everything was fun but ended up being ultimately boring since there was no feeling of accomplishment or improvement for my character, just endless hordes of Supermutant Overlords. After leaving Fallout 3 to gather dust for a while I found a mod that removed the level cap, so I loaded up Fallout 3 and started have fun because I had an actual sense of progress and improving in proportion to my enemies.


So, what are your views on level cap systems?

 

[iJosh]

Once you reached max level, the game just gets really boring. Played Dekaron and maxed the level. Then I quit because it was boring.

 

[LitleWaffle]

Well, the only game i ever played with level caps was guild wars, and in that game it was pretty nessescary. You still sort of leveled up, but your stats didn't increase, you just got another skill point. I guess this is good since you can still get your character new skills, but you never get too good to take out a huge boss by yourself. Instead you get nessescary skills to increase your effectiveness in a party to strategically take down a monster.

I haven't played fallout 3 much since i don't own it, so i'm not sure how terrible a level cap is on it.

 

[LongAndShort]

I don't like limits, unless its something impossible to ever reach and just there for aesthetic purposes.

 

[Susurrus]

It's a double-edged sword. Take away the level cap and the player becomes almost god-like in their power, and that's not interesting. Keep the level cap, and in a game as free in content as fallout 3, you're suddenly very restricted.

In a game where min/maxing is often done (DnD games, I'm looking at you), i think level cap is necessary. When its more freeform.. well... I don't know. It would be cool if there were other talents you could gain, other than ones that directly make the game easier. Something like fallout1/2/3's bloody mess, but without the increased damage. But then, do you really want devs expending time on things that aren't truly relevant?

Perhaps an interesting way to combat it would be to have degredation of skills over time, depending on use, and the amount of extra points poured in. So that you can never be superhuman in all areas? That way no level cap could mean you just keep re-tweaing a character.

 

[Hurr Durr Derp]

Level caps, especially in multiplayer games, are necessary to keep a sense of balance. If there is no level cap, then your system needs to be able to scale endlessly, which is a nightmare. You could create a sort of soft cap by either giving diminishing returns or by scaling up the amount of xp needed enormously, but that's the worst of both worlds.

One of the reasons Guild Wars was (and is) so awesome was the low, easy-to-reach level cap of 20. Everyone could reach 20 in a very short time, after which the playing field was more or less entirely level. There's no need to worry about lvl60 players killing lvl40 players when everyone is lvl20. At the level cap you could stop worrying about your level (and armor, because by that time you could usually already afford the best armor), and start fine-tuning your character by gathering new skills, inscriptions, insignias, etc. It made the game (especially the PvP) more about how good your build was and how skilled you were at using it than about how much time you spent grinding for xp and loot.

In singleplayer games, it depends. In most open-world RPGs like the Bethesda games, there is no definitive end to the gameplay, so it feels limiting that there is a definitive end to the character development. Still, by the time you hit the max level you're already unbeatable so I don't really see the point in removing the level cap altogether. In other games, especially ones where the enemy's levels don't scale to yours, removing the level cap would only make the game way too easy for people with an MMO mentality who enjoy mindlessly grinding mobs all day.

 

[Teze]

I don't mind level caps. Personally half my games have them. I only just noticed how much i don't notice them...

 

[Susurrus]

Well, that may be true, but how true would that be to say, fallout or oblivion's policy of keeping the enemies levelled with the character (sure, its an annoying policy, but there it is).

At any rate, the kind of game that does that, in my opinion, is sacrificing story for gameplay. Thats not necessarily a bad thing, but it does depend on the game.

The other thing is what the developer thinks of his play-base. If he creates 30 levels that maybe 5% of players are going to use, the time would be better spent doing really cool/useful things, like, say, creating more spells/ability for use at lower levels. Creating nearly half the number of normal levels for the potentially small group who can be bothered to grind for every last bit of XP is a waste of valuable time.

I've played both Baldur's Gate I & II, and NWN2, for example, and whilst the level cap in BG2 is restricting because
a) gaining extra levels makes one no more OP than at hitting the level cap, and by ToB balance was completely gone anyway.
b) It was almost inevitable that one would hit the level cap way before the end of the game
I never once found it a problem in NWN2, because even though i played the game multiple times, I never hit the level cap.

 

[Lazy Kitty]

They're necessary, because developers can't create an infinite amount of content to unlock by leveling up. (skills, abilities...) (Limited development time and limited amount of ideas for content)

Often the level cap doesn't matter to me because the game is beaten long before reaching the level cap.

Then there's also the matter of the computer not being able to store a variable with an infinity of bits...

 

[Celtic Cynic]

It only annoys me when I am unable to max out my skills as in Mass Effect 2 you are limited to maxing out only a few chosen skills. The level cap wouldn't bother meif the skills could be filled with the amount of skill points you earn in the game. Rather than having to look at half empty bars and having one point left to spend on nothing cause to level up the next skill you need two points.

 

[Keepitclean]

A good game will have continue to allow you to upgrade until the game gets boring for most. Or so I have found in my own expirience.

 

[Sronpop]

I found with Fallout 3, that I was overpowered once you get about level 23/24, nothing is a challenge any more after that. I bought and played the game, after most of the expansions came out and bought most together(bundle packs ftw) so getting capped at 20 wasn't a problem for me, but I could see how it would be, especially with the lack of being able to play after the story is done. I haven't played all of the expansions yet, but when I left it, I think I was at level 29(not capped yet) and enemies just weren't a challenge. Even the perks I lost real value as all the important one had already been gotten and I just found myself picking the 'fun' ones because there was nothing left.

All in all, the game needs to be perfectly balanced, so the player is always challenged, always progressing and getting powerful, yet never becomes invincible.

I liked the way UFC undisputed handled it. You train your cardio, strenth, and eh, skill I think it was. But 1 could never get too high without it affecting the others. Once you get to about the 90 mark, raising your strength by one costs you 2 in your cardio etc. Its not the same as a level cap I know, but something similar could be applied to games with a leveling system.

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

Disgaea gives you a ridiculous cap that only the most hardcore players will every see...

I don't mind caps, myself. I restart games when I hit them and try something new.

 

[HellbirdIV]

Assuming that this refers exclusively to single-player games, I'll say that if you don't stop at some point, the game will either need to balance its content to your additional levels (rendering new levels entirely moot) or have everything become ridiculously easy towards the end.

So yeah, level caps serve a purpose. DLC and expansions can extend the level cap, at best.

 

[Super Toast]

In MMO's, they're necessary. Otherwise, not so much.