Simple question. Do you think Michael Jackson was guilty of any of the child molestation allegations made against him?
Poll: Was Michael Jackson guilty?
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I doubt it, if you look at the history of the claimants they had a dubious habit of going after famous people for litigation money. The vast majority of the kids Jackson hung out with have never reported anything untoward. Just shines a light on an ugly attitude of modern society really, that to many people a man can't like children without having some dark ulterior motive.
Er...that doesn't mean anything. Not saying he's guilty, but not molesting lots of kids doesn't automatically mean he didn't molest any.JoJo said:
Yeah, there's a problem with this. OTOH, people jump to those conclusions based on fairly justified fears, Look at Jimmy Saville or Rolf Harris.JoJo said:
I'm neither a defence attorney nor a prosecutor so how the hell should I know?
How should anyone? I can link you an interesting article however.
http://www.cracked.com/article_20981_5-ways-were-making-pedophilia-worse.html
If the media surrounding him was less vitriolic and saw things less black and white, then maybe if he was one he would have committed to treatment. Just a thought, you know.
A guess is just a guess and really just pointless in this context. He was tried and he was not convicted for anything. It's then very likely that he was, in fact, found to be innocent. But who knows? He's dead now so no one can really do much more of anything to him.
* You can bet your ass that pun was intended.
How should anyone? I can link you an interesting article however.
http://www.cracked.com/article_20981_5-ways-were-making-pedophilia-worse.html
If the media surrounding him was less vitriolic and saw things less black and white, then maybe if he was one he would have committed to treatment. Just a thought, you know.
A guess is just a guess and really just pointless in this context. He was tried and he was not convicted for anything. It's then very likely that he was, in fact, found to be innocent. But who knows? He's dead now so no one can really do much more of anything to him.
* You can bet your ass that pun was intended.
Not sure. The claimants turned out to be rather dubious as I recall.
Maybe it was just beause of his sheer popularity, but that particular stink never quite stuck.
I will say that he sure as fuck didn't do himself any favours with that one interview. "Sharing your bed with a child is the most beautiful thing a man can do." That is not something you want to say... well, ever, but especially not into a microphone in front of a camera.
Maybe it was just beause of his sheer popularity, but that particular stink never quite stuck.
I will say that he sure as fuck didn't do himself any favours with that one interview. "Sharing your bed with a child is the most beautiful thing a man can do." That is not something you want to say... well, ever, but especially not into a microphone in front of a camera.
Especially when the world already thinks you're crazy.Zhukov said:
I think he just never grew up. That or that he tried to be the best father ever for all kids, but couldn't create or maintain a healthy romantic relationship. Even though, yeah, that quote is all kinds of awkward.
Maybe he just didn't understand but just wanted to express that he want to give the physical closeness that he never got himself as a child. I'd reckon any parent has shared a bed with their child at some point.
But it's pointless to speculate. Whatever went through his mind he took with him to the grave. Whatever actually did happen I think just about anyone will agree that the whole affair was more sad than anything else.
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Of course, but we know that most child molesters are unable to exhibit much self-control and end up with a great number of victims. Look at Saville and Harris who you mention below, once the news broke there were lines of people coming forward to say they were also abused. It seems suspicious that Jackson would only abuse a couple of kids, who also happen to come from families with dubious histories about this sort of thing...thaluikhain said:
I don't know, this seems very similar to the argument you hear in this country about British Muslims "Look at these two Muslims who were terrorists, therefore we are justified to fear all of them!". Suspecting a whole demographic for the actions of a couple of wasters is bigotry, plain and simple.
He was unquestionably a weirdo with kids. Whether this ever turned into actual molestation, I can't be sure, but this certainly wasn't people just jumping at shadows. Though I doubt he ever reached Gary Glitter levels of incrimination, or even Jeffrey Jones.
Ah, I see what you mean, good point.JoJo said:
Er...people that like kids aren't really a demographic. Sure, people who are innocent are suspected, but that's because of their actions, not who they are.JoJo said:
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Perhaps, I was going to say I mean men in particular but then thinking about it I do actually vaguely know a woman in real life who was falsely accused of child abuse, so I suppose it goes for both. Though men seem to bear the brunt of it, at a place I used to work a female employee shared a shower with a child (of the same sex) and ended up not being invited back the next summer. Now, I wouldn't put it to the test but I bet if I or another male employee had tried that trick, we would still be jail nowthaluikhain said:
I recommend you guys to check out that Cracked link. It really is very informative and interesting (And in many ways awful for absolutely everyone).
It points out that there is an actual medical difference in the brain of paedophiles and also points out that not all of them molest children, Because they know those thoughts are not normal and restrain themselves. It also points out that not all that do molest children are a paedophile.
They are a child molester and reprehensible people, sure, but they might just be going for whatever was closest or the most vulnerable. What they do is motivated by a lust for power, rather than sexual lust, as messed up as that distinction may sound.
It's hard to fight the urge to hunt and burn these people at a stake due to our instinctive protectiveness of children (And you know, that morality thing), but maybe we should treat these people instead of condemning them.
http://www.cracked.com/article_20981_5-ways-were-making-pedophilia-worse.html
If it has proven to be a medical condition, it's better for everyone if they can figure out how to treat it.
It points out that there is an actual medical difference in the brain of paedophiles and also points out that not all of them molest children, Because they know those thoughts are not normal and restrain themselves. It also points out that not all that do molest children are a paedophile.
They are a child molester and reprehensible people, sure, but they might just be going for whatever was closest or the most vulnerable. What they do is motivated by a lust for power, rather than sexual lust, as messed up as that distinction may sound.
It's hard to fight the urge to hunt and burn these people at a stake due to our instinctive protectiveness of children (And you know, that morality thing), but maybe we should treat these people instead of condemning them.
http://www.cracked.com/article_20981_5-ways-were-making-pedophilia-worse.html
If it has proven to be a medical condition, it's better for everyone if they can figure out how to treat it.
I'm saying no. I know, I wasn't there. But there are a few reasons I think he was innocent.
1. There was money to be earned from accusing him.
2. He was a weirdo, so it was easy to make people believe accusations like these.
3. He was found innocent in court.
4. In the mind of the public, all men who love kids are pedophiles.
1. There was money to be earned from accusing him.
2. He was a weirdo, so it was easy to make people believe accusations like these.
3. He was found innocent in court.
4. In the mind of the public, all men who love kids are pedophiles.
Who really knows. It's one of those things where the allegation alone can ruin someone. Precisely for this reason. Even if found innocent, there will still be people clinging to the idea that the trials were flawed, and that he 'got away with it'
How do we really know though?
The case against him seemed kind of flimsy, though of course he didn't help himself with his childish behaviour at times, and some incredibly naive comments that people are very prone to misinterpreting...
To be honest, it doesn't take much.
I once had someone accuse me of all kinds of dubious things merely for saying I think it's sad that we are now so paranoid you can't so much as hug or comfort a crying child without people thinking the worst...
Apparently expressing an opinion of that nature makes me a peadophile... >_>
Yeah, this is not a topic you can have a reasonable conversation about...
How do we really know though?
The case against him seemed kind of flimsy, though of course he didn't help himself with his childish behaviour at times, and some incredibly naive comments that people are very prone to misinterpreting...
To be honest, it doesn't take much.
I once had someone accuse me of all kinds of dubious things merely for saying I think it's sad that we are now so paranoid you can't so much as hug or comfort a crying child without people thinking the worst...
Apparently expressing an opinion of that nature makes me a peadophile... >_>
Yeah, this is not a topic you can have a reasonable conversation about...
He wasn't suspected because he liked kids (though for most people, any man liking kids is reason to brand them a potential pedophile which is all kinds of fucked), he was suspected because he was eccentric and liked kids. And yes, fearing that someone who likes kids is a pedophile because they like kids is basically the same thing as labeling all muslims terrorists.thaluikhain said:
Hell, I don't even like kids, but if I were to say hi to some kid in a grocery store line with his parents right there, or tell someone I thought their kid was really nice, I'd be lucky if they didn't pull them close and give me hostile looks until I was far away from them. My wife who does like kids and is a daycare teacher does this all of the time though and it's perfectly fine. Because most people assume that a man is a potential child molester, but a woman is fine. Even though women molest children too. There is a very real double standard in society and it has nothing to do with liking kids and everything to do with the genitalia of the person that likes kids.
As for the Michael Jackson question, I don't know if he did it. All I know is that he was never found guilty of any charges to that effect so from my point of view and society's the question's moot. I only hope that if he did and it was just never proven that the victims found some peace eventually.
Michael Jackson had a disturbed mind... But I don't think he did it. Years of physical and mental abuse will do that to you. It can warp your mind into something.... Strange. On top of that he seemed to have other issues as well. Essentially, I think he was a man hold who never really grew up. I can't fault him too much, though, because I don't think it was really his fault, at least not entirely. Honestly, if he was guilty then I think we'd of had a lot more people come out of the woodwork.
Personally I don't think so. The behavior of the accusing parents was pretty sketchy, and as I understand it Michael's reaction to the investigation didn't line up with that exhibited by most child molesters who got caught. Personally, I think he was a literal manchild who had been really messed up by parental abuse and was trying to reclaim his childhood, but just didn't understand that the way he was going about it wasn't really socially acceptable.