Poll: White-Washing in Movies

[Thunderous Cacophony]

So this Christmas they're making a movie about the 47 Ronin, a real group of 18th-century Samurai who plotted revenge against the court official that had their master killed. It's a great story, famous in Japan and elsewhere as the ideal of loyalty and self-sacrifice that the samurai are supposed to represent.

It's also a swift kick to the nuts for people hoping that a movie about Japanese people would star Japanese people. While most of the cast is Japanese, the main character is going to be Keanu Reeves.

Spoiler: Yeah, that Keanu Reeves

Bear in mind that this in no way reflects the story as it either happened or is traditionally told; The writers of the movie created a new, half-British character for Reeves to play. The movie doesn't try to be realistic (there are giants and other fantastic elements) but this really makes me angry. There is no reason to add this character other than to give a major role to a white character for white audiences to identify with.

I will admit, I am biased when it comes to adding white characters or replacing other ethnicities with white people; I'm Indian in appearance, and growing up the only people who looked like me in movies were terrorists, shifty thieves and Aladdin (Who is Midwestern American with a tan), and while it was tiring, I'm getting happier at seeing television and movies becoming more diverse. With that said, I think this is a major failing on the part of the writers and studio; they had the opportunity to tell a good story, but they twisted it because they think so little of people that they don't think the audience will be able to handle not seeing someone like them.

So that's my little rant. I want to know what you think; should they have added a white character to the story (note the word "should", not "did they have a right to")? Are there instances of changing skin tones in media that really tick you off?

 

[davidmc1158_v1legacy]

My go-to movie for this is the old John Wayne film where a 6ft+ white westerner tried to play Genghis Khan. That's right, John Wayne playing a Mongolian!

For the sake of your own sanity, do not watch this film. If you want proof that it exists, just go to imdb, but do NOT watch this movie!

 

[SSJBlastoise]

I don't think they should have but they did because the simple fact that it would be easier to sell a movie with a well known Hollywood actor in it compared to an entire cast of lesser known/unknown actors. If you asked the majority of movie goers to name some Japanese actors most people would likely struggle to name some (I can't really think of any ).

I guess it's not quite as bad either because by the sounds of it he isn't playing a role that was originally a Japanese person but rather an added British character.

Edit: Corrected post so it says Japanese instead of Chinese. This is what happens when I am extremely tired, I don't read properly

 

[Scarim Coral]

Sure while I would prefer the lead character to be Japanese upon reading the event the film is based on but seeing how it won't be an accurate adaption then they can do whatever for all I cared.
I mean if you want to know the real story then you will look it up online or a book then to say the film is 100% accurate to the real event.

 

[Thaluikhain]

IMHO, if you want to make a movie about real events, then you should make them about, you know, real events.

In the case of white-washing however...there's quite a trend of marginalizing people of colour. Now, you can say they needed to put a white guy in, cause nobody would watch a movie about people who aren't white...but while that passes the buck on, there's still quite a problem.

 

[Requia]

My go-to movie for this is the old John Wayne film where a 6ft+ white westerner tried to play Genghis Khan. That's right, John Wayne playing a Mongolian!

For the sake of your own sanity, do not watch this film. If you want proof that it exists, just go to imdb, but do NOT watch this movie!

John Wayne probably looks more like Ghengis Kahn than whatever you have in your head, given that he was a redhead. The concept of him being east-asian is a product of the Chinese equivalent of white washing.

Though, I doubt the producers bothered to think that through, they just wanted a big star (which meant a white guy at the time John Wayne was working).

 

[davidmc1158_v1legacy]

My go-to movie for this is the old John Wayne film where a 6ft+ white westerner tried to play Genghis Khan. That's right, John Wayne playing a Mongolian!

For the sake of your own sanity, do not watch this film. If you want proof that it exists, just go to imdb, but do NOT watch this movie!

John Wayne probably looks more like Ghengis Kahn than whatever you have in your head, given that he was a redhead. The concept of him being east-asian is a product of the Chinese equivalent of white washing.

Though, I doubt the producers bothered to think that through, they just wanted a big star (which meant a white guy at the time John Wayne was working).

I was thinking of some of the more famous historical portraits, actually.
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcThwClcwi70Egd95utSyfdP-Y4iiY07z60D6nNAnS7EMrrJ8rsdiA
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRrWxVEUdJmZg62bMPY3mOc2mw8DG6aA_p0vAmzqEtnPfbcvKJBaQ
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSARO4xVeEve9htqFC5YFLfkbLm94Z4DcGobe1BPDr525h8KRE72w

All of them more than a little idealized, I know. But none of them even remotely tell me to cast someone who looks like John Wayne in the role.

 

[Requia]

I was thinking of some of the more famous historical portraits, actually.
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcThwClcwi70Egd95utSyfdP-Y4iiY07z60D6nNAnS7EMrrJ8rsdiA
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRrWxVEUdJmZg62bMPY3mOc2mw8DG6aA_p0vAmzqEtnPfbcvKJBaQ
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSARO4xVeEve9htqFC5YFLfkbLm94Z4DcGobe1BPDr525h8KRE72w

All of them more than a little idealized, I know. But none of them even remotely tell me to cast someone who looks like John Wayne in the role.

Problem is, those aren't accurate. They're asian-washing by putting those out. It's kinda like the white-Jesus thing. Jesus was sure as hell not, but tell that to the artists.

 

[TheLion]

I don't know who should be more insulted: the Japanese history buff (for obvious reasons), or the Western movie goer, because Hollywood thinks they're incapable of relating to people that aren't of European descent.

In the case of white-washing however...there's quite a trend of marginalizing people of colour. Now, you can say they needed to put a white guy in, cause nobody would watch a movie about people who aren't white...but while that passes the buck on, there's still quite a problem.

Fortunately, the Japanese are the least marginalized people of color, so the damage isn't as severe as it would be in other cases.

 

[madwarper]

It's also a swift kick to the nuts for people hoping that a movie about Japanese people would star Japanese people.

Oh, yeah? Remember the 1993 movie Little Buddha? Guess who played the role of the Siddhartha. I'll give you a clue...

Spoiler: Yeah, that Keanu Reeves

I want to know what you think; should they have added a white character to the story (note the word "should", not "did they have a right to")? Are there instances of changing skin tones in media that really tick you off?

I find internet responses to this situation is hypocritical.

Non-white role given to a white actor? Internet response: Rage!
White role given to a non-white actor? Internet response: Deal with it.

Myself, I couldn't really care about the race. If the actor does a good job in the role, then their race shouldn't matter.
Avatar didn't suck because Katara and Sokka were played by white actors, it sucked because it was a horrible movie.
Dare Devil didn't suck because the Kingpin was portrayed by a black actor, it sucked because it was a horrible movie.

 

[Ryotknife]

This seems more of a "STARPOWA!" issue than white washing. It sounds like they are tryng to do a Last Samurai V2.0.

That said white washing, in general, breaks the immersion for me.

 

[Nickolai77]

When the OP said they were throwing in some giants and other fantasy elements i felt then that white-washing wouldn't be a problem. If you're making a western rendition of a Japanese tale then changing its genre and the race of characters then fine- Rather like like how the Magnificent Seven is based on the Japanese film the Seven Samurai.

But then i looked up the the film on wikipedia: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/47_Ronin_(2013_film) It's quite clear they're setting it historically in Japan and the characters are supposed to be Japanese operating it what's clearly a culturally Japanese setting. It's stupid in my view to have white characters therefore, because it breaks the immersion and i think it's disrespectful to both the Japanese and Western audiences as well. Why do we need Western actors to portray a Japanese story? Won't we be able to mentally relate to Asian actors? Why shouldn't the Japanese be able to tell their own story to us?

 

[Lionsfan]

So this Christmas they're making a movie about the 47 Ronin, a real group of 18th-century Samurai who plotted revenge against the court official that had their master killed. It's a great story, famous in Japan and elsewhere as the ideal of loyalty and self-sacrifice that the samurai are supposed to represent.

It's also a swift kick to the nuts for people hoping that a movie about Japanese people would star Japanese people. While most of the cast is Japanese, the main character is going to be Keanu Reeves.

Spoiler: Yeah, that Keanu Reeves

Bear in mind that this in no way reflects the story as it either happened or is traditionally told; The writers of the movie created a new, half-British character for Reeves to play. The movie doesn't try to be realistic (there are giants and other fantastic elements) but this really makes me angry. There is no reason to add this character other than to give a major role to a white character for white audiences to identify with.

I will admit, I am biased when it comes to adding white characters or replacing other ethnicities with white people; I'm Indian in appearance, and growing up the only people who looked like me in movies were terrorists, shifty thieves and Aladdin (Who is Midwestern American with a tan), and while it was tiring, I'm getting happier at seeing television and movies becoming more diverse. With that said, I think this is a major failing on the part of the writers and studio; they had the opportunity to tell a good story, but they twisted it because they think so little of people that they don't think the audience will be able to handle not seeing someone like them.

So that's my little rant. I want to know what you think; should they have added a white character to the story (note the word "should", not "did they have a right to")? Are there instances of changing skin tones in media that really tick you off?

I think it's a little bit of a double edged sword.

The movies that make the most money are made by Americans, and for Americans.

And most Americans just won't see a movie with a bunch of foreigners in it. So unless this movie is gonna clean up at the awards, "playing it safe" is the only way to give it a shot.

Personally the thing that really breaks me is American-washing. I can handle the occasional star-washing (Invictus is another example, even though that movie sucked), but when the movie changes everybody to Americans, that grates my nerves

 

[SckizoBoy]

So that's my little rant. I want to know what you think; should they have added a white character to the story (note the word "should", not "did they have a right to")? Are there instances of changing skin tones in media that really tick you off?

Y'know, the irony of your complaint is that (& lifted from the wiki page):

According to Variety, Universal chose them (Japanese cast) to make the story more authentic instead of picking actors that would be recognizable in the United States.

LOL, WUT?! (At Universal, not you, that is.) Isn't Ken Watanabe a recognisable face in the west? What about Takeshi Kaneshiro? San-daime Nakamura Shidou?? The irony of those two actors is that I've seen them play Chinese characters more than Japanese! Anyway, at least Hiroyuki Sanada is in it... he's a good actor, let's hope this doesn't ruin his standing (with me, at least).

Anyway, it's like what they did to the Last Samurai, in shoehorning Tom Cruise into it. At least, in that case, there was a modicum of realism to it, insomuch that there was a western officer (Frenchman Jules Brunet) heavily involved, they albeit Americanised it. That and the recent Three Musketeers which went all steam-punk-y and ninja deWinter. -_-

Now, I won't be that annoyed with this whole fantasy take on it, so long as it was with Japanese folklore and mythology (basically, anything from stuff like Nurarihyon no Mago), it would at least be semi-enlightening regarding traditional Japanese tales, as well as entertainment. *shrug* I won't be holding my breath, certainly...

 

[Total LOLige]

I always thought Keanu Reeves looked a little bit Japanese to be honest. I bet you're crying 'white washing' because it's Keanu Reeves, an actor the internet deems as utter shite or just Neo. Also I've never heard white washing used in this context before, I've only heard it in sports where one team absolutely dominates. I don't think race should be an issue as long as the actor is capable, same goes for hiring big actors to get the film a bit of rep. It doesn't matter as long as they're capable.

I don't think they should have but they did because the simple fact that it would be easier to sell a movie with a well known Hollywood actor in it compared to an entire cast of lesser known/unknown actors. If you asked the majority of movie goers to name some Chinese actors most could probably only name Jackie Chan and Bruce lee.

I guess it's not quite as bad either because by the sounds of it he isn't playing a role that was originally a Chinese person but rather an added British character.

I think it's understandable that Lee and Chan would spring to mind because there aren't that many Chinese actors that appear in american film. Sure there are American-Chinese actors but it's not quite the same. How many Canadian actors do you know of the top of your head from Canadian productions? I'm guessing not that many and it's because we don't tend to stumble upon foreign media from out of our countries on TV. I do think that an effort should be made to get foreign media onto our screens then maybe we could actually have native actors portraying characters in these stories. Sorry, I might come across as though I'm ranting at you, I'm not.

 

[itsthesheppy]

This was a suit decision. Add a white character or Americans won't go see the movie.

Sad part? They might be kinda right. I mean there are the occasional surprise hits, like Rush Hour, that don't have a white leading character, but that was Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker at the zenith of their popularity. There are a handful of other examples but rare is the publisher willing to take that risk.

 

[Thunderous Cacophony]

This seems more of a "STARPOWA!" issue than white washing. It sounds like they are tryng to do a Last Samurai V2.0.

That could be it. (I was surprised that they don't have Ken Watanabe involved, as he has plenty of star power behind him.) However, they are also have Hiroyuki Sanada, who is familiar at least in appearance, if not name. There's also the fact that Keanu Reeves is not playing a bit part, but is leading the cast. THAT is especially grating, because it's not as though there is a shortage of Asian actors who are both capable of playing the main character and have enough recognition to draw in some audiences.

 

[Saviordd1]

Third answer for the "Who gives a flying shit"?

If its a good movie, its a good movie. If it sucks, it sucks. I don't care either way.

 

[tahrey]

Sounds deeply reminiscent of what they were going to do with the Akira live-action remake, until a combination of fan outcry, public indifference and development hell thankfully killed it. Keanu was up for playing a whitewashed Asian character in that as well. And oddly enough, The Matrix could be said to be an Americanised pastiche of Ghost in the Shell...

I would have boycotted that Akira film had it come out (maybe, if I got drunk enough, I would have pirated it and seen it that way, but no money would have changed hands at any point), and I think I might have to give this a swerve as well.

Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon did alright, didn't it?

 

[Ryotknife]

This seems more of a "STARPOWA!" issue than white washing. It sounds like they are tryng to do a Last Samurai V2.0.

That could be it. (I was surprised that they don't have Ken Watanabe involved, as he has plenty of star power behind him.) However, they are also have Hiroyuki Sanada, who is familiar at least in appearance, if not name. There's also the fact that Keanu Reeves is not playing a bit part, but is leading the cast. THAT is especially grating, because it's not as though there is a shortage of Asian actors who are both capable of playing the main character and have enough recognition to draw in some audiences.

Ken Watanabe does ring a few bells, but I had to look him up. Once I saw his picture I recognize him, although damned if I can actually list any movies I saw him in.

Kiroyuki Sanada didn't ring any bells, but I recognize his face as the villain of rush hour 3, but that is about it. In their country they might be famous, but here in the US I would bet hardly anyone recognizes them.