Poll: Who Here Understands What Peak Oil Is?

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lcyw20

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Sep 4, 2010
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So, Peak Oil. The definition quoted from Wikipedia on 21st May 2011 at 7:47am BST is "the point in time when the global production of oil will reach its maximum rate, after which production will gradually decline." Essentially, oil production increases over a period of time in any given nation, but the growth will gradually slow down, stop at a certain level, before finally dropping. This was predicted by the late M. King Hubbert, Quoting Wikipedia again, "M. King Hubbert created and first used the models behind peak oil in 1956 to accurately predict that United States oil production would peak between 1965 and 1970."

M. King Hubbert was a geoscientist who worked for Shell, so was very knowledgeable about production of oil and gas. So, this is old news. Nobody believed him at the time, and it turned out his theory was right. If it can be applied to America, then can it applied to other countries? It turns out yes, many oil-producing nations show very similar production patterns. I can say confidently that this can also apply to pretty much any other resource we get from the ground, but let's focus on oil.

For those of you still sceptical, here are a few hints. When oil industry says there is still plenty of oil in the ground, they probably are right, but they didn't mention that we probably won't be getting it out, simply because we can't. Big Oil may say they are unable to drill due to political and legal reasons--well that's a flat lie, it was only off-shore drilling that was put on hold in the Gulf of Mexico for merely six months after the BP spill, and if anything, there was less regulation since the 70's when American production peaked.

Also, you remember the old film footage where you simply dug a hole and oil came gushing out of the ground under its own pressure? Well, that is less likely to happen now. We find ourselves drilling in places today we would never consider 20 years ago, because it is too deep, too hard, too dangerous, too remote, and too expensive. Oil production has become more expensive, and we are getting less in return than before, this is a fact. Furthermore, there have been no MAJOR discoveries so far, so anything new we have found is hardly going to make a dent in oil production.

There is no way a sane, logical person can argue their way out of it. I can't cover everything here, but if any of you find anything that you think will put a hole in the theory, tell me, and I will see if I can provide an answer.
 

Alfador_VII

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Nov 2, 2009
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I did read this, and yes I do understand Peak Oil

I'm not quite sure what your point is. Nobody's really denying that at some point Global oil production will peak and then start to decline, and that it'll be for economic reasons, not just wells suddenly all running dry.

The only real dispute is when this will happen. I don't think it'll be this decade, I'm sure some don't even think it'll happen this century. I think that's fairly likely though.

EDIT: Also if this was meant to be a poll, I didn't see a vote thingy.
 

Altanese

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Mar 17, 2010
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All we have to do is wipe out all life on Earth, go into stasis for a few million years, then when we wake up BOOM, new oil!

Orrrrr, if Mars once had life... it probably has oil now! Space oil!

Or we could start making human oil with the increasingly fat children, and eat Irish orphans.*

The possibilities are limitless...

One Hit Noob said:
Meh, that is why Nuclear power is the newest thing!
The newest thing from the 1940s.

THE WORLD OF YESTERDAY'S FUTURE, TODAY!

*Kudos if you know what the cannibalization of impoverished Celtic youths is about.
 

LostTimeLady

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Dec 17, 2009
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Many countries such as the UK have reached peak oil and are now net importers. While many countries haven't yet reached peak oil production oil is a finite recorce and despite theories over hypothetical recouces the fact is that currently they are not reserves with modern technology. Yes, we're not likely to find any gushing new wells any time soon but globally, yeah, we're going to eventually hit peak oil production and that's when things'll start to get serious.
 

thiosk

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Sep 18, 2008
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I don't believe anyone who has a justin beiber avatar, like ALL of you do.


I don't get what your mission is here. To convince people that the supply of oil is finite? No one cares, not even the oil companies. Humanity will find, and extract, lots of burnable and reactive hydrocarbons-- in one form or another-- for the next several centuries. Regardless of ranty posts about big oil on videogame forums. Will those extracts be oil, primarily? No, it will be coal and methane. At the end of the day, no ones going to care. We'll go to Titan for the hydrocarbons if we have to.


Fun Prediction: When solar really starts getting good production going, some idiot is going to start writing on the internet about the evils of Big Solar.

Fun quote: "There has been an estimated forty year world supply of oil since the first oil well was drilled."
--Nate Lewis, Caltech
 

lcyw20

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Sep 4, 2010
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I see I may not have clarified the reason I started this thread. Allow me to clarify. The reason I have posted this is to see how well people on this forum understands the issue. To be honest, I am bit surprised. I was expecting a lot a cynicism and internet trolling I see a lot on Youtube, but this is much better. I was also hoping start a healthy discussion about, as the mass media has diligently tried to avoid even stringing "peak" and "oil", or portray it as "nonsense".

Also, I would like to point out we currently have no renewable resource that can come close substantially supplementing oil, let alone replace it, and that a lot of geologists are convinced that the effects of Peak Oil are imminent. Not in 100 years, not in 50, but likely within this decade.

I would also like to apologise to those who came in expecting a poll, as I did add one, but I am new to the forum and I possibly did something wrong to cause it to be left out.

thiosk, your dream of going to Titan is not very likely to happen, nor is the prospect of replacing oil with coal and gas a sustainable one. It merely delays the inevitable, so you might want to care a bit more about the upcoming energy crisis, as it will affect how you live, your transport, plastics, organic chemicals, fertilizers for farming, medicines, clothing... let's face it, we are addicted to oil, even your computer is almost completely made of oil derivatives, for which there are no major sources of substitutes. Sure, you can try going to Titan, but this is comparable to walking a full day every day from your village to fetch water. You may survive, but living conditions are going to be rotten.

One Hit Noob, nuclear looks like the way to go, except it has more than a few minor drawbacks. We currently don't have enough power plants running to supply us with enough electricity, they are expensive to build, don't break even in terms of energy return until years later, and those that are running a lot of them are way past their sell-by date, and should have been decommissioned, and so are dangerous, and finally, uranium is, like oil, finite. I did hear about using thorium, which so far seems to be near-ideal for electricity production, but I don't think it will do much in terms transportation unless people trade in their petrol and diesel vehicles for electric ones, which currently don't perform anywhere nearly as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium#Thorium_as_a_nuclear_fuel

Thorium is still in the works, and current projects indicate that it probably won't be our major source of energy for decades. We probably don't have decades.

The other brand is nuclear fusion, which is also safer than current nuclear power, but there are still creases that need to be ironed out, and I am not convinced we will have time for that.

Alfador_VII, I think you may be right in that economics will play a major part, as the economy is what will end up being devastated. It would no longer be viable or possible to get more oil out of the ground because we simply don't have the resources, and that it would be too expensive. Even if you did have the resources to drill, you would struggle to find a market to sell it.

Altanese, we could simply all go into stasis and LEAVE the wildlife alone, and let the world recover. We would have to be in stasis for BILLIONS of years though, and have you figured out how we are going to keep 60+ billion people frozen for that long? Where is the power coming from? I starting to think the idea in the Matrix trilogy may not be such a bad idea after all.

LostTimeLady, I do believe we are near the global peak if we haven't already passed it. The only main difficulty in determining this is the OPEC figures. The Saudis especially play their cards close to their chests, and we can only extrapolate from exports via the export-land model how much there is left.

The OPEC reserve figures are jokes, if you look at how they suddenly rose to around 2x the original amount around the 1980's and stayed there, in very neat figures, and even if they are real, how long before we use that up? If the biggest field in the world has peaked, the we are PRESENTLY in a very sticky situation.

The other way of finding out is the amount of discovery of new fields. I can sadly say that there was very little in the way of discovery, which has a strong correlation to production, delayed by only a number of years.
 

lcyw20

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Sep 4, 2010
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Dulcinea said:
Meh.

We'll all be dead or off the planet before it's a problem.
Not much survival instinct left in you, I take it? I suppose we are overdue for extinction as a species, but until that happens, I will have to keep doing what I can to stay alive.
 

Soviet Steve

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May 23, 2009
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I quite understand what peak oil is, but as we have to all other changes before it, I think we will adapt. Brian dunning put it into words better than I could though, so here's a link to the relevant podcast:

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4100
 

Thaluikhain

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Jan 16, 2010
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Well, there's still potential for new technological improvements. Coal liquification is an option being played with in a few places. Again, it doesn't solve the problem, of course, merely delays it, hopefully until an actual solution becomes viable. Likewise, extraction of oil from oil shale (sp?). Also, the extraction of oil may not be feasible in certain places now, that is not to say it will necessarily remain so tomorrow.
 

uc.asc

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Jun 27, 2009
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scumofsociety said:
Altanese said:
Or we could start making human oil with the increasingly fat children, and eat Irish orphans.*

*Kudos if you know what the cannibalization of impoverished Celtic youths is about.
It's from that dude that wrote a satire on how the irish could eat there children as a solution to poverty in the 1800's. Can't remember the name.
"A modest proposal"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal
 

BonsaiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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lcyw20 said:
So, Peak Oil.
I'm very well aware of the issues surrounding peak oil. It's not a society-breaking thing though, it's really not that big a deal. Humanity will be okay after peak oil. I've discussed at length why peak oil is not a major deal before in these forums so I won't repeat myself, but - yeah. Don't stress, if anything the changes that peak oil will bring about will be extremely positive for all mankind. I'm actually looking forward to it.
 

ralfy

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Apr 21, 2008
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Peak oil is a major deal because we will need the equivalent of one Saudi Arabia every seven years to just maintain current global economic growth. And oil discoveries peaked in 1964. The "easy oil" is gone, and what we have is dirtier oil and alternative sources of energy which provide lower EROIs.