Poll: Why we need economic regulation.

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Mathew952

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Feb 14, 2008
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You know how the republicans are constantly going on about "Deregulation" being the key to creating a strong economy?
Well,once upon a time in America's history, we had a completely unregulated economy. During the late 1800s and early 1900s, we had almost no regulations on the economy. Yay, everyone will be prosperous and wealthy! No!
What happened was, essentially, one company in each industry bought out or other wise destroyed all of it's competitors, then bought the rail roads used to ship it's products, then bought the raw material suppliers.they created monopolies, and pretty much could charge as much money as they wanted to.
But worse were the average middle class citizens. They were working in factories, living in private factory communities, being payed amounts less than a dollar a day. The companies had complete control over their lives, If they quit, they had almost no where else to go, and not only that, because they lived in factory housing, they also were out of a house.
Eventually, after many year of unionizing, and getting the government to actually do something, these companies were shrunk down and broken apart.

But the problem remains that if you leave the economy completely unregulated, the strongest (Richest) individuals will rise to the top and control everything, and everyone else will be destroyed.

I personally advocate the system we have set up now as being as close to perfect as were going to get, as soon as we figure out the health care issue. We have a system where the individual is still protected and can be treated fairly, however people can rise above the rest and achieve the fantastic wealth of the top 1%.
 

Booze Zombie

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Isn't the point of capitalism that one guy can claw his way to the top and make everyone else bow down to him? It's like insecure, materilistic people with god-complexes made it up or something... oh, wait.

Why don't we just let capitalism crumble and try to make something new?
 

Eyclonus

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Apr 12, 2008
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Complete deregulation can work within Rand economics, while the magical fairy of wonderful things descends from the hand of God to show Karl Marx the map which he will use to take us to the delightful land of marshmellows and jelly.
 

sneakypenguin

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the only regulation that is needed is anti monopoly/anti trust laws. Other than that the government should stay out.
Also what's wrong with the rich having power? If I work my butt off 60 hours a week to rise to the top shouldn't I have a bigger say(through influence) than John smith working at walmart as a stockboy?
 

Rolling Thunder

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Dec 23, 2007
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You already made one very dangerous enemy Khell- me. Without Rap, I wouldn't have the 'Crank that' Travis Barker remix. Or the Gorrilaz. Which would irk me to no end. And besides, Iam plotting to take over the world. I have a brain (a damn good one at that, though I say so myself), common sense, a small cabal, and, more importantly, a policy that does not offend nearly every black, hispanic (other minority groups).

Cover before the wrath of Marshal Fondant, for he is most cruel.
 

Alex_P

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If you want to see an example of "free market" capitalism, look at modern China. Not so hot...

-- Alex
 

sneakypenguin

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Alex_P post=18.73013.781592 said:
If you want to see an example of "free market" capitalism, look at modern China. Not so hot...

-- Alex
So a country where everything is government run is 'free market'?
 

Kagrath

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Aug 6, 2008
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If I remember my economics correctly the more a government likes to fuck with the economy(like tariff, tax etc)the more dead space and lost efficiency there is. All the government should do is slap around the trusts and monopolies because free markets have to stay competitive.

Here is the way the world works, big business is the crap that holds the world together no matter how much it stinks. You are not special, you are not unique. Get over it. Just smile and act like the peasant you are and get your meager amounts of money to live off of. The top two percent that hold ninety percent of America's income is not going to share it.

Sorry how scattered that is, but I'm going to sleep now.
 

Alex_P

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Mar 27, 2008
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sneakypenguin post=18.73013.781597 said:
So a country where everything is government run is 'free market'?
The Chinese government has an ideological fear of interfering with businesses as long as those businesses are just trying to make a profit. They're very hands-off economically these days.

-- Alex
 

Duskwaith

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Sep 20, 2008
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Is that the reason all the stuff is made over there? due to cheap labour and the government taking now part in the economy
 
May 15, 2008
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Kagrath post=18.73013.781635 said:
If I remember my economics correctly the more a government likes to fuck with the economy(like tariff, tax etc)the more dead space and lost efficiency there is. All the government should do is slap around the trusts and monopolies because free markets have to stay competitive.

Here is the way the world works, big business is the crap that holds the world together no matter how much it stinks. You are not special, you are not unique. Get over it. Just smile and act like the peasant you are and get your meager amounts of money to live off of. The top two percent that hold ninety percent of America's income is not going to share it.

Sorry how scattered that is, but I'm going to sleep now.
Yeah... that's about it. Planned economies don't work well economically, but free markets also have their downsides, (e.g. Monopolies, gaps between rich and poor.) The middle ground is the right place to be.
 

Anton P. Nym

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The problem isn't one of noble entrepeneurs/public-servants vs. vile bureaucrats/capitalists, it's one of big vs. little.

The more you concentrate power, the more prone that power is to abuse. You need to diffuse that power, balance it, so that you don't get a minority using its concentrated power to tyranise the majority. Whether it's government or corporate doesn't matter, it's the concentration of power that's the problem and why you need limits on both regulation and market-freedom.

Why do Randians feel that big corporations are any more trustworthy than big governments, and why do Marxists feel the reverse? Governments and corporations are both human institutions, prone to the same human foibles when confronted with ultimate power. A balance of powers keeps both useful while limiting their potential frightfulness.

-- Steve
 

Anton P. Nym

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Alex_P post=18.73013.781639 said:
sneakypenguin post=18.73013.781597 said:
So a country where everything is government run is 'free market'?
The Chinese government has an ideological fear of interfering with businesses as long as those businesses are just trying to make a profit. They're very hands-off economically these days.

-- Alex
I think they learned that with Mao's "Great Leap Forward" program in the '70s, the economic equivalent to the '60s "Cultural Revolution". It was a governmental attempt to decentralise industry along Marxist lines but at a low technological level... so you had small, cottage-industry metal foundries for instance. It was a disaster, arguably setting China back economically about twenty years because in order to meet the steel quota, for instance, these small foundries resorted to scrapping existing tools to melt down into (contaminated, because they were under "comply or die" time pressure) ingots.

Ever since the powers behind the "Great Leap Forward" died off, their Central Committee has been more favourable to "hands-off" economic management.

-- Steve
 

AntiAntagonist

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Apr 17, 2008
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Anton P. Nym post=18.73013.781775 said:
Ever since the powers behind the "Great Leap Forward" died off, their Central Committee has been more favourable to "hands-off" economic management.

-- Steve
A number of Taiwanese say that the mainlanders simply refer to it as "The Chinese Way" to sidestep ridding themselves of the populist slogans.

Corruption is rife within the gov't in Beijing meaning bribery of officials for business favors is common.
I wanna tear down those state housing apartments for this sky-rise
Sure if you hand me over an arm and a leg you can have all the space you need.
Those bribes can easily be recouped with these plans.
... Give me more since you're stupid enough to say that out loud.
 

Mathew952

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Feb 14, 2008
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sneakypenguin post=18.73013.781582 said:
the only regulation that is needed is anti monopoly/anti trust laws. Other than that the government should stay out.
Also what's wrong with the rich having power? If I work my butt off 60 hours a week to rise to the top shouldn't I have a bigger say(through influence) than John smith working at walmart as a stockboy?
Hard work doesn't gaurentee you will be rich though. look at paris hilton. she was born into money, and din't have to work for a dime of it.
 

BallPtPenTheif

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Booze Zombie post=18.73013.780917 said:
Why don't we just let capitalism crumble and try to make something new?
Because socialism and communism are not new and so far they have failed.