Possible white washing of Sphinx in upcoming Exodus movie

[Erttheking]

http://www.dailydot.com/entertainment/exodus-set-photo-european-sphinx/

This...this is just fucking stupid. I mean really? Can anyone tell how this could severe to benefit the movie in anyway? I've seen pictures of the Sphinx before. Surprisingly, I wasn't bothered by the way it was designed, race didn't even enter my mind. Really, who even thought this change was necessary? I mean just really...just make the statue the way that it actually is in real life. How hard is that? At the very least show some god damn respect to some of the oldest marvels that mankind was able to build.

 

[Queen Michael]

I don't know how to tell a "white" sphinx from a "black" one.

On a different note, the article makes it clear that it's not yet certain that the statue in question actually is the sphinx.

 

[Erttheking]

I don't know how to tell a "white" sphinx from a "black" one.

On a different note, the article makes it clear that it's not yet certain that the statue in question actually is the sphinx.

Neither can I. Which is why I'm so baffled that they decided to change it.

Also, very true. It's still rather white washing but I will change the title.

 

[Zhukov]

Exodus? That's this movie, right?

Heh. Clearly the Egyptian bigwigs don't catch anywhere near as much sun as their guards and servants.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Yeah...there was a bit about that in the article too.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtlMMVECAAArss1.jpg

Stay classy Hollywood...stay classy.

EDIT: I just noticed Aaron Paul is in this movie...oh come on man! You can do better!

 

[dumbseizure]

I thought, when I read the title, that they were making a sphinx more "white" somehow.

glad to see I did actually read that right, I was not disappointed.

OT: it is kind of bizarre, whether it is intentional or not I dunno, but I will say this (and maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong, I'm blanking at the moment on ancient history) wouldn't having a cast of middle eastern actors be more accurate? Because I seriously don't remember at this time whether African Americans were in Egypt at this time period, let alone Caucasians.

Seriously if someone could answer I would be grateful, cause I can't remember for the life of me.

 

[ExDeath730]

Just...One thing, i don't know why they're casting blacks for the guard roles. For the civilians? Fine, one or another Nubian or Saba'en would make sense. But the Palace Guard would probably be run by Egyptians, you know? Arabs, etc...? The egyptians were always kind of dicks in that respect, and the Mamluks, just got some degree of respect by the crusades time, for being damn good horsemen and leaders.

 

[Erttheking]

I thought, when I read the title, that they were making a sphinx more "white" somehow.

glad to see I did actually read that right, I was not disappointed.

OT: it is kind of bizarre, whether it is intentional or not I dunno, but I will say this (and maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong, I'm blanking at the moment on ancient history) wouldn't having a cast of middle eastern actors be more accurate? Because I seriously don't remember at this time whether African Americans were in Egypt at this time period, let alone Caucasians.

Seriously if someone could answer I would be grateful, cause I can't remember for the life of me.

If I had to take a mildly educated guess I'd have to say that sounds about right.

 

[Thaluikhain]

OT: it is kind of bizarre, whether it is intentional or not I dunno, but I will say this (and maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong, I'm blanking at the moment on ancient history) wouldn't having a cast of middle eastern actors be more accurate? Because I seriously don't remember at this time whether African Americans were in Egypt at this time period, let alone Caucasians.

Seriously if someone could answer I would be grateful, cause I can't remember for the life of me.

Americans? No.

However, Egypt was trading with people all over, tin from Britain was mixed with copper from Egypt to make bronze for many thousands of years for example, so there'd be the odd white person around.

You'd also get black people from further south, Egypt used to run Nubia. There's lots of debate over the ethnicity of various prominent Egyptians, but they definitely had lots of different ethnic groups. Having everyone be black would be a bit odd, but feasible.

 

[dumbseizure]

OT: it is kind of bizarre, whether it is intentional or not I dunno, but I will say this (and maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong, I'm blanking at the moment on ancient history) wouldn't having a cast of middle eastern actors be more accurate? Because I seriously don't remember at this time whether African Americans were in Egypt at this time period, let alone Caucasians.

Seriously if someone could answer I would be grateful, cause I can't remember for the life of me.

Americans? No.

However, Egypt was trading with people all over, tin from Britain was mixed with copper from Egypt to make bronze for many thousands of years for example, so there'd be the odd white person around.

You'd also get black people from further south, Egypt used to run Nubia. There's lots of debate over the ethnicity of various prominent Egyptians, but they definitely had lots of different ethnic groups. Having everyone be black would be a bit odd, but feasible.

Ah, thank you for that, it was actually bothering me whether I was completely blanking on ancient history and it turns out I was.

 

[Weaver]

Still looks made of limestone to me.

 

[JoJo]

To be fair to the movie-makers, while a cast of Middle-Easterners with the odd person of another race thrown in would probably be most accurate, there's a long history in movie-making of using your own nationality for Biblical settings rather than the authentic ethnicities. While it was going for a different tone, I'm pretty sure Carry on Cleo had a cast of exclusively British actors for example playing Romans and Egyptians etc. Ditto for many of your run-of-the-mill Bible movies. The statue just looks weird though, maybe a little too accurate, it doesn't really look Egyptian style.

 

[Nickolai77]

I don't know how to tell a "white" sphinx from a "black" one.

On a different note, the article makes it clear that it's not yet certain that the statue in question actually is the sphinx.

Neither can I. Which is why I'm so baffled that they decided to change it.

Also, very true. It's still rather white washing but I will change the title.

Bear in mind though that what the actual, original face of the sphinx looked like is largely unknown. It could have had white or black features, or maybe bits both, we simply have no idea after centuries and centuries of erosion. It could be reasonably presumed that the actual sphinx has the morphological facial features of the Ancient Egyptians at the time- but again how we could classify the "race" of Ancient Egyptians is as unknown as what the Sphinx's original face looked like.

If it is the sphinx in question here, I suspect the person who designed it simply mirrored the facial features they were familiar with- and, as the designer was most likely white working in an environment predominately populated by white people, it is no surprise that the Sphinx has come out with white facial features. This isn't a case of intentional racism, but perhaps another little reminder of the dominant roles that white people play in American and Western society.

 

[Thaluikhain]

A while back the forum was up in arms over an article about racists throwing a hissy fit over making a Norse God described by the racists as a "White Man's God" black. They said that the racists shouldn't give a damn about what a fictional God who could technically look like anything (given their, y'know, a God) has as their race.

Yet when it is a white sphinx that's racist? So... it's okay to, essentially, "blackwash" a "White God" yet when it comes to whitewashing a "black one" that's worse?

I'm all for tolerance, but this is downright hypocritical.

Not a Norse God. A fictional alien. The characters in this film are from mythology based on real history.

Secondly, you will have noticed that there are a lot more high profile roles for white people than for people who aren't white as it is.

 

[Thaluikhain]

might well be some truth in that as i dont think they really went in for windows..

Then they'd not have much in the way of light.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Looks pretty sphynxy to me.

 

[Albino Boo]

Not a Norse God. A fictional alien. The characters in this film are from mythology based on real history.

Secondly, you will have noticed that there are a lot more high profile roles for white people than for people who aren't white as it is.

Fictional aliens almost entirely based off of the Norse Gods, completely taking over virtually all the themes of Norse Mythology, and with the heavy implication that these god-like Aliens are pretty much the exact same beings that the Vikings worshipped. And Heimdallr in Norse Mythology looked like this.

Spoiler

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/NKS_1867_4to,_97r,_Heimdallr.jpg[img][/spoiler]

You can't pull the "they're aliens" card when they're literally supposed to be the [i]same beings[/i] from Norse mythos with the "they were really aliens" excuse basically their to not offend the monotheists who got up in arms about freaking [i]Harry Potter[/i].

And I'll totally agree that african americans in cinema are given the short end of the stick. Hell, we [i]still[/i] can't have a black and white couple in a movie without the entire movie being about the fact they're a mixed race couple. Yet complaining about the freaking [i]sphinx[/i] after a "white culture" had one of its' gods basically "blackwashed" is downright hypocritical.

You upset about none of the egyptian characters being actually egyptian or looking egyptian? That's a decent thing to argue over, but people [i]cannot[/i] simultaneously say it's okay to change the races of "white gods" while "african Gods" (though the egyptians I've met sort of describe themselves as more their own separate identity distinct from Africans) are outright untouchable.[/quote]

[QUOTE=erttheking]http://www.dailydot.com/entertainment/exodus-set-photo-european-sphinx/

This...this is just fucking stupid. I mean really? Can anyone tell how this could severe to benefit the movie in anyway? I've seen pictures of the Sphinx before. Surprisingly, I wasn't bothered by the way it was designed, race didn't even enter my mind. Really, who even thought this change was necessary? I mean just really...just make the statue the way that it actually is in real life. How hard is that? At the very least show some god damn respect to some of the oldest marvels that mankind was able to build.[/QUOTE]


The Egyptians were not black. The language they spoke was semitic language, meaning that their origins are the same as today's Jews and Arabs. The entire North African littoral has been inhabited by non black people since the stone age. The present day berbers have been recorded living in the same area since at least 750 BC. The ancient Egyptian description of the Libyans was that they were blonde. Ramses the Great had red hair
[img]http://photos.travellerspoint.com/227302/large_Ramses_II_Mummy.jpg

Egypt was monocultural but multiracial society that did not define itself by race. The definition of someone who was Egyptian was a cultural one, in this case it was if lived by the rules of Ma'at and took an Egyptian name then you were an Egyptian. The culture that formed Egyptian society can be traced back to around 6000 BC, so we are talking about an indigenous semitic population in north Africa in the late stone age. However the events on the Exodus take place in new kingdom Egypt 1000 years after the pyramids were first built. In those 1000 years Egyptian power had waxed and waned bringing in a wide variety conquers, slaves and migrations. This meant by New Kingdom Egypt the country had become multiracial. Moses's name itself is in fact Egyptian and not Hebrew, it means beloved of. To put this into context an alternative spelling of Ramses is Ramoses meaning beloved of Ra.


Fundamental point North africa does not equal balck and never has done.