"Realistic" Shooters - Bullshit

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Baron_BJ

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Nov 13, 2009
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*TLDR Version at bottom*

This has been on my mind for months and months, but I finally broke down like the little ***** that I am and decided to post about it; people are constantly referring to the shooters that are on the market now and people/press are calling them "realistic" and I am just sick of that when of course the fucking things are far from it.

Lets make a list of some of the loads of crap that crammed into these things:

Every enemy having a seemingly endless supply of grenades which they will throw at you constantly, forcing you to charge through harms way without rest or a reasonable chance to fire back (through enemies that shoot at you and only you, but we'll get to that soon), even in games set back in the early wars when (this still applies now, but not nearly as heavily) not only would a person be limited to one or two grenades, but that person would often need to prove that they would be adept at using them and atop that they may also have needed to have been a certain rank depending on shortages, because quite frankly private; you aren't worth the trouble.

AI Allies being useless; this load of bullshit is as old as the gaming industry itself (and it does apply to other genres as well of course, but it is quite prevelent here), however it's not because of technological limitations anymore that we're getting moronic AI but because of a few factors; One being poor/lazy programmers (looking at Capcom here, it's not a shooter but DR1 is a prime example), budget, but a good team can often pull something tolerable out of this and lastly, but most importantly, is a team not knowing how to realistically draw the line between a domineering AI which blows the shit out of your enemy, thereby making the players useless and a useless asscricket who is there to make it appear as though you aren't actually 100% alone against 15 enemy soldiers. A difficult line to draw, so often teams will choose the latter and make them immune to damage so that the sheer idiocy that you're fighting alongside doesn't cause you to lose the game. This could be worked out by closely working with the testing team, but that would take far too much time and effort wouldn't it?

Shotguns: This has to be one of the biggest gripes of all for me. I'm a gun owner and I happen to own a shotgun which I use for target practise quite a lot (not live of course) and they're a lot more accurate than they're always portrayed, sure they're nowhere near as accurate as a rifle, but they're a medium range weapon and you can easily nail a target from some distance away with one (For an actual damaging shot I mean, I don't refer to a lone, stray pellet striking the target, I'd say it could reach 60 meters easily, but I wouldn't quote me on that, merely an estimate off the top of my head) The spread may be wild, however it's not actually very wide, so the buck may all fly off toward the left, however it's still very much on target. Also a shotgun doesn't lose nearly that much power over such a short distance, yes it does indeed lose power much quicker than your standard gun, but it will still clear the distance of your standard sized western (by which I mean western cultured as in Australia, America, Canada etc) house and have more than enough power to knock a man onto their ass. There's a simple reason for this change actually: Game balance, but that's the problem, we're being promised realism and quite frankly reality is far from balanced, and neither is the rest of the gameplay involved in these messes.

Oldest complaint in the book here: Enemies aim for you and only you, without going into too much detail here like I have with every other complaint, the enemy isn't going to single out a sole, nameless private for shits and giggles and coordinate around blowing their fucking brains out.

Regenerating health is actually something I like, but it doesn't match the genre, neither does healing of any sort (well, in the near future that sort of front line tech will be available, for a simplified example of this sort of tech you can search the escapist for a news article of a healing gun that has a special medical gel for use onlifethreatening wounds, there are many others out there, but that's just an easily found example), but you're trying to feed me this bullshit about being realistic when you clearly are anything but. This of course comes back to game balance, how else are you going to get back on your feet when every enemy is bumrushing you?

Guns not having weight behind them, meaning players can get a spot-on aim the second they see something twitch, this is admittedly not the fault of programmers, but the fault of the PC (consoles are able to work around this, but allow me to explain). The mouse isn't something that would allow for the veeeery slow amd realistic movement of certain guns and weaponry (an example of this would be the cannon at the very begginning of Call of Juarez (spelling?): Bound in Blood), whereas consoles allow for this slow movement because of how players must aim with the analog sticks. Not something that can be easily dealt with.

Instant enemy aiming; yeah, that fucking NPC sniper (hell sometimes it's just some ***** who is somehow really good with a pistol, so good he'll make you his ***** from 7 miles away) knowing exactly where and when you will come out and will shoot you square between the eyes the split second you poke your head out there. It's a poor attempt at balancing out the issue caused by players being able to aim so fast that only ends with players being pissed off.

Why must I be the one to push forward? Why do the enemies spawn endlessly until I charge 20 metres or so forward in completely open terrain where I will undoubtably get my shit wrecked a thousand times over. Normally people don't follow that one private in the field who's name no one remembers, it's normally behind a sergeant or because there's an order that's been given, and if such risky orders are constantly given to the same man/men then investigations can and will happen (in some much earlier wars that America was involved with some less than scrupulous officers would force people of color (not sure if this is the best way of saying it, I'm not american and it applies to more than just african-americans) up front, meaning they'd either die, be discharged much sooner or be wounded and sent home early, meaning that they would now be in command of a company of their choosing). "No Major, you cannot force Billy to charge up front in such missions endlessly because he fucked your wife".

Destructible cover, it's a fantastic idea, however in this day and age it will NEVER look right, at least not without spending an ungodly amount, an example of this would be Battlefield: Bad Company (I don't like the game personally, but that's not the point), being able to level a building with a tank is a good idea, but the problem is the physics and damage done to ALL structures are bad enough to make a 5 year old giggle until they piss themselves, To go into detail would take a very long time, however I'm sure you understand what I mean. A bullet doesn't have that kind of affect against a concrete wall, not even an armor piercing one. A knife will not make a door shatter like glass with a single stab to it's center. Maybe one day this sort of thing will be financially viable and won't look hilariously bad, but that's not today (It WORKS fine, I won't deny that, but it looks hilariously awful).

What's your opinion on the matter?

EDIT: People seem to be getting the idea I'm after a realistic game, I don't, my problem is that they're constantly marketing the games as "realistic", but it seems more or less like the development team got to pick and choose which parts were realistic and which parts got to enjoy a big, delicious, chunky spoonful of crap.

EDIT2: People seem to be getting the idea that I'm not enjoying the current games, I'm having a ton of fun but my bitchfit has nothing to do with that.

TLDR: They aren't realistic and I've just stated some of the more obvious complains, state your opinion and other problems with the games that stop them from being anywhere near realistic.
 

KEM10

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Oct 22, 2008
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And what is up with continues and saved games? In real life if you die, you don't go back to your last checkpoint for a chance to get it right (unless you're Bill Murry and this is Groundhog Day).

Honestly, the most "realistic" FPS I have seen was Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas 1&2. It only takes about two or three good shots to kill you and the shotguns are effective as mid to close range weapons. And unless you have a tight choke on your gun, I doubt the kill potential of your shotgun at 60m. The targets at most ranges are between 15 and 30 for a reason.
 

ReservoirAngel

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Nov 6, 2010
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I think you should expand the sniper one to all enemy AI having insane eyesight and unnatural accuracy. Example on The Saboteur. I got the alarm sounded, and was immedaitely lacerated by about 50 bullets from riflemen positioned on towers so far away I could barely see the Nazi on top even with the ironsight aim on my rifle.

I know The Saboteur isn't entirely realistic, that was just the first example to come to mind.

Nobody is ever that accurate, and it is just really annoying in games. Snipers are somewhat understandable, but a normal footsoldier shooting you perfectly in the chest from a massive distance away with a bog-standard machine gun is just not cool, not realistic and is frankly very fucking annoying.
 

Frotality

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Oct 25, 2010
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aiming for realism is a problem to begin with; its obvious they fail at it, and thats good. ill say it again; if reality were so damn interesting i wouldnt be playing video games. games sell on the promise of being more 'realistic' (which shouldnt be a selling point beyond what new technology can emulate to start with), when all they do is make all the interesting environments and weapons from good FPSs into grayish-brown rubble and boring old real weapons. CoD is using the same philosophy towards realism as everyone else, but needlessly trying to hide it; realism need only go as far as needed to contribute to immersion, not kill the fun; sim games are a niche market, and its quite obvious CoD is not made for a niche market.

but for some reason people like to think its closer to reality than any other game and like to pretend they enjoy that aspect instead of just drop-shotting 8-yr olds online, so CoD probably understands it demographic alot better than i do, because that really doesnt make sense to me.
 

JourneyThroughHell

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Sep 21, 2009
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KEM10 said:
Honestly, the most "realistic" FPS I have seen was Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas 1&2. It only takes about two or three good shots to kill you and the shotguns are effective as mid to close range weapons. And unless you have a tight choke on your gun, I doubt the kill potential of your shotgun at 60m. The targets at most ranges are between 15 and 30 for a reason.
And also the guy who you control is psychic because he can see himself in third person and watch the enemies ahead when hugging walls, and, therefore, precisely blindfire.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

OT: When anyone tries to imply that BC2 or MW2 are bad games because they're trying to be "realistic" and are not, I rage. And I have all the rights to.

You want a "realistic" shooter? There is Arma, Rainbow Six, Swat, Operation Flashpoint.

Naturally, most FPSs are not "realistic". In real life, one bullet to the head means you're dead. In real life, your friends are not invincible. In real life, one bullet takes you out of action, permanently.

None of them set out to be, and if they do, it's stupid.
 

Oneirius

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Apr 21, 2009
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Have a realistic shooter.
http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index.php?showtopic=375097
Tell us about your experiences with it.
 

GRoXERs

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Feb 4, 2009
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I say to you what I said to my roommate last night when he was whining about this: You don't really want to play a realistic FPS. [http://www.theonion.com/video/ultrarealistic-modern-warfare-game-features-awaiti,14382/]
In real life, you spend hours in crushing boredom, then you suddenly die and chances are you'll never see the guy who got you. It's kinda like Halo 2 on Legendary, only every enemy is a jackal sniper and you can't move that fast, jump that high, or fire your gun without orders. Also, teamkilling is... shall we say... much more frowned upon.
 

hyperhammy

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Jan 4, 2010
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I FUCKING hate realism in games...
Seriously, STOP! Next thing you know they are going to make the "That akward time you asked out a girl and she laughed at your lame ass and for the rest of the week all her friends make fun of you" game.
 

DannibalG36

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Mar 29, 2010
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ArmA 2 with ACE mod - the most realistic FPS experience on any console available to the public. It has no equal. I'm sorry.
 

FrossetMareritt

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Sep 10, 2008
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Baron_BJ said:
Oldest complaint in the book here: Enemies aim for you and only you, without going into too much detail here like I have with every other complaint, the enemy isn't going to single out a sole, nameless private for shits and giggles and coordinate around blowing their fucking brains out.
I hate this more than anything. It's like I must have a huge "shot this guy" over my head and all the enemies think that my weapon is given to me by Odin himself. While everyone else who wields the exact same weapon get's overlooked... even if they haven't ducked behind cover the entire firefight. Couple that with every enemy being able to pick out and hit an off-white dove out of a sea of pure white ones, and can easily do it from the Moon no less. Yeah, that makes for nice mouse throwing, controller snapping experience.
 

Iron Mal

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Jun 4, 2008
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The problem with aiming for 'realism' is that reality isn't fun (otherwise we'd all now be marching off to join the army, shoot some foreigners and have a gay ol' time doing it).

The problem with making realism in games is that you have to omit or change some things in order for the game to be even remotely playable.

Imagine if every time you spawned in a match you got killed by a crew served weapon platform that's miles away, or if you died then that's it, all your gear and unlocks reset (the guy you were just playing as is dead, his experiences and badge aren't going to be passed onto someone else, Lt. Iron Mal is now the subject of a very sad letter to his spouse).

In my opinion, 'true realism' would just result in frustratingly annoying (and ultimately unplayable) games.
 

SinisterGehe

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May 19, 2009
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Will you finance a game that would will be able to achieve all this.

Also Multi-player with those rules. "I just took whole team of 32 players out with single mortal shot" Game lasts total of whopping minute...

DUDE IT IS A GAME, Ok title could be changed to realisticish shooter.

Back to my point. Start a game company and try achieving that. Ok?
 

Twad

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Nov 19, 2009
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YOu want (kinda) realistic shooters? Try Operation Flashpoint and/or ARMA. They are more simulations than games imho... You die real easy when you are on foot.
 

kokirisoldier

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Apr 15, 2008
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My biggest pet peeve is when people mistake "realism" for "really REALLY HARD" those two are different. I agree with the hit box Idea from SWAT 4, and I agree with the 1-3 shot rule too. BUT that does not mean that the enemy aims better or has "magical" bullets that do more damage on level 9 as opposed to level 1. I played Arma2 and was pissed at how retarded my AI team mates were. Quick back story, I'm in the U.S Army and got back from Afghanistan just half a year ago...NO one is accurate. Shoot 40 out of 40 at the M4 range...yet when you are taking cover behind a crappy mud-brick wall while it pretty much turns back to dirt neither you or Muhammad are shooting 40 out of 40, and most of the time you just call for mortars or CAS.

EDIT* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDYjNao0YTw

Its gonna be a long time till FPS's get realism right.
 

Nutcase

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Dec 3, 2008
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Baron_BJ said:
Guns not having weight behind them, meaning players can get a spot-on aim the second they see something twitch, this is admittedly not the fault of programmers, but the fault of the PC (consoles are able to work around this, but allow me to explain). The mouse isn't something that would allow for the veeeery slow amd realistic movement of certain guns and weaponry (an example of this would be the cannon at the very begginning of Call of Juarez (spelling?): Bound in Blood), whereas consoles allow for this slow movement because of how players must aim with the analog sticks. Not something that can be easily dealt with.
Yes, console controller would deal better with a heavy mounted and/or crewed weapon. At the same time mouse, while not perfect, deals better with light weapons such as pistols and rifles because a good shooter does think in terms of "pointing" to the target.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eksnQKwHPTU

The optimal choice also depends on the game's intentions and the player character. It makes no sense to have a player character who is supposed to be a weapons expert who slowly turns his weapon towards the next target. There's nothing more irritating than elements which hinder the player's actions supposedly for the sake of realism, while actually reducing realism. Crysis is guilty of this on several counts. For instance, the super-soldier player character cannot locate their selector switch in less than two seconds' time. Stuff like that is instinctive in reality. Since the player already had to press a button on the keyboard, the in-game result should be instantaneous.
 

latenightapplepie

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Nov 9, 2008
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If I ever refer to a game as "realistic" I will always include the quotation marks to indicate that I think that the game is trying to appear and/or market itself as such, even though I'm aware it's not true realism.

Compare Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 with Halo: Reach. Neither is at all realistic. But one of them is clearly "realistic".

Am I making any sense?