Rogue One Discussion (POTENTIAL SPOILERS WITHIN)

[Paragon Fury]

I'm making this thread for discussion about Rogue One, as the other is mainly about its' reviews and not marked as being a spoiler thread, which this very likely will be.

So I went and saw Rogue One tonight and I have to say - its' definitely not the WORST Star Wars movies, but its definitely one of the weaker ones.

Spoiler

It tells and interesting story and has some interesting parts, but its very poorly focused, cuts too much and never really digs into anything enough to have impact. The scene with Darth Vader and the Designer is kind of pointless, and the battle scene on Scarif was cool but honestly could've been a bit more epic if the Rebel Fleet didn't seem intent on getting its' ass kicked.

Jihn really overreacted too, because yes while the Rebels did kill her father and the Captain's response is completely valid, she doesn't bother to consider that to the Rebels her Father is a valid military target.

Also, they totally wasted the opportunity for a badass by killing Sol like that.

 

[KissingSunlight]

As one of the few people who liked Rogue One, I had no problems with the movie. Then again, I am not expecting a masterpiece with any of the new releases. One thing I realized when I rewatched all the Star Wars movies before seeing The Force Awakens. All the movies were flawed. You can nitpick all of them with ruthless efficiency. So, it's all a matter of how glaring the flaws are with you. So far, the only movie in the series that I can't get pass the flaws is The Force Awakens.

 

[Saelune]

Rogue One is the quality I was expecting from The Force Awakens. That is to say, overall fine, but with a bit too much reverence for certain things. Not to say I thought it was perfect, but ya know, it wasnt just a remake of A New Hope.

Part of the problems for the movie is because its one movie, so it did not have the luxury of 3 films to expand on characters. Someone had said the main girl did very little, and perhaps the film should have been painted as the group being the main characters, not just her and the guy. (I dont remember any names, but that I blame on fantasy setting names mostly)

I have little really to complain, or really praise the movie's plot for. The biggest positive is probably just the retconning of Star War's biggest plot...hole, and felt a decent enough explanation to me compared to anything it could have been.

Also...we revere Darth Vader too much. He literally comes down from a bath of white light (and his costume was off). His final scene also while I get was to remind you he is -supposed- to be badass, it kind of makes his opening scene in A New Hope seem like a big fail on his part, considering its like, 20 minutes after the end of the film. And that "dont choke on it" line...whoever wrote that needs to be Force Choked.

My final real complaint is one of movies in general, rather our modern movie sensibilities. I get this was supposed to be a war movie, so I am not harping on the action-oriented aspect really, but this was definatly a "modern movie", and modern movies have no patience anymore. And can we stop treating us like idiots? Dont just placard the planet names.

Last irrelevant gripe: The cameo of the Cantina duo...why was the walrus guy's head like, comically large?

 

[Fox12]

As one of the few people who liked Rogue One, I had no problems with the movie. Then again, I am not expecting a masterpiece with any of the new releases. One thing I realized when I rewatched all the Star Wars movies before seeing The Force Awakens. All the movies were flawed. You can nitpick all of them with ruthless efficiency. So, it's all a matter of how glaring the flaws are with you. So far, the only movie in the series that I can't get pass the flaws is The Force Awakens.

There's plenty to nit pick in the original films. Why the heck is there a monster living in a trash compactor on a space station in A New Hope? Why is it not already crushed, and how in earth did it get there? Why didn't Luke die after jumping off a balcony in Empire? He just randomly starts flying sideways, and slows down. gravity does not work that way. It's one of the worst Deus ex Machinas out there. This is probably why the films were criticized a lot in their time.

And yeah, it's kind of a problem. But the thing is, the films did enough things well, and enough things really well, that the good heavily outweighed the bad. I can forgive a few minor eye roll moments. Rewatching the original films recently, I realized something. Star Wars really is an adventure serial. It's corny as all hell, but it's fun. It was never supposed to be James Joyce.

I'm a little more open minded now. I'm not really interested in seeing more movies about the old heroes. I don't care for prequel films about Han or Yoda, and I'm not crazy about seeing the original cast dragged through two more trilogies. But I am interested in seeing more films like Rogue One. I am interested in seeing something like Knights of the Old Republic. In that way, maybe the best Star Wars material will exist outside of the films. Rogue One would have made an incredible television series. I want to see the series grow, and develop, and flourish. Hopefully we'll see that.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

As one of the few people who liked Rogue One, I had no problems with the movie.

Don't let the Escapist fool you, I'm fairly certain we can say that this movie was well received by critics and fans alike.

Also...we revere Darth Vader too much. He literally comes down from a bath of white light (and his costume was off). His final scene also while I get was to remind you he is -supposed- to be badass, it kind of makes his opening scene in A New Hope seem like a big fail on his part, considering its like, 20 minutes after the end of the film. And that "dont choke on it" line...whoever wrote that needs to be Force Choked.

I thought his costume was off too, but it is exactly the same as it was in A New Hope. In the following the movies, they greatly improved his suit. And I'm not exactly sure how his major scene makes his opening scene in A New Hope a "fail". If anything, it makes his fight with Obi-wan even more ridiculous.

OT: I loved the movie, even though it's flaws are obvious. I was getting a bit depressed by the start, because that shit was just a hot mess, but the payoff was worth it. The best space battles, shootouts, and lightsaber action we have seen in Star Wars so far.

My major flaw with the movie of course would be the characters (why even comment on the plot, only a child or someone who hasn't seen A New Hope wouldn't predict the entire plot by the 30th minute mark). They all essentially have no arcs, just... lines. Jyn is this one minute, something else the other. You could totally see where they were going with the characters. Jyn starts caring again, Cassian is tired of crossing lines for the Rebellion, K2 only cares about Cassian. But the way they were handled... not good at all. Donnie Yen and his buddy were cool, but I think they were fucked over by reshoots because I can't seem to recall anything in the movie that explained why they were tagging along. I mean, you can assume its revenge, like everyone else in the movie. Jyn wants revenge for his father, Cassian for his family, and the two I guess are angry about Jedha getting blown to bits.

Also, the CGI. We all know what I'm talking about.

Spoiler

The CGI characters. They were of course horrible, but at the same time it was kind of impressive. Tarkin looked like a character from the BFG movie, and Leia looked like a Hot Toys action figure, but if you squinted, it would be totally believable. It makes you wonder, will we soon see movies doing this more and more?

In the end, could have been better, but to me, good enough.

EDIT: And on the topic of future Anthology films, fuck the Han Solo movie. Seriously. The man just died, at least let his corpse rot first! An Obi-wan movie? Honestly, why not. You still have Ewan McGregor, and I thought he was the sole bit of good acting in the prequels, so go ahead. Lastly, the kid in me still wants a Boba Fett film, which apparently was already in the works before Josh Trank torpedoed his career.

 

[Neverhoodian]

I'm just going to copy-paste what I wrote in the "lel teh movie must suck because of a few mixed reviews" thread with spoiler tags removed and one or two extra observations.

TL;DR version: Rogue One is the best thing to happen to Star Wars in years, if not decades. Not only do I enjoy it considerably more than TFA, but it even ranks up there with the hallowed Original Trilogy for me (that's right, I went there). That said, it's not perfect (but then, what movie is?) and YMMV if you're not a big Star Wars fan like myself.

Right, I finally got around to seeing it, and-

Seriously though, this is the kind of Star Wars movie I've been wanting for years now. Finally, a Star Wars film that isn't afraid to mix things up and deviate from the formula.

What I loved:

-SPACE BATTLES! HONEST-TO-GOD SPACE BATTLES!

-Ordinary people being the heroes for once instead of Jedi.

-K-2SO was definitely a show stealer with his hilarious, brutally honest observations. Chirrut Imwe also had some great moments ("You're kidding, right? I'm blind!"). Consequently, I had the most feels for their respective death scenes. Speaking of Chirrut, it was great to see another Force-sensitive that isn't a Jedi or Sith. Also, "Keeper of the Whills..." I see what you did there...

-All the call-outs to the Expanded Universe, both old and new; I practically squee'd when the OG Juggernaut came roaring over the ridge, and the Hammerhead corvette scene is probably the closest we'll ever get to seeing KOTOR on the silver screen. It was cool seeing Saw Guerrera again after Clone Wars, and there were several references to Rebels, from subtle name-dropping via Yavin IV's PA system to the Ghost participating in the space battle.

-Gray areas in a setting known for its black-and-white morality. The Rebels aren't all squeaky clean goody-two-shoes and the Empire aren't comprised entirely of psychopaths...at least, not when it comes to the rank and file. I felt genuinely bad for the deaths of some Stormtroopers. Take the one with the scuffed-up armor on the Juggernaut, for instance. The poor blighter looked like he was sick of his job and just wanted to go home.

-CGI Tarkin was nothing short of jaw-dropping. If it wasn't for subtle giveaways in the animation and the slightly-off voice actor (they should have gone with the one from Rebels, he sounded like the real deal) I would have sworn it was a clone of Mr. Cushing himself circa '77. Red and Gold leaders were also quite impressive (also, RIP original Red 5. Why are the chubby pilots always the first to go?).

-The Empire having an effective military? Surely you jest! Seriously though, Rebel ships and soldiers were dropping like flies.

-Goddamn, that scene with Vader at the end was terrifying. It touched off long-forgotten memories of the first time I saw him as a young, easily frightened child. It was visceral, brutal and blatant fan-service...and I loved every second of it.

Stuff I didn't care for:

-The movie is all over the place at first...literally. I liked seeing different locales and all, but the degree of planet-hopping was overkill.

-The whole mind-reading tentacle monster scene stuck out like a sore thumb and contributed nothing to the movie. It would have been more effective if Saw or one of his lackeys interrogated Bohdi Rook or simply threw him in a cell to rot.

-"Be careful not to CHOKE on your ambitions, Krennic."

-The Rebel council scene with the "we'd better surrender now!" bit. It ultimately served no purpose other than for Jyn to give a generic "we just have to BELIEEEEEEVE in ourselves!" speech. It also made it seem like the Rebel Alliance wasn't all that committed to its cause if it was willing to roll over and die that quickly. Besides, it's not like anybody believed they were going to go through with it; we've all seen A New Hope, for crying out loud!

-Certain plot points were not only predictable, but telegraphed too far away. This robbed some of the more dramatic scenes of their intended emotional weight.

-While the model for CGI Leia was impressive, the animation plunged it straight into the Uncanny Valley. Shame that's what the movie ends on.

What I'm torn on:
-The exhaust port retcon. While I can appreciate the attempt to plug what many saw as a huge plot hole in A New Hope, another part of me feels like it undermines the symbolism behind the Death Star. Prior to Rogue One, everything you needed to know about the Empire was summed up nicely by the immense battle station. Its size and destructive capability demonstrated the Empire's limitless resources and utter ruthlessness, but its Achilles' Heel also illustrated its boundless hubris ("your overconfidence is your weakness") and over-reliance on technology, faults that came back to haunt them time and again throughout the Original Trilogy.

By making the exhaust port weakness an act of sabotage it succeeds in making the Empire threatening again (something it needed after being defeated by Ewoks in RotJ), but it also detracts from the theme of its arrogance being its downfall. It also makes the Death Star's ultimate destruction more of a shared accomplishment between Luke, Jyn and Galen. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for average Joes and Janes getting the spotlight; it's one of the many reasons why I like Rogue One so much. It's just that it has the unfortunate side effect in of further diminishing the importance of a protagonist that has been gradually overshadowed by Anakin (aka "Space Jesus") from the prequels and Rey from TFA. After all, what good would that Force-guided "one in a million" shot have been if Galen hadn't been on the Death Star project?

 

[Kyrian007]

Rogue One is the quality I was expecting from The Force Awakens. That is to say, overall fine, but with a bit too much reverence for certain things. Not to say I thought it was perfect, but ya know, it wasnt just a remake of A New Hope.

Part of the problems for the movie is because its one movie, so it did not have the luxury of 3 films to expand on characters. Someone had said the main girl did very little, and perhaps the film should have been painted as the group being the main characters, not just her and the guy. (I dont remember any names, but that I blame on fantasy setting names mostly)

I have little really to complain, or really praise the movie's plot for. The biggest positive is probably just the retconning of Star War's biggest plot...hole, and felt a decent enough explanation to me compared to anything it could have been.

Also...we revere Darth Vader too much. He literally comes down from a bath of white light (and his costume was off). His final scene also while I get was to remind you he is -supposed- to be badass, it kind of makes his opening scene in A New Hope seem like a big fail on his part, considering its like, 20 minutes after the end of the film. And that "dont choke on it" line...whoever wrote that needs to be Force Choked.

My final real complaint is one of movies in general, rather our modern movie sensibilities. I get this was supposed to be a war movie, so I am not harping on the action-oriented aspect really, but this was definatly a "modern movie", and modern movies have no patience anymore. And can we stop treating us like idiots? Dont just placard the planet names.

Last irrelevant gripe: The cameo of the Cantina duo...why was the walrus guy's head like, comically large?

I actually thought all of the CGI zombies had comically large heads. Tarkin actually looked like someone turned on a "big heads" cheat. Ditto with young Leia at the end. And the worst part of that... none of them were necessary. Red Leader it was ok with, with the helmet and being in an xwing cockpit... the CGI blended ok. But every Tarkin scene could have been either replaced with other character development scenes for Krennic or done with Tarkin in the crappy blue hologram. And young Leia at the end... it was unnecessary for her to turn around. She has an iconic look, she could have just kept staring out the observation window.

And just like in every movie these days it seems like there's no getting away from a director who just loves shaky-cam. Rouge One limits it to fast pans and action sequences... but there's no getting around how awful it looks and how little anything it actually provides. Does it really make a scene look "more real." A movie set in a universe with space wizards... needs stupid camera gimmicks... to look "real." Sure, that makes sense.

And as long as we're on little gripes... does one little murder make us really believe that Cassian is the "tortured, do the worst to get the job done" gritty anti-hero. Well, it really should, but I wanted to see him do more "evil" things on behalf of the rebellion. For 2 reasons; one, to make it more of a contrast when he "just can't" pull the trigger on Galen. And two, there needed to be that moment when someone drew and/or crossed the line between terrorist cell and freedom fighter. It was there, but it was too subtle and you had to read a lot into it to get that out of what was on film.

But as I've stated before, I liked it. Its "a Star Wars Story" not "Star Wars." And that's what it provided. A little snack to tide us over for Episode VIII. And it switched subgenres on us to see if they could get away with it in Star Wars. And they can. We saw a space war movie... I'm eagerly awaiting space noir. And space buddy cop. And space caper movie (like "The Italian Job," but with the Kessel Run or something.)

 

[Saelune]

EDIT: And on the topic of future Anthology films, fuck the Han Solo movie. Seriously. The man just died, at least let his corpse rot first! An Obi-wan movie? Honestly, why not. You still have Ewan McGregor, and I thought he was the sole bit of good acting in the prequels, so go ahead. Lastly, the kid in me still wants a Boba Fett film, which apparently was already in the works before Josh Trank torpedoed his career.

What? Ford is still alive, and Solo is a fictional character...

We have an Obi-Wan movie, 2 in-fact. Obi-Wan is easily the protagonist of much of the Prequels and the Clone-Wars EU stuff.

Rogue One is the quality I was expecting from The Force Awakens. That is to say, overall fine, but with a bit too much reverence for certain things. Not to say I thought it was perfect, but ya know, it wasnt just a remake of A New Hope.

Part of the problems for the movie is because its one movie, so it did not have the luxury of 3 films to expand on characters. Someone had said the main girl did very little, and perhaps the film should have been painted as the group being the main characters, not just her and the guy. (I dont remember any names, but that I blame on fantasy setting names mostly)

I have little really to complain, or really praise the movie's plot for. The biggest positive is probably just the retconning of Star War's biggest plot...hole, and felt a decent enough explanation to me compared to anything it could have been.

Also...we revere Darth Vader too much. He literally comes down from a bath of white light (and his costume was off). His final scene also while I get was to remind you he is -supposed- to be badass, it kind of makes his opening scene in A New Hope seem like a big fail on his part, considering its like, 20 minutes after the end of the film. And that "dont choke on it" line...whoever wrote that needs to be Force Choked.

My final real complaint is one of movies in general, rather our modern movie sensibilities. I get this was supposed to be a war movie, so I am not harping on the action-oriented aspect really, but this was definatly a "modern movie", and modern movies have no patience anymore. And can we stop treating us like idiots? Dont just placard the planet names.

Last irrelevant gripe: The cameo of the Cantina duo...why was the walrus guy's head like, comically large?

I actually thought all of the CGI zombies had comically large heads. Tarkin actually looked like someone turned on a "big heads" cheat. Ditto with young Leia at the end. And the worst part of that... none of them were necessary. Red Leader it was ok with, with the helmet and being in an xwing cockpit... the CGI blended ok. But every Tarkin scene could have been either replaced with other character development scenes for Krennic or done with Tarkin in the crappy blue hologram. And young Leia at the end... it was unnecessary for her to turn around. She has an iconic look, she could have just kept staring out the observation window.

And just like in every movie these days it seems like there's no getting away from a director who just loves shaky-cam. Rouge One limits it to fast pans and action sequences... but there's no getting around how awful it looks and how little anything it actually provides. Does it really make a scene look "more real." A movie set in a universe with space wizards... needs stupid camera gimmicks... to look "real." Sure, that makes sense.

But as I've stated before, I liked it. Its "a Star Wars Story" not "Star Wars." And that's what it provided. A little snack to tide us over for Episode VIII. And it switched subgenres on us to see if they could get away with it in Star Wars. And they can. We saw a space war movie... I'm eagerly awaiting space noir. And space buddy cop. And space caper movie (like "The Italian Job," but with the Kessel Run or something.)

Oh Tarkin was a cartoon character straight up. I wonder what people will say in 30 years. Will they think we thought that was realistic? Do we think people 30 years ago thought something was realistic that they never actually fell for? I dunno.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

What? Ford is still alive, and Solo is a fictional character...

Ford's been pretty insistent that he never do Han Solo again; the guy's just getting too old and battered for it. He broke a toe or something filming TFA. That was a big factor in the decision to kill the character off, I believe.

I don't understand the reasoning behind a Solo movie. The guy has such a clear character arc over the three films - or the first two, at least - that a prequel feels...well, where's it gonna end up? He'll just start the film as a snarky mercenary and end it as a snarky mercenary. There's no room there. Not to mention the issues with re-casting. For them to go with a Solo movie off the bat seems daft as fuck, especially when they've got the opportunity for a Vader film while James Jearl Jones is still alive (a Vader standalone will make bank, guaranteed). Like, if I were to rate Disney's priorities right now, it would be;

- Episode 8
- Vader standalone
- Boba Fett standalone (this one's easy, the guy never takes off his goddamn mask - you can cast anyone).
- Episode 9 or whatever
- Somewhere way, way, way down the list there's a Han Solo movie.

I don't know. Seeing that Vader scene in Rogue One got me super pumped for a proper Vader standalone. I mean, James Earl Jones is like 80-something and has diabetes; with all respect to the man, they need to get on that shit before he fucking dies.

 

[Saelune]

What? Ford is still alive, and Solo is a fictional character...

Ford's been pretty insistent that he never do Han Solo again; the guy's just getting too old and battered for it. He broke a toe or something filming TFA. That was a big factor in the decision to kill the character off, I believe.

I don't understand the reasoning behind a Solo movie. The guy has such a clear character arc over the three films - or the first two, at least - that a prequel feels...well, where's it gonna end up? He'll just start the film as a snarky mercenary and end it as a snarky mercenary. There's no room there. Not to mention the issues with re-casting. For them to go with a Solo movie off the bat seems daft as fuck, especially when they've got the opportunity for a Vader film while James Jearl Jones is still alive (a Vader standalone will make bank, guaranteed). Like, if I were to rate Disney's priorities right now, it would be;

- Episode 8
- Vader standalone
- Boba Fett standalone (this one's easy, the guy never takes off his goddamn mask - you can cast anyone).
- Episode 9 or whatever
- Somewhere way, way, way down the list there's a Han Solo movie.

I don't know. Seeing that Vader scene in Rogue One got me super pumped for a proper Vader standalone. I mean, James Earl Jones is like 80-something and has diabetes; with all respect to the man, they need to get on that shit before he fucking dies.

My issue is they said "The man just died...". So either they think Ford is dead, or think a fictional character deserves to be protected in death, as if there is a "too soon" effect.

As for Vader, I think we revere Vader too much, and I think, as Vader, he is better as a supporting character, not the star. While The Force Unleashed was a bait and switch since you end up a good guy, if they want to steal that plot too and have Vader use a personal assassin to hunt down escaped Jedi, Id be down, with the assassin as the protagonist. But maybe keep them evil, and have their disappearance be due to the typical attempts of usurping rather than some moral change of heart.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

As for Vader, I think we revere Vader too much, and I think, as Vader, he is better as a supporting character, not the star. While The Force Unleashed was a bait and switch since you end up a good guy, if they want to steal that plot too and have Vader use a personal assassin to hunt down escaped Jedi, Id be down, with the assassin as the protagonist. But maybe keep them evil, and have their disappearance be due to the typical attempts of usurping rather than some moral change of heart.

Ideally, the film would be told from the perspective of an ISB officer assigned to Vader as he hunts down a rag-tag bunch of misfits, or surviving Jedi, or a conspiracy within the Empire, or a rival apprentice trying to replace him. That guy would be the lens through which the audience views Vader's actions and discerns his character.

The Vader comics have a bunch of potential plot hooks. Vader Down, by itself, would be a pretty great set-piece for a film.

 

[Saelune]

As for Vader, I think we revere Vader too much, and I think, as Vader, he is better as a supporting character, not the star. While The Force Unleashed was a bait and switch since you end up a good guy, if they want to steal that plot too and have Vader use a personal assassin to hunt down escaped Jedi, Id be down, with the assassin as the protagonist. But maybe keep them evil, and have their disappearance be due to the typical attempts of usurping rather than some moral change of heart.

Ideally, the film would be told from the perspective of an ISB officer assigned to Vader as he hunts down a rag-tag bunch of misfits, or surviving Jedi, or a conspiracy within the Empire, or a rival apprentice trying to replace him. That guy would be the lens through which the audience views Vader's actions and discerns his character.

The Vader comics have a bunch of potential plot hooks. Vader Down, by itself, would be a pretty great set-piece for a film.

Really, I just want something else. We know Vader's story and I think its basically done at this point. Star Wars is a massive interesting setting, and unlike Lord of the Rings, we have the ability to canonically expand it further, and not just around characters we know, and events we know. Hell, do a time jump. We've seen Star Wars thousands of years ago in KotoR, why not go thousands of years post Death Star, and Vader, and Luke?

Part of my disappointment with TFA is I wanted new and did not get it. I got a poor retread of A New Hope. I DONT want Rey to be related to Luke AT ALL, cause again, I want new. I would find it preferable if Star Wars wasnt just about the Skywalker lineage. Im fine with Rey and Finn being new unrelated characters who are now the heroes of a new time.

Im not a fan of the status quo.

 

[Kyrian007]

I actually thought all of the CGI zombies had comically large heads. Tarkin actually looked like someone turned on a "big heads" cheat. Ditto with young Leia at the end. And the worst part of that... none of them were necessary. Red Leader it was ok with, with the helmet and being in an xwing cockpit... the CGI blended ok. But every Tarkin scene could have been either replaced with other character development scenes for Krennic or done with Tarkin in the crappy blue hologram. And young Leia at the end... it was unnecessary for her to turn around. She has an iconic look, she could have just kept staring out the observation window.

In the first movie, Tarkin has the highest rank in the Death Star, hours after the events of Rogue One. It would make more sense for him to be shown during the battle than Krennic. Either he appeared or the Imperial leaders wouldn't be focused on at all. The latter sounds fine, actually. Many war movies don't show the enemy's point of view, let alone their leaders'. What did the scenes with Tarkin and Krennic really add to the movie? Galen Erso was the important one, and we already saw him through the perspective of his daughter, so we didn't need to see him from Krennic's. Cut most of Krennic's scenes (and all of Tarkin's) and they could have focused more on the main characters, who needed more attention anyway. And I guess the Death Star might have seemed more ominous if we only saw it from the outside, like the Rebel soldiers and spies in this (sort of) war movie.

This is not a complaint, but I find it funny that this is the Star Wars movie that focuses more on the large scale battles, yet the title Star Wars does not appear anywhere in the movie.

Well, I thought the movie needed a villain like Krennic. In one way he was a perfect foil for the type of movie Rogue One was. He was a high ranking Imperial. Right at that edge of "too high ranking to pull the whole 'I was just following orders' excuse for war crimes." He wasn't responsible for Galen's death, but he did order the killing of the rest of those scientists. I thought it was interesting that we had a villain for once that was crossing that line from henchman to fellow evil-doer. It would seem that at some point going up the Imperal ladder... to advance any further you have to commit some kind of atrocity. It was interesting to see a guy actively doing that and trying to climb the ladder. That's why I thought he was needed and a good contrast to the soldiers/spies on the other side of the story. And if Tarkin was necessary (I still don't think he is, other than a line or explanation at the end that he swooped in and took control of the project post-movie,) then again just have him in the blue-holo and not that terrible CGI.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

The Vader comics have a bunch of potential plot hooks. Vader Down, by itself, would be a pretty great set-piece for a film.

That would make for an excellent short film. "All I am surrounded by is fear... And dead men".

Star Wars is a massive interesting setting, and unlike Lord of the Rings, we have the ability to canonically expand it further, and not just around characters we know, and events we know. Hell, do a time jump. We've seen Star Wars thousands of years ago in KotoR, why not go thousands of years post Death Star, and Vader, and Luke?

Problem with that is how do you do sci-fi in a sci-fi franchise? I know Star Wars is more science fantasy than anything else, but going too far into the future is always a problem for Star Wars. Look at Star Wars Legacy. Great series, but if you didn't tell me, I would have no idea whether or not it was set right after RotJ.

 

[Saelune]

The Vader comics have a bunch of potential plot hooks. Vader Down, by itself, would be a pretty great set-piece for a film.

That would make for an excellent short film. "All I am surrounded by is fear... And dead men".

Star Wars is a massive interesting setting, and unlike Lord of the Rings, we have the ability to canonically expand it further, and not just around characters we know, and events we know. Hell, do a time jump. We've seen Star Wars thousands of years ago in KotoR, why not go thousands of years post Death Star, and Vader, and Luke?

Problem with that is how do you do sci-fi in a sci-fi franchise? I know Star Wars is more science fantasy than anything else, but going too far into the future is always a problem for Star Wars. Look at Star Wars Legacy. Great series, but if you didn't tell me, I would have no idea whether or not it was set right after RotJ.

Star Wars is not Star Trek. This is something I have been thinking alot about actually, cause I want to do basically some sci-fi DnD gaming.

KotoR, set thousands! of years before the films seems unchanged, other than there being Jedi everywhere. The galaxy of Star Wars is very disjointed, and ununified. Even under the Republic or the Empire, there is little effort to unify the galaxy's tech or ways of life, so you get places that are high-tech futuristic cities of luxury, and wastelands like Tatooine. You get places with powerful laser guns, and people still running around with swords and armor.

It would be less about showing how tech has advanced, but just what the changes in the powers at hand. Maybe the Jedi Order is restored now, but not the universal power it was long ago, what new Galactic Governments are ruling? Maybe resolve smaller issues, like the issues on Mon Calamari.

It would be less about changing the universe, but more changing the players.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Part of the problems for the movie is because its one movie, so it did not have the luxury of 3 films to expand on characters. Someone had said the main girl did very little, and perhaps the film should have been painted as the group being the main characters, not just her and the guy. (I dont remember any names, but that I blame on fantasy setting names mostly)

His name was Cassian Andor, Rebel Alliance Intelligence.

Also...we revere Darth Vader too much. He literally comes down from a bath of white light (and his costume was off). His final scene also while I get was to remind you he is -supposed- to be badass, it kind of makes his opening scene in A New Hope seem like a big fail on his part, considering its like, 20 minutes after the end of the film. And that "dont choke on it" line...whoever wrote that needs to be Force Choked.

Vader's one of the biggest victims of his own popularity but honestly I thought Rogue One was a good reminder of where that popularity came in the first place. He's a stone-cold bastard and killer but he looks good while he's doing bad.

As for the 'aspirations' line, well, Vader has - especially in a current run of comics - gotten a bit of a rep for dropping sick burns.

My final real complaint is one of movies in general, rather our modern movie sensibilities. I get this was supposed to be a war movie, so I am not harping on the action-oriented aspect really, but this was definatly a "modern movie", and modern movies have no patience anymore. And can we stop treating us like idiots? Dont just placard the planet names.

That seems an ironic complaint since most people I've spoken to think the film drags too much. As for placarding the names of the planets, well, the only one they didn't do that for was Mustafar which really is the only one who's name should be self evident.

 

[Saelune]

Part of the problems for the movie is because its one movie, so it did not have the luxury of 3 films to expand on characters. Someone had said the main girl did very little, and perhaps the film should have been painted as the group being the main characters, not just her and the guy. (I dont remember any names, but that I blame on fantasy setting names mostly)

His name was Cassian Andor, Rebel Alliance Intelligence.

Also...we revere Darth Vader too much. He literally comes down from a bath of white light (and his costume was off). His final scene also while I get was to remind you he is -supposed- to be badass, it kind of makes his opening scene in A New Hope seem like a big fail on his part, considering its like, 20 minutes after the end of the film. And that "dont choke on it" line...whoever wrote that needs to be Force Choked.

Vader's one of the biggest victims of his own popularity but honestly I thought Rogue One was a good reminder of where that popularity came in the first place. He's a stone-cold bastard and killer but he looks good while he's doing bad.

As for the 'aspirations' line, well, Vader has - especially in a current run of comics - gotten a bit of a rep for dropping sick burns.

My final real complaint is one of movies in general, rather our modern movie sensibilities. I get this was supposed to be a war movie, so I am not harping on the action-oriented aspect really, but this was definatly a "modern movie", and modern movies have no patience anymore. And can we stop treating us like idiots? Dont just placard the planet names.

That seems an ironic complaint since most people I've spoken to think the film drags too much. As for placarding the names of the planets, well, the only one they didn't do that for was Mustafar which really is the only one who's name should be self evident.

I dont remember like, any of the names, even the girl's. Jan, Jen, Jin...Its one of those I think.

I dont read the comics, so going on just movies, snappy burns isnt Vader's thing. Its do what I say or die.

The original trilogy, ever so praised, is ever so patient. Some tense moments, but A New Hope in particular takes it's time.

Modern movies have no patience anymore. Some movies are too slow sure, and some older movies were too slow, but its a case by case. I just wish entertainment didnt all try to be the same at the same time. We need more Tarantino's.

For planets, well, the other films didnt do that. Obi-Wan tells Luke to go to Dagobah, Luke says hes going to Dagobah, so when he goes to a planet after, its safe to assume its friggen Dagobah.

Movies shouldnt dumb themselves down for idiots, but rather force them to exercise their brain so they arent so dumb.