"Romance novels? You mean RACIST novels, Mrs. Smith!"

[Queen Michael]

So I was just reading about Harlequin novels, also known as Mills & Boon novels. And I noticed that they have a specific imprint for novels featuring black couples, and that this imprint doesn't even get any actual printed books, only ebooks.

Isn't this extremely racist? Giving black couples their own "negro section" and not bothering to print a single book from it?

EDIT: Turns out, you can buy the books printed nowadays. I guess the Wikipedia article was outdated.

 

[Barbas]

At a glance, it appears so. Did you ask the people responsible for the decision why that was the case?

 

[Queen Michael]

At a glance, it appears so. Did you ask the people responsible for the decision why that was the case?

Gonna email them about it once I find an address.

 

[Vault101]

So I was just reading about Harlequin novels, also known as Mills & Boon novels. And I noticed that they have a specific imprint for novels featuring black couples, and that this imprint doesn't even get any actual printed books, only ebooks.

Isn't this extremely racist? Giving black couples their own "negro section" and not bothering to print a single book from it?

racist in that "we view this as a niche and will therefore *sigh* "ghettoize it" similar thing with gay/lesbian pairings

though if you think about it those kinds of novels are a bit of a literary ghetto themselves because...uhh yeah. As someone who likes F/F fiction personally I'm only interested if its of a certain quality and that basically limits my choices to one particular writer (Sara waters) and some other outliers, but whatever that kind of romance tends to be terrible anyway and I can't "gel" [footnote/]*cough* you know....[/footnote] with it if its terrible

the "good" genre fiction always seems to "transend" its genre you know?

that said I read a "kinda bad" self published F/F romance novel over the holidays only because the premise was appealing (oh no were crashed and stranded in a blizzard! lets huddle for warmth!) it was kind of fun....

At a glance, it appears so. Did you ask the people responsible for the decision why that was the case?

like I said above I think its kind of a "we think this is niche we we'll KEEP it niche" as in take no risks

similar reason the one Assasins Creed game featuring a female protagonist was a spin-off on a handheld

 

[Rabbitboy]

I don't really know what to think about black people getting their own label. But I don't think you can blame them for only releasing them as an e books if the market is to small for printed material. Although they actually have a few books in that label that can be ordered from their website as a paper back (the label is called Kimani press right?).

Edit: Actually all the ones that are exclusively available as e book came out before 2014.

 

[Vault101]

I don't really know what to think about black people getting their own label. But I don't think you can blame them for only releasing them as an e books if the market is to small for printed material..

this is kind of a chicken/egg scenario present in a lot of mainstream media though

today I read an article about the highest grossing actors/actresses in Hollywood and it was all WHITE, I don't think its because there isn't enough black talent but the root of it is there just aren't the roles, because they don't make the roles because they don't take what's perceived to be a "risk" and whats not considered "default" is so normalised anything that deviates from that is considered unessicary/different/niche/periphery and sometimes [I/]political[/I] for gods sake and because you get this "ghettoizing" people then decide "oh well they have their own thing so really there's no issue"

I'm of the believe that a lot of the time people don't know what they want until you give it too them

 

[HardkorSB]

There are black people who will go to movies just because they're "black movies".
The examples of that would be every Tyle Perry movie.
The makers of these movies know that they will get a lot of money specifically from black people, so they advertise them as such.
Here's a trailer for one of them:


Same with books I guess.
Some black people will read these books more likely if they're "black books".
The "negro section" of media exists in many places because of the demand for it (sometimes it might very well be racism but most of the time it isn't).

 

[Programmed_For_Damage]

*SNIP*

That trailer is heaps different from the one I've seen in Australia that makes absolutely no goddamn sense! I'd actually be interested in seeing this movie now. I like it how instead of having the token black man, they have the token white man.

 

[Albino Boo]

I don't really know what to think about black people getting their own label. But I don't think you can blame them for only releasing them as an e books if the market is to small for printed material..

this is kind of a chicken/egg scenario present in a lot of mainstream media though

today I read an article about the highest grossing actors/actresses in Hollywood and it was all WHITE, I don't think its because there isn't enough black talent but the root of it is there just aren't the roles, because they don't make the roles because they don't take what's perceived to be a "risk" and whats not considered "default" is so normalised anything that deviates from that is considered unessicary/different/niche/periphery and sometimes [I/]political[/I] for gods sake and because you get this "ghettoizing" people then decide "oh well they have their own thing so really there's no issue"

I'm of the believe that a lot of the time people don't know what they want until you give it too them

I strongly suggest that the article that you read had a political slant and was not factually correct. The highest grossing actor of all time is Samuel L Jackson at $7.4 billion

http://www.theguardian.com/film/filmblog/2011/oct/28/samuel-l-jackson-highest-grossing

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/samuel-l-jackson-highest-grossing-actor-guinness-book-world-records-254155

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/07/showbiz/movies/avengers-samuel-l-jackson-grossing-ew/

http://www.businessinsider.com/samuel-l-jackson-is-the-highest-grossing-actor-ever-2012-4?IR=T

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/26/jackson_n_1033049.html

 

[Vault101]

I strongly suggest that the article that you read had a political slant and was not factually correct. The highest grossing actor of all time is Samuel L Jackson at $7.4 billion

huh...so he is

I still stand by the original point though

 

[Thaluikhain]

I don't really know what to think about black people getting their own label. But I don't think you can blame them for only releasing them as an e books if the market is to small for printed material..

this is kind of a chicken/egg scenario present in a lot of mainstream media though

today I read an article about the highest grossing actors/actresses in Hollywood and it was all WHITE, I don't think its because there isn't enough black talent but the root of it is there just aren't the roles, because they don't make the roles because they don't take what's perceived to be a "risk" and whats not considered "default" is so normalised anything that deviates from that is considered unessicary/different/niche/periphery and sometimes [I/]political[/I] for gods sake and because you get this "ghettoizing" people then decide "oh well they have their own thing so really there's no issue"

I'm of the believe that a lot of the time people don't know what they want until you give it too them

There is an element of that, but then there's common or garden racism as well. For example, when they cast a black girl as Rue in the Hunger Games, there was a huge outcry, despite Rue being black in the books.

But yeah, going against the default is seen as a conscious act, one that immediately will have question asked as to why.

 

[NPC009]

There is an element of that, but then there's common or garden racism as well. For example, when they cast a black girl as Rue in the Hunger Games, there was a huge outcry, despite Rue being black in the books.

Wait, what? I admit I haven't even seen the first movie yet (only read the books), but the Rue I saw in the trailers was pretty much exactly like the way I imagined she looked. A tiny black girl with an innocent face, sweet and a bit shy. You know, the way Katniss discribed her.

 

[Vault101]

There is an element of that, but then there's common or garden racism as well. For example, when they cast a black girl as Rue in the Hunger Games, there was a huge outcry, despite Rue being black in the books.

But yeah, going against the default is seen as a conscious act, one that immediately will have question asked as to why.

aparently there is a sub-set of Harry Potter fandom who are UTTERLY CONVINCED "Cho Chang" isn't actually asian and is just adopted or somthing because SHE'S SCOTTISH!! AND YOU CAN'T BE SCOTTISH AND ASAIN!

...yeeaaahhh

in the case of Rue mabye people didn't pick up on the fat she was black, defaulted her to white (as we often do I admit) and then lost their shit when the movie DARE go against their vision in what [i/]clearly[/i] was some PC bullshit because a charachter can't be "other" unless its really fucking obvious

[sub/]this was actually an interesting point that came up in regards to Korrasami that people are fine with "gay" (or whatever) untill they encounter it where they don't expect it[/sub]

it is racism but since its not "obvious" to some people they don't see it that way

 

[Thaluikhain]

There is an element of that, but then there's common or garden racism as well. For example, when they cast a black girl as Rue in the Hunger Games, there was a huge outcry, despite Rue being black in the books.

Wait, what? I admit I haven't even seen the first movie yet (only read the books), but the Rue I saw in the trailers was pretty much exactly like the way I imagined she looked. A tiny black girl with an innocent face, sweet and a bit shy. You know, the way Katniss discribed her.

http://jezebel.com/5896408/racist-hunger-games-fans-dont-care-how-much-money-the-movie-made

Some of the comments...yeah...

in the case of Rue mabye people didn't pick up on the fat she was black, defaulted her to white (as we often do I admit) and then lost their shit when the movie DARE go against their vision in what [i/]clearly[/i] was some PC bullshit because a charachter can't be "other" unless its really fucking obvious

Yeah, it's not mentioned much in the books, it's not repeated over and over to make sure we know she's not default. So people somehow missed that.

it is racism but since its not "obvious" to some people they don't see it that way

Of course, racism is only ever something other people do, if it exists at all.

 

[sanquin]

Firstly, always take Wikipedia with a grain of salt. Although it's a highly reliable source of information as far as the internet goes, it's still written by other users. And you don't know what other users.

Secondly, if the market is deemed too small for a book, it's logical to only release it in e-book form. Printing costs money. That being said, thinking a book will sell far less because there's a black couple in it is making assumptions at best, and racist at worst. Luckily they apparently released it in book form already.

 

[Rabbitboy]

EDIT: Turns out, you can buy the books printed nowadays. I guess the Wikipedia article was outdated.

It's not something you can only do "nowadays", they are just out of print. Look a few of them up on Amazon and you will see them available in print.

Also some free advice. If you are getting information from Wikipedia check the sources.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

I suppose I will be that token person who points out that this is a reaction to a culture rather than a case of racism from the publishers.

For better or for worse the publishers care only for money, each and every action made by any business can be explained by the phrase "they did this because they thought it would make more money."
If they believed they would make more money from selling the books in hard copy rather than e-books, then they would do so. The fact that they don't is almost certainly because they assumed the market would be smaller for romance novels featuring black characters than they would be for white characters. And this assumption is either based on market research or just plain old stupidity, and if I had to put money on it I would probably go for the first option.

If it is true that black romance novels sell worse than white ones, that is an element of society and culture, not an issue we should be laying at the feet of this publisher.

 

[Lilani]

So I was just reading about Harlequin novels, also known as Mills & Boon novels. And I noticed that they have a specific imprint for novels featuring black couples, and that this imprint doesn't even get any actual printed books, only ebooks.

Isn't this extremely racist? Giving black couples their own "negro section" and not bothering to print a single book from it?

EDIT: Turns out, you can buy the books printed nowadays. I guess the Wikipedia article was outdated.

I would guess these novels came into being the same way black fraternities and sororities came into being--not long ago, the only way for black people to be involved in those things was to make their own. One only has to glance at the romance section of a bookstore to see how pasty white the genre tends to be. So black authors, or authors who are aware of this discrepancy, or simply authors who want to write about black people would naturally see this as an opening to make their own. Netflix has a section devoted just to gay and lesbian films and shows, but that's less out of homophobia and more out of trying to make sure the group is represented and those looking for those things can be found. But of course that can also be read as segregating gay and lesbian shows from the rest, so it's a win/lose in a way.

I don't think I'd go so far as to call it racist on the level of the author, people write what they know so I think it's only natural for authors to favor people like them, whatever color they might be. But I wouldn't be surprised if black authors have more trouble getting their romance, fantasy, sci fi, or other book in a predominantly white genre published. The reason JK Rowling wrote her name like that instead of her full name on the Harry Potter books is because the books were written to appeal to young boys, and boys and men are less likely to pick up a book they know nothing about if they know it was written by a woman. Like with the racism thing, I'm sure this has less to do with sexism and more to do with readers looking for something they can relate to. But it's still a thing that affects authors at a publishing level, and like everything else when demographics and expectations get set it's hard to break those barriers.

 

[Thaluikhain]

For better or for worse the publishers care only for money, each and every action made by any business can be explained by the phrase "they did this because they thought it would make more money."

In theory, yes, in practice, no. Businesses are run by people who are just as much members of society as everyone else, full of the same biases and prejudices.

 

[Cidward]

So I was just reading about Netflix has a section devoted just to gay and lesbian films and shows, but that's less out of homophobia and more out of trying to make sure the group is represented and those looking for those things can be found. But of course that can also be read as segregating gay and lesbian shows from the rest, so it's a win/lose in a way.

Given the way Netflix tagging and aggregation works, is it really a "section," or one many tags a film is assigned for targeted user recommendations? If I watch a lot of gay and lesbian movies, for examples, "Milk" might come up in that section of my recommendations. But if I watch a lot of political dramas or historical dramas, it might come up on that list, because it also contains tags that are pertinent to those genres.

There aren't a lot of comedies and dramas with lead gay characters that aren't rather specifically about gay issues, which is unfortunate and limits how those films could be categorized, but I think that's a different problem than segregation within an aggregation program.