Russia, Azerbaijan, and Armenia sign peace deal, Armenians unhappy

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crimson5pheonix

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For the past while Azerbaijan with Turkey's help invaded Armenia. Now a peace treaty has been signed, but it cedes a lot of Armenian land to what are a bunch of invaders. Armenians haven't taken it well.


Note: He did not get lynched, he did get beat though, apparently.
 

Gergar12

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There is a saying by my International Relations Teacher, the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.

Sad day for Armenia, but it's the right thing to do. Otherwise, there would be more bloodshed, and more dead on both sides, but mostly on Armenia, that's what happens when you cede the tech advantage to the other side.
 

Neuromancer

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There is a saying by my International Relations Teacher, the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
At least someone has read Thucydides.

OT: This conflict has been going on since the fall of the USSR. I don't think this peace treaty will mean the end of bloodshed. Unfortunately, Armenia remains politically isolated, and I am not sure if there is anything that it can do to actually help its people. What a shit situation.
 
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Revnak

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For the past while Azerbaijan with Turkey's help invaded Armenia. Now a peace treaty has been signed, but it cedes a lot of Armenian land to what are a bunch of invaders. Armenians haven't taken it well.


Note: He did not get lynched, he did get beat though, apparently.
Firstly, fuck Partisan Girl, but secondly, fuck the Turks and their bullshit. No more Turkey, society has progressed past the need for Turkey.
 
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Samtemdo8

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Firstly, fuck Partisan Girl, but secondly, fuck the Turks and their bullshit. No more Turkey, society has progressed past the need for Turkey.
Wow, you sound like you want tanks and planes to roll over Turkey right now
 

Revnak

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Wow, you sound like you want tanks and planes to roll over Turkey right now
No. I wish to end the concept of the Turkish nation. Raw force would be insufficient in achieving that goal.
 

Agema

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Armenia basically has nothing. A small population, few resources, and it's surrounded by relatively hostile nations. It's only substantial potential ally is Russia, and Russia's going to be a lot more interested in maintaining influence over the whole area, which isn't be achieved by backing the least popular kid on the block. It seems to be a relatively well run country, but that's not enough to make up for its truly awful geopolitical position.
 
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09philj

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For the past while Azerbaijan with Turkey's help invaded Armenia. Now a peace treaty has been signed, but it cedes a lot of Armenian land to what are a bunch of invaders. Armenians haven't taken it well.
It's a bit more complicated than that. The area is (or was) ruled by an unrecognised republic which unilaterally declared independence from The Soviet Union/Azerbaijan back in '91, which triggered a mass exodus of Azerbaijanis from the region. The Republic of Artsakh is allied with Armenia because it's majority ethnic group is Armenian, and is de facto part of Armenia, but has always been internationally recognised as Azerbaijani and is an enclave wholly within Azerbaijan's borders. The anger in Armenia over the loss of territory is understandable, but realistically they were never likely to be able to retain it since they were militarily outmatched by the Azerbaijanis, and no outside aid was likely to be forthcoming since trying to stop Azerbaijan from exercising control over what is agreed to be it's own territory would definitely be illegal.

Most concerning is an increasingly hawkish Turkey that looks likely to start encouraging more border conflicts between their allies and enemies, and their are plenty to choose from given the chaotic legacy of European and Soviet imperialism in the near and middle east.
 

Iron

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Holy shit Armenia got demolished. They even managed to secure a land-connection between Baku and the enclave between Armenia and Turkey.
 

Dreiko

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The wording here is weird, does it "cede" the land that was not theirs but which they lived on? Does that count as "ceding" really? Or did they take over actual Armenian land on top of the land they were fighting over which was theirs already but just inhabited by ethnic Armenians?

Cause like...this is what people wish to do with Israel , right? Give the land back to the palestinian people who lived there before the west (in this case the Soviet union under Stalin) gave the recent (but with a claim of historic ownership) residents?



But yeah I grew up with a ton of anti-Turkish propaganda so I will not pretend to be objective here. To my eyes they will always be like white people are to the slavebreeds until they give back Constantinopole and get the hell out of Cyprus lol.
 

Gergar12

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Firstly, fuck Partisan Girl, but secondly, fuck the Turks and their bullshit. No more Turkey, society has progressed past the need for Turkey.
But Turkey is a check on Iran, without Turkey we would only have Israel, and incompetent Saudis to check them.
 

09philj

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But Turkey is a check on Iran, without Turkey we would only have Israel, and incompetent Saudis to check them.
Well, there's also Pakistan, but Pakistan is only capable of devising foreign policy interventions that make things worse, rather than better.
 

Agema

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Well, there's also Pakistan, but Pakistan is only capable of devising foreign policy interventions that make things worse, rather than better.
Pakistan has zero meaningful influence whatsoever except over Afghanistan, which is just about the world's worst middle of nowhere. Afghanistan is such that it's virtually a both no-go area for anyone (including, tragically, many Afghans themselves), and has little or nothing worth occupying. It's virtually an impassable terrain, like Switzerland in your average WW2 board/computer game.
 

stroopwafel

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Pakistan has zero meaningful influence whatsoever except over Afghanistan, which is just about the world's worst middle of nowhere. Afghanistan is such that it's virtually a both no-go area for anyone (including, tragically, many Afghans themselves), and has little or nothing worth occupying. It's virtually an impassable terrain, like Switzerland in your average WW2 board/computer game.
Yeah, but Pakistan is a nuclear power thanks to AQ Khan with an intelligence service of unknown allegiance. That alone makes the border dispute with Kashmir a tricky one despite Pakistan being a dwarf in comparison. Not to mention the madrassas and the tribal areas full of jihadis and the real risk the country might one day be overthrown with the help of ISI. Afghanistan might be the middle of nowhere ISI's support of former mullah Omar and the Taliban and their long history there and the problems it caused for the rest of the world is an ill omen.