Salutatorian forced to change her graduation speech, is praised for doing so

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Darren716

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Jul 7, 2011
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First some background, my class's salutatorian is deeply religious due to her parents being devout Christians her entire life so she often tries to spread the word of god and denounces much of science, for example she believes the earth is only 6000 years old. She is very smart though and is compassionate, possibly one of the nicest and upbeat people I've ever met. So on Saturday during my graduation she went up to the podium to give her speech and said that what she was about to say wasn't her original speech because the school board forced her to change her speech due to some messages she put in it telling people that all that they achieved was because of god and because she directly quoted the bible in her speech. Her new speech still had a large amount of references to god (one of my friends said he counted about 20 mentions throughout the speech). Shortly there after people began saying that it wasn't right to censor her original speech, and that the girl was so brave for sticking up for what she believed in. In the local paper the following Monday, when normally the front page article about graduation would feature the valedictorian and a simple headline about the graduation, this one a large picture of the salutatorian and the headline "Class of 2014 stand up for what you believe in." A local radio station also invited her on to say her original speech which featured a message from god to all of the graduating class.

I have been fed up about this ever since Saturday because of how many people in the city I live in can't comprehend the idea of separating the church from a public high school that is funded by the government. I can't even count the amount of people I saw on Facebook trying to say how this was a violation of free speech whilst they ignore another part of the first amendment saying how there will not be a national religion established which is in part what the salutatorian was trying to do in her original speech by saying that only her god was right and that he was the reason we achieved what we did. It also irks me how people are calling for the school boards heads when they were only trying to do their job and make sure people of different beliefs or no belief weren't going to be offended instead of pretending it's the 50's and that only Christians or Catholics matter. Also for a bit of clarity its not like I live in the Bible Belt or something I live in upstate New York where we should be more understanding that other religions exist and that people who don't have a religion also exist.

Now that that's out of my system what does the escapist think about this?
 

PainInTheAssInternet

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Dec 30, 2011
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The school is not excluding the existence of other religions. If another religion tried to go up and that got more negative attention than this, there would certainly be a case for anger. EDIT: Well enough people have said it so I may as well throw my hand in. If she wasn't Christian, she wouldn't have gotten such a warm reception.

I'd say that people should be permitted to express their views in public areas as long as they are not officially endorsed, especially not one religion over another. EDIT People can still form their own opinions and respond in turn without fear of official retribution just like her. It might even stimulate conversation about personal beliefs amongst the peers. I don't think she's deserving of all the praise, though.

Incidentally, the title is misleading. It sounds like she is being congratulated for following the order to change her speech, not rebelling against that order.

EDIT This may belong in Religion and Politics.
 

Fappy

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While I imagine I find "thank God" speeches to be as droll as you do (believe me on this, there are stories I could tell) I think the girl deserves all the praise she gets. Was anything she said inflammatory or hateful? I wasn't there, but I very much doubt it. As someone with a degree in Journalism, I was pretty much taught to be a die-hard First Amendment protector and will always feel that public schools trying to censor their students is wrong (unless it can be classified as hate speech). I have been on the receiving end of school censorship both in my High School and in my college years. It sucks.

Does she deserve heaping praise from everyone? I wouldn't go that far, but I commend her for standing up for her beliefs.
 

Colour Scientist

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Jul 15, 2009
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I think the situation would be different if she were a member of staff or representing the school in an official capacity but it doesn't appear to me that she is.

I'm completely in favour of secular education but she's a student representing her own beliefs in a speech, I don't see that as being too problematic, even if I personally don't think that kind of stuff belongs in a public forum.

I don't see her as being particularly brave for what she did but I don't think she should have been censored in the first place. Suggesting that her class only got where they are because of God is cringe-y and I'm sure a lot of people would object but she's not doing any real damage by saying it, at least not that I can see.
 

HardkorSB

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Darren716 said:
she believes the earth is only 6000 years old.
Darren716 said:
She is very smart
Does not compute...

As for the people complaining about her "freedom of speech", why not try to get a devout Muslim to do a similar speech next year and see how pro-free speech the people really are.
 

twistedmic

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I can kind of understand the school board's side of things. They may have feared that the original 'Everything you have accomplished is because of God' speech could offend other people (especially given how big a *****-fit people threw over the Pledge of Allegiance, The Ten Commandments outside of Courthouses and even 'In God We Trust' printed on American money) and asked/told the girl to change her speech as a precaution.
 

DefunctTheory

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Mar 30, 2010
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Separation of Church and State means that the State cannot endorse any religion, or make policy/law in respect to any religion. It does not mean that everyone that falls under the purview of the State (In this case, a student) is banned from open, public speech about religion.

Student's are citizens who are being rendered a service by the state (being taught), not employees or part of the State. As such, they can say whatever they want, and the State cannot do a damn thing about it. Nor should they be able to.

As for the student... the amount of praise may be a bit much. It was a good thing and all, but it wasn't like the school was going to literally throw her under a bus if she didn't comply.

Besides, it was a learning experience, her speech. Nothing alienates normal people from religion more then being told God is responsible for all your success, and that your basically just an ant that's only allowed to have skills because some higher power deemed it so. I can feel the notion of secular government growing as I type!
 

duwenbasden

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Jan 18, 2012
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>telling people that all that they achieved was because of god

That's why a lesson in PR is in order. I am perfectly fine with the speech as long as it is clear the speech is only about her. However, you must tread carefully the moment you implicate other people in your speech who may not share your views. People generally don't like when you drag them into your conversations. Both sides are to blame here: the board for handling this situation poorly; and the salutatorian for not thinking about the context of her speech.
 

Darren716

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HardkorSB said:
Darren716 said:
she believes the earth is only 6000 years old.
Darren716 said:
She is very smart
Does not compute...

As for the people complaining about her "freedom of speech", why not try to get a devout Muslim to do a similar speech next year and see how pro-free speech the people really are.
She is actually intelligent she is in the highest level of honor's classes, I think her final average was a 97, so she has a fairly good brain on her and is able to do well in school but I think she learns what she needs to to do well but doesn't really take it to heart. Also your comment of "what if a Muslim did something similar" was the exact thing I though when I saw people saying that there was nothing wrong with her speech.
 

Ryotknife

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I certainly cant fault the school for trying to head off a potential @$%$ storm (especially since the school administrations are spineless), so long as they didnt threaten her. Although the amount of praise she is getting is a bit too much.

EDIT: looks like she is not the only one. A salutatorian in California also had his speeches denied, although it looks like his were a bit lighter (ie, no "everything you have accomplished is through God").
 

Aramis Night

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How does someone who believes the earth is 6000 years old pass an earth science class, let alone graduate as a salutatorian? If this is how low the standards are, I could only assume you would have to be in a coma to not be able to graduate from this school. Good to know that New York is the place to go for easy A's. Educational standards seem to have really fallen since my day.
 

DefunctTheory

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Aramis Night said:
How does someone who believes the earth is 6000 years old pass an earth science class, let alone graduate as a salutatorian? If this is how low the standards are, I could only assume you would have to be in a coma to not be able to graduate from this school. Good to know that New York is the place to go for easy A's. Educational standards seem to have really fallen since my day.
Or, she could, you know, have 'lied' on all her test.

Passing a test only requires that you know what the test giver want's the answers to be, not that you believe them.
 

Aramis Night

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AccursedTheory said:
Aramis Night said:
How does someone who believes the earth is 6000 years old pass an earth science class, let alone graduate as a salutatorian? If this is how low the standards are, I could only assume you would have to be in a coma to not be able to graduate from this school. Good to know that New York is the place to go for easy A's. Educational standards seem to have really fallen since my day.
Or, she could, you know, have 'lied' on all her test.

Passing a test only requires that you know what the test giver want's the answers to be, not that you believe them.
*Gasp* Maybe high school does prepare you for adulthood after all.
 

Ryotknife

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Aramis Night said:
How does someone who believes the earth is 6000 years old pass an earth science class, let alone graduate as a salutatorian? If this is how low the standards are, I could only assume you would have to be in a coma to not be able to graduate from this school. Good to know that New York is the place to go for easy A's. Educational standards seem to have really fallen since my day.
maybe...she didnt take earth science? I know when i was in high school earth science was kinda a joke class, meant for those who werent very good at science or had no ambition in science. I went Biology -> Chemistry -> Physics -> AP science (in my case chemistry)

Also, other than Massachusetts, NY probably has one of the higher grades in education.

EDIT: okay, NY is apparently 12th, being beaten by Texas and Virginia....well that is embarrassing

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/articles/2014/04/21/how-states-compare-in-the-2014-best-high-schools-rankings
 

SirDerpy

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Well, what's there to praise again?

I'm kind of confused as to why she's receiving this praise in the first place. I mean, it was probably bad of the School to censor her, although I won't get into the PR and crap, but...why is she getting praise?

She has actually done nothing of note. You're supposed to follow the orders of superiors, and she did that. If she protested and had grounds for doing so ("Free speech! You can't take it away!"), she could probably be praised for standing up for her rights, but she hasn't actually done anything sufficiently...I suppose heroic is a good word? To warrant any sort of praise.
 

Eddie the head

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In the end she dose have the right to say whatever she want's. I do see where the school is coming form as a Salutatorian speech shouldn't isolate people but she can if she want's.
 

Signa

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Actually, if I was in that graduating class, I might be pissed if her speech was worded that way. I worked hard to graduate, and God had nothing to do with it. He might have put me on this earth, but I'm here because of my efforts, not his grace. Her speech would have been devaluing my efforts, and that's a big "fuck you" from the person who outdid me in their grades. At best, it's still implying that God loves her more because we all got there through God, but she was loved more by God, so she was the Salutatorian.
 

Veylon

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What did she do that was praiseworthy here? At best, she's a victim of censorship and at worst complicit. Coming forward once all official consequence is past to the adulation of her peers is not indicative of moral backbone. It doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't have it, it's just not required here.

If she'd, say, agreed to change her speech and then not only stuck to the original but outed her would-be censors, that would be praiseworthy. Sure, they could shut her down and drag her off the stage, but at least then they'd have to openly defend their actions instead of browbeating her into compliance behind closed doors.
 

Dark Knifer

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I wonder what can and can't be censored at these speeches. I can sort of get censoring the whole éverything you do isn't you its god' on a graduation night, because that happened at mine and it pissed me off but I bet you couldn't make a speech with stuff like "God isn't real we are all alone her type of thing.

It sounds like they just wanted a generic event with minimal controversy but I'm not sure if they should be allowed to censor people or not, even though its a formal presentation that they need to look good for. Although it sounds like they politely asked rather then forced her to change but that could be wrong.