Schafer needs a boss, else Double fine's screwed.

[Jon Jon]

Tim Schafer is in many ways one of the leading creative figures in video games, and as someone who is begging for more big name talent in this industry I praise him and his teams? efforts in the past on their endeavours to create some really stand out titles. However Double Fine and Schafer have a history of having too much vision and not enough focus. Their games run way over budget, they rarely meet deadlines and in the most recent incident they've had to scale back projects as they wandered off a cliff staring to the heavens of their aspirations.

All of this we've largely not seen up until the debacles with Broken age and Space base DF-9, two games that have for the most part, annihilated trust in Double Fine as an indie and Schafer as a director. It especially stings because now we can kind of see where companies like Activison and suits like Bobby Kotick are coming from when they clamp down on Double fine, because we the consumers put our money in their hands, expected what was promised and they turned up short.

To quote Kotick "He missed all the milestones, missed all the deadlines, as Tim has a reputation of doing." I understand the gut reaction to dismiss a man who has a reputation to say fairly unsavoury things, but really think what one of the heads of the second biggest publish has stated there, ?Has a reputation of doing? now if Kotick of all people is saying Schafer has a problem with budgets and deadlines, then the guy has a problem, he'll deal with thousands of deadlines, employ a lot of studios and given his history as a CEO he?ll know when an employee is mishandling a budget.

For me I think it comes down to the management, specifically Schafer, and as talented as Schafer is, like George Lucas, he needs someone watching over him because looking at his track record, he's horrible at time and resource management. Good with words, bad with numbers so to speak.

This doesn't mean Double fine and Schafer need to fall back into the clutches of Activision and EA, for there was a time when Schafer had the autonomy to write what he wished, and the oversight to meet his deadlines. That time, was his employment at Lucas arts, not to say it was entirely smooth sailing their but his games came out on time, stayed in their budget and were still good. Grim fandango, Day of the tentacle, Monkey Island and Full throttle all realised what Schafer set out with them and stayed safely in budget because he wasn't in charge of the numbers.

So I posit to double fine to get a good producer on board with their next project to keep their sights set on the bigger picture, else Double Fine's Indy dream may crumble before it's very eyes.

A few links to show what I?m rambling about:
(http://www.destructoid.com/double-fine-ceasing-development-on-sci-fi-sim-spacebase-df-9-281565.phtml)
(http://www.gamespot.com/articles/broken-age-needs-more-money-says-double-fine/1100-6411020/)

 

[DrOswald]

Tim Schafer is a idea man. Unfortunately, idea men usually have big ideas and lots of ideas. They tend to lack the discipline required to focus their ideas into a good product. They go over budget and fail to complete their projects. Many people don't like to hear this, but the best game developers often need a producer to hold the leash. I don't like Activision or EA, but if Schafer can't handle it then better Schafer under Kotick than Schafer on his own.

 

[Qitz]

Had this same thought as well. Schafer is great when it comes to ideas, he can stay on as the head developer and idea man but when it comes to finances and time-lines, he needs someone whose in the position to tell him "No" and have that be that.

Sure, his employees could bring up a point but when your boss says "We're doing it this way, period." you don't say "I don't think that's a good idea because [reasons]" you say "Alright, I'll see what I can do." You can only try to convince them for so long / so hard.

Comparing current Broken Age with the one that was proposed and you can see, Schafer let the new resources and assets he could afford get to his head. Feature creep hit him like a truck and the game had to be split to save it. If he had someone telling him "No, we don't need to redo the art work" or "No, Elijah Woods is good but we can make due with someone else" the game would have came out complete and people would be happy.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Many people don't like to hear this, but the best game developers often need a producer to hold the leash.

You've got it in a nutshell. Schafer is the kind of guy who can't stop saying "wouldn't it be neat if". At some point you have to say "that's it, now let's iron out what we've got" and that is apparently not something Tim feels comfortable with doing himself.

As a creative-type person, I can honestly say that often, we creative-type people can use the help of realist-type people to rein us in.

 

[Jandau]

Well, duh. But heaven forbid you suggested anything of the sort a year or two ago, you'd get crucified publicly. Double Fine either needs a publisher or they need to bring someone in to reign them in a bit. I didn't give 2 shits about Broken Age, even less when I saw they were making it kinda-episodic. It was the first sign that they weren't up to the task of actually finalizing a product. I was actually interested in Spacebase, and the way it was shoved out of the game it pathetic, cementing my view that Double Fine isn't capable of making actual games (as in finished products) at this point. It also deflated my hopes for Massive Chalice.

I don't mind them doing their thing, a lot of gamers are willing to look past their shortcomings and enjoy the ideas they bring to the table. But I've gotten grumpy and picky in my old age and like a bit of polish and craftsmanship on my games. I'm glad they exist, because there should be a place for creativity in the industry. I just won't be buying any of their stuff any time soon, at least until they get the production side of their work straightened out one way or another...

 

[Daft Ada]

You're spot on. This industry, like all creative mediums, is full of wonderful creative types with grand ideas and no business sense. Molyneux, Schafer, the Stamper bros, even Miyamoto. Corporate types like Kotick get a lot of flack but they have a difficult job to do too and at the end of the day they have to ensure a company is profitable.

 

[AlouetteSK]

Curious question: How much parallel can we draw with Schafer and Romero in this aspect?

 

[Denamic]

The industry needs people like him. Even if his ideas don't always work out, he does bring new or outright weird things to the table. And sometimes, he strikes gold. We can't have an industry only doing what is proven to work.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

The industry needs people like him. Even if his ideas don't always work out, he does bring new or outright weird things to the table. And sometimes, he strikes gold. We can't have an industry only doing what is proven to work.

Yeah the industry needs visionaries, it also needs management to keep the visionaries from flying too close to the sun. Someone has to be the "bad guy" at the end of the day, the one who says "this is where we stop, this is our deadline. This is where we need to get, and this is when." Without someone to be the brake, the vehicle will surely crash and burn.
Ok enough of analogies. Ideas are great, pushing boundaries is nice but there has to be an end goal and a limit. Too much too fast will ultimately fail or never live up to the hype.
Some people aren't happy with publishers "interfering" with the creative process but in all honesty someone has to make an accounting for the investors money. And that includes Kickstarter projects. So many of these guys think they have what it takes but are poor at management, poor at honestly assessing what they can and can't do with their budgets and deadlines.
Like it or not, the publishers are the braking mechanism for most developers. Without someone managing things (and someone with business acumen and experience) a company is more likely to fail before they ever produce anything of worth.
The best example of ambitious failures has to be Curt Schilling. Piss poor management led to the death of a promising developer and series. Amalur was an interesting world that was killed by someone who really had no business running the company.
Writers need editors and deadlines as do filmmakers so why is it that game devs are seen as these special snowflakes that the rules don't apply to?
Its one thing when you're funding your own ambitious indie project, you're welcome to waste as much time as you want because its your money. Once someone else's money is involved you are obligated to make damn sure you're not wasting it.
And at the end of the day, game devs have to be accountable to their audience, their fans. If you're constantly putting out ambitious projects and failing to meet a deadline or worse turn the whole project into vaporware, then you run the risk of alienating the people who ultimately make you more money. Without the consumer, there is no paycheck at the end of the line.
Great example: had Duke Nukem Forever not taken 13 years to be released, it may have sold better and regarded not as a failure. The delay alone drove a lot of fans away and by the time it was released times had changed and Duke just wasn't cool anymore.
People can hold Schafer up as this pinnacle of awesomeness but in the end if he doesn't buckle down and apply the brakes when they're needed, he's running a huge risk of alienating the people who have supported him.
Ambition is great but it isn't enough. There has to be a director and there has to be a boss and it can't be the visionary.

EDIT: Remember the hubris of Romero. Just because he was part of the team that made DOOM, doesn't mean he was a god of developing and managing a company. Post Daikatana, his stock went in the toilet and he's not produced anything of significance since. Hubris killed Icarus and it sunk Romero.

 

[ElMinotoro]

I don't think I disagree with anyone in this forum. I've actually thought this for ages, even backing Broken Age (or Double Fine Adventure, as it was known) and buying Spacebase on early access. I have been giving DF benefit of the doubt due to the pedigree. Like many of us, Schaeffer was instrumental in my childhood and I want him to produce something that recaptures that feeling. But no more funds for something in progress. DF is going to need to produce something and something worthwhile before they see another dollar from me and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.
Dude needs to hire a business manager and then listen to him.

 

[Amaror]

I aggree at least partially.
Schaeffer seems to be horrible with money. Broken Age part 1 ist just one famous voice after the other, often just for very few sentences and that's it. Don't get me wrong these people are good at voice acting, but there are plenty of voice actors that would have been just as good that wouldn't have cost them so much money to hire.

But i don't think this has to be applied to every indie dev. There are plenty of devs out there that came from a kickstarter and are doing very well. There is a method that i particulary like to keep things in check, so to say.
The devs of Stoneheart for example publish a dev diary every week. This gives them regular one-week deadlines were they have to finish their work on things if they want to show it to their audience, which are the people that invested in the kickstarter.
Tynan Silvester from Rimworld does something similar. He has a open changelog were he describes all the changes he makes to the game every day.
With these techniques the kickstarter backers have a good way to keep taps of the devs and see that they actually do the work they are suppossed to do.

 

[Furbyz]

He actually did hire a business manager awhile back (a bit before Broken Age Act I came out). That guy managed to squeeze blood from a stone and secured them a few million to bring Brutal Legend into some new markets. It was likely his idea to split Broken Age, which was the only way they'd have gotten it done. It's been a good while since I've seen the pertinent documentary episodes, but I want to say they had already sunk a good deal of their own money in at that point (from the aforementioned Brutal Legend cash).

I don't think the voice cast was really a bad decision as the bigger names are also a draw of their own. I guarantee Elijah Wood brought in people that wouldn't have otherwise bought the game. Considering that a sizable portion of the people who buy adventure games had already backed it, bringing in new people with some big names was probably a sound decision.

But after that DF has missed their deadline's and despite Tim's claims that Act II had been more than fully funded by the sales of Broken Age, I have to wonder at the veracity of that statement. He'd probably be right if they'd hit the initial deadline for Act II...which was 5 months ago. I am now officially not believing a release date until I see it pop up on Steam.

There hasn't been much in the way of documentary episodes lately either. All I know about where they are right now is that Shay's half of Act II is nearly finished except for some cut scene animation (lip flaps, arm movements, etc.) that they contract out to a 3rd party and the team is now focusing on Vella's parts.

I like Double Fine. I like Tim. I wish this was a world where he had unlimited resources and a great dev team to just make whatever crazy awesome thing he wanted, but it's not. He's got his head in the clouds or in his notebooks and just keeps tripping into every ditch that crosses his path. I hope for the best with them, but I worry that if things don't go right, they'll crash and burn. Something I know for a fact Tim worries about too.